Mafiabob Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Nice to have options up top..... All have to fight..... Rowett finally showed not fussed in making a change or two. Lets hope it's a good fight and all are firing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarterForTen Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Can't help but think Martin will be gone by September 1st. Johnny Russell too for that matter. Just got a feeling Rowett is very keen for it to be different and we'll see a couple of saleable assets leave in order to get three or four more in. Plus they'll be some we can't sell that get loaned out at our cost just to get them out of the training ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollycutts1982 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 36 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said: Sorry ollycutts but this grinds my gears a bit. Why is it every time we win or something positive happens the other team "weren't brilliant" "offered very little". Could it be that we had something to do with that? (nothing personal by the way ) No offence taken, I offer my opinion and take others on board, that is what makes the forum what it is and ultimately we all want Derby to do well. I guess, without sounding like a manager, I didn't get too down after the first two games the same as I wont get too carried away after Tuesday. I was disappointed after Saturday which soon turned to anticipation and excitement for Tuesday, I wont lie I was a little deflated at half time but the second half was a marked improvement, it is my belief that this was partly down to playing higher up the pitch. We have a tough game Saturday followed by another tough game. I always try to judge us after 10ish games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddy Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 9 minutes ago, cheron85 said: Your opinions on Chris Martin are well known - And mostly seem to come along with a bad smell - Soooooo No-one is saying build a team around him - What we saw in the first two games was that our CF was way too isolated and no-one was getting close to him to receive the ball - You can't head the ball to people who aren't there and you can't hold the ball up indefinitely - The very very best hold up players can do it for maybe 5-10 seconds 4-3-3 is what Rowett started with for 2 out of the 4 games so far - It is the formation he thought suited the squad against stringer opposition - We have played a whole game (1 whole game - WOW!) not playing 4-3-3 so suggesting it's "dead" under Rowett is odd End of last season GR tried a system with Nugent + Vydra as a 10 and it worked [I remember Vydra saying it was good playing a position that suites his style, then GR changes it again. And this season gone back to 4-3-3 to try Martin up there as a 9. Martin is not a Carroll, he needs the ball to feet and players linking up around him, we simply dont have those runners in midfield any more, if anything our midfield is now more pedestrian -the opposite of 2013/14. Keep Martin for the bench, will he be happy being a bit player, dont know.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zag zig Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 12 minutes ago, Mafiabob said: Nice to have options up top..... All have to fight..... Rowett finally showed not fussed in making a change or two. Lets hope it's a good fight and all are firing. Plenty have bemoaned the lack of options other years, where was plan b etc. Now we are starting to see Rowett will change things around to suit games or form. Its possibly easier to drop Martin, as he never signed him, be interesting to see if he does the same to Davis if he drops a few ricketts or Huddlestone should avsystem suit 1 CDM and Thorne is fit. All still makes your last sentence real valid, Martin has to fight for his place now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, toddy said: End of last season GR tried a system with Nugent + Vydra as a 10 and it worked When we didn't have Martin - Good point... 4 minutes ago, toddy said: Martin is not a Carroll, he needs the ball to feet and players linking up around him What you mean like if he had Vydra playing as a number 10 behind him? And if we played a 4-2-3-1 maybe? Like I can't imagine when they might be able to try that Oh wait 5 minutes ago, toddy said: End of last season GR tried a system with Nugent + Vydra as a 10 and it worked Maybe you should give Gary a ring and let him know you've solved it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Willow Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Sell asap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddy Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, cheron85 said: When we didn't have Martin - Good point... What you mean like if he had Vydra playing as a number 10 behind him? And if we played a 4-2-3-1 maybe? Like I can't imagine when they might be able to try that Oh wait Maybe you should give Gary a ring and let him know you've solved it? I dont know how you fail to understand Martin needs the ball to feet and midfield runners linking up to him for Martin to be productive and we simply dont have those midfielders any more..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 6 minutes ago, toddy said: End of last season GR tried a system with Nugent + Vydra as a 10 and it worked [I remember Vydra saying it was good playing a position that suites his style, then GR changes it again. And this season gone back to 4-3-3 to try Martin up there as a 9. Martin is not a Carroll, he needs the ball to feet and players linking up around him, we simply dont have those runners in midfield any more, if anything our midfield is now more pedestrian -the opposite of 2013/14. Keep Martin for the bench, will he be happy being a bit player, dont know.... Or we could play Vydra and Martin together. They showed against Sunderland in the 10 minutes they had that they can form a very good partnership. Something I was looking forward to a year ago wjen we signed Vydra, and Vydra himself also stated he couldn't wait to link up with Martin and was looking forward to it. It is frustrating that a year later we have only seen them on the pitch together for 10 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, toddy said: I dont know how you fail to understand Martin needs the ball to feet and midfield runners linking up to him for Martin to be productive and we simply dont have those midfielders any more..... I don't know how you fail to understand that playing him closer to another forward would give him that link up play too - It's commonly know as "thinking around the problem" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, toddy said: I dont know how you fail to understand Martin needs the ball to feet and midfield runners linking up to him for Martin to be productive and we simply dont have those midfielders any more..... I don't know how you fail to understand that other players are allowed to be close to Martin, maybe a Vydra, or a Nugent, or a Lawrence, or Weimann, or a Russell, or an Anya, or even a Forsyth or Olsson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddy Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 1 minute ago, rynny said: Or we could play Vydra and Martin together. They showed against Sunderland in the 10 minutes they had that they can form a very good partnership. Something I was looking forward to a year ago wjen we signed Vydra, and Vydra himself also stated he couldn't wait to link up with Martin and was looking forward to it. It is frustrating that a year later we have only seen them on the pitch together for 10 minutes. There must be a reason why GR dropped Martin after the Wolves game -otherwise like you say linking Vydra with Martin as an option against Preston.....maybe it didnt work in training? But Martin is not the answer to our woes of last season..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hucknall Ram Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, toddy said: There must be a reason why GR dropped Martin after the Wolves game -otherwise like you say linking Vydra with Martin as an option against Preston.....maybe it didnt work in training? But Martin is not the answer to our woes of last season..... Maybe GR looked at it and thought, with 3 at the back maybe Vudra and Nugent is best, might look at Bolton and think maybe Martin and Vydra will work. Horses for courses and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddy Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 13 minutes ago, rynny said: I don't know how you fail to understand that other players are allowed to be close to Martin, maybe a Vydra, or a Nugent, or a Lawrence, or Weimann, or a Russell, or an Anya, or even a Forsyth or Olsson? Thats why Martin has had 3 s**** games, ONE TRICK PONY....opposition presses high, our midfield sits deep and isolate Martin - didnt we have this problem under Clement/Wassall/Pearson and now GR - pattern maybe? Some fans are still stuck in 2013/14 season where Martin was successful.....move on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, toddy said: There must be a reason why GR dropped Martin after the Wolves game -otherwise like you say linking Vydra with Martin as an option against Preston.....maybe it didnt work in training? But Martin is not the answer to our woes of last season..... Maybe he wanted fresh legs of 2 strikers that didn't play 90 minutes 3 days earlier? There are a hundreds different reasons why Martin did not start against Preston and only Rowett and the coaching staff will know exactly why. Again, as I have said earlier in this thread, Martin has started in 2 of the 4 hardest games we have had so far. We have 3 very good striking options, Rowett is going to rotate and change them all season long. None of them are 1st choice, they will play against teams to dictate the way we want to play and to combat the opposition's strengths and weaknesses, horses for courses and all that. This is the best attacking trio, in terms of actual strikers, we have had since Wanchope, Sturridge and Baiano. Hope Rowett can find a way to get all 3 into the starting 11 and build a team around them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, toddy said: Thats why Martin has had 3 s**** games, ONE TRICK PONY....opposition presses high, our midfield sits deep and isolate Martin - didnt we have this problem under Clement/Wassall/Pearson and now GR - pattern maybe? Some fans are still stuck in 2013/14 season where Martin was successful.....move on! The only fans stuck in 13/14 are the ones who keep saying we aren't there any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 42 minutes ago, toddy said: Yes, let us completely rebuild the midfield again so Martin has players around him! Even when we went long he offered nothing with his head/ hold up play, and the ball just kept putting pressure back on our defence. 2013/14 season and the players we had has long gone we have to move on - 4-3-3 is dead in the water with GR - If a player cannot adapt to a managers tactics /systems then move him out, Yes, I know he was our top scorer a few seasons ago - but he has declined season on season and with Martin we are now were we where 12 months ago was under Pearson.- A player that does not fit a system what the manager wants to play. Ok, GR might want to keep Martin on the bench and play him like we played Bent - as a sub maybe to try change a game late on. Martin can fit one of GR's systems but not 433 with our current midfielders. Martin will continue to score goals for us but only with a support striker / number 10 ... In lieu of the old Bryson/Hendrick combo. It's a question of team selection available players and balance. 433 isn't dead with GR .. It's dead with the midfield players we have now, post Hendrick and an aging Bryson (unless maybe if Elsnik comes good ) Striker formation effectiveness : Martin ... Yes with a partner Martin .. No in a 433 with Hudds/Butters/Johnson (Bryson) Vydra .. Yes with Martin or Nuge Vydra .. No in a 433 as above Nuge .. Maybe in a 433 Nuge .. Yes with a partner - Martin or Nuge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 12 minutes ago, toddy said: There must be a reason why GR dropped Martin after the Wolves game -otherwise like you say linking Vydra with Martin as an option against Preston. Decided to mix the whole team up? Decided that with 2 games in 4 days it'd be better to have a completely different combo? Decided that the Preston defence was slow so let's put two pacy guys up there? There are quite a lot of options 4 minutes ago, toddy said: Thats why Martin has had 3 shiite games, ONE TRICK PONY....opposition presses high, our midfield sits deep and isolate Martin - didnt we have this problem under Clement/Wassall/Pearson and now GR - pattern maybe? Yeh - pattern seems to be that the midfield are playing in the wrong way - Smacca 1 and Wassall got us to the playoffs with a high pressing midfield - Since we've started sitting deeper we've done badly - Good point actually Just not the one you were trying to make... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 7 minutes ago, toddy said: Thats why Martin has had 3 s**** games, ONE TRICK PONY....opposition presses high, our midfield sits deep and isolate Martin - didnt we have this problem under Clement/Wassall/Pearson and now GR - pattern maybe? Some fans are still stuck in 2013/14 season where Martin was successful.....move on! Can I just point out the terms of use of the forum to you. https://dcfcfans.uk/terms Maybe pay close attention to this part: Profanity Filter dcfcfans.uk has a filter in place for a reason, this is not intended as a creative challenge to use profanity. Posts found to be containing creative profanity will be edited/removed from the forum. In addition to this, some words when posted may hold the post for moderator approval, posts found to be creatively edited to avoid this filter will be edited or removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 1 minute ago, rynny said: creative profanity Some would describe @toddy's opinions this way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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