Beautiful Football and/or Promotion

[BramcoteRam84]

Balance is key. All the recently promoted sides mentioned above (with exception of Bournemouth) while they play good football, could also mix it physically. Southampton for example had some big physical players in their team (Fonte, Hooiveld, Lambert, Schneiderlein) as well as ball players. Brighton the same.

Derby's problem in recent years is they have only played one way. In playing that way we either won matches at a canter or lost. We had to play at 95% just to win games. (I'm referring more to 14/15 and 15/16 when I say this) It also enabled teams to suss us out. The Middlesbrough defeats at the riverside were particularly painful to watch, likewise Brighton and Leeds away last season. When teams pressed us, we didn't have an answer and consequently in some of the big games against the better championship teams, we were well beaten.

Martin, Thorne, Ince, Nugent, Vydra are all talented footballers at this level who can have a major impact. But they need to be freed up from the defensive side of the game to really flourish (particularly Vydra and Ince).

A team with the right balance of graft and flair is the best equipped to deal with everything the championship throws at them, to win ugly when required and find a way (which we can't do currently), and to play exciting attacking football as required also.

Thats the Derby team I want to see and what I hope we will get with Rowett.

[Anag Ram]

47 minutes ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

Balance is key. All the recently promoted sides mentioned above (with exception of Bournemouth) while they play good football, could also mix it physically. Southampton for example had some big physical players in their team (Fonte, Hooiveld, Lambert, Schneiderlein) as well as ball players. Brighton the same.

Derby's problem in recent years is they have only played one way. In playing that way we either won matches at a canter or lost. We had to play at 95% just to win games. (I'm referring more to 14/15 and 15/16 when I say this) It also enabled teams to suss us out. The Middlesbrough defeats at the riverside were particularly painful to watch, likewise Brighton and Leeds away last season. When teams pressed us, we didn't have an answer and consequently in some of the big games against the better championship teams, we were well beaten.

Martin, Thorne, Ince, Nugent, Vydra are all talented footballers at this level who can have a major impact. But they need to be freed up from the defensive side of the game to really flourish (particularly Vydra and Ince).

A team with the right balance of graft and flair is the best equipped to deal with everything the championship throws at them, to win ugly when required and find a way (which we can't do currently), and to play exciting attacking football as required also.

Thats the Derby team I want to see and what I hope we will get with Rowett.

The teams that succeed are the ones who work the hardest for each other.

We have talented players. We just need them to communicate, support each other and build up an almost telepathic understanding.

If you can play a first time pass, knowing exactly where your team mate will be, the goals will come. 

Having secured two good defensive signings, and with Fozzie coming back, the first job will be to get the new line-up used to each other. 

Then we need to find three players in midfield who complement each other.

The last part will be to instil a desire to score goals. I didn't see that last season. I hope we can sign the likes of Irvine and Watkins- players who sprint into the box with intent.

I think it's less about style and more about ambition. 

[Ninos]

I'm not too much in the mood for being a Rowett apologist right now (given my disdain at him for losing Will) but when did Rowett become the purveyor of stiff non attacking defensive, promotion winning football? At least with Derby.  He gave us that one game this past season where we were attacking, entertaining and amazing.  He's gone on record as saying he wants to press like Klopp, that he admires that style. If he wants to be the Red Bull Leipzig then he can make a compelling case for Will not fitting that style, as he's not fast and physical enough and is not a goal threat. Nugent Vydra Johnson Thorne all fit the style and Ince too when he's grafting. You need athletes fit aggressive tenacious who stick to a strategic game plan (Wisdom Fozzy), and that can make for very exciting, attacking football. No team excites like RB Leipzig, and no team has shot up the leagues like they have.

Let's not knee jerk assume he's just a defensive minded coach after a negative promotion push.

[Gone]

I just want to be entertained when I go, good football and loads of goals, if that means finishing 7th I'd be happy. I'm not too interested in getting  to the Premier League either, in fact I'd love the day we were promoted and all the celebrations, but then would want to stay in the championship. 

[Alph]

11 hours ago, EnigmaRam said:

Give me the 13/14 season of nearly promotion over Billy Davies 1-0 bore scores any day.

Same here!

I watch football for fun. If it's not fun then I will probably barely care at all.

Nothing is sweeter than playing well and winning. It gives an amazing buzz.

And playing well and losing gives a proper feeling of hurt and anger.

That's the emotion I want from football. Not hollow victories and shoulder shrugging defeat. 

Doesn't mean I want to see 70% possession and 30 passes before a shot. But I do want to see imagination, skill and control

[Duracell]

We've not really played nice football since the first half of 14/15.

Our team is pretty small and non-physical, which is fine if you can open teams up with match-winners and playmakers who can make a killer pass. But we don't have much of that in the squad either. It's the worst of both worlds.

That's the worst part of the squad that Rowett has inherited - not enough one thing or the other. We have a massive squad, and yet you can't put out a starting XI of genuine footballers, nor a starting XI of physical athletes.

It's a myth that we try to play exciting, beautiful football. Both McClaren and Clement tried to convert us into sides who played keep ball. The tiki without the taka. We're very good at passing it 10-15 yards to another white shirt, but a Swansea City or a 13/14 Derby County we most certainly are not.

Not sure exactly what Rowett's plans are in terms of style of play, but if he gets rid of what went before, not really sure what we're mourning to be honest. We haven't played exciting football for a while now.

[cannable]

Think it's a bit of a myth that Swansea were this replica of the Dutch 70's side. 

They played the right way but I'd say that they were closer to us under Clement than McClaren. 

Unlike Clement however they weren't spineless in attack and they bagged 90 goals in all competitions in 10/11.

[Duracell]

Just now, cannable said:

Think it's a bit of a myth that Swansea were this replica of the Dutch 70's side. 

They played the right way but I'd say that they were closer to us under Clement than McClaren. 

Unlike Clement however they weren't spineless in attack and they bagged 90 goals in all competitions in 10/11.

Closer, but still far off. No Warnocks or Johnsons to be found in that side, and their patient play was far more successful at exposing weaknesses in the opposition. Both under Clement and McClaren MK II, a lot of our games looked like a training exercise.

That's more to do with personnel on the pitch and their ability to play that style of play, rather than the style of play itself, IMO.

Think both managers could win the league if they had the right sort of players at their disposal to carry out what they want to do.

 

[cannable]

8 minutes ago, Duracell said:

Closer, but still far off. No Warnocks or Johnsons to be found in that side, and their patient play was far more successful at exposing weaknesses in the opposition. Both under Clement and McClaren MK II, a lot of our games looked like a training exercise.

That's more to do with personnel on the pitch and their ability to play that style of play, rather than the style of play itself, IMO.

Think both managers could win the league if they had the right sort of players at their disposal to carry out what they want to do.

 

I'm not sure Clement knew what players he needed to do what he wanted to do though!

That's the baffling thing about Mac 2's sacking. He was specifically hired to get us playing football again. We went on a winning run playing badly and back-to-the-wall because we had to.

We faltered because he tried getting us playing football again but we didn't have the players anymore. The signings of De Sart, Nugent and the newspaper rumblings about him overhauling the squad were a sign that he knew what he needed to do.

Doesnt make any sense.

[Duracell]

2 minutes ago, cannable said:

I'm not sure Clement knew what players he needed to do what he wanted to do though!

That's the baffling thing about Mac 2's sacking. He was specifically hired to get us playing football again. We went on a winning run playing badly and back-to-the-wall because we had to.

We faltered because he tried getting us playing football again but we didn't have the players anymore. The signings of De Sart, Nugent and the newspaper rumblings about him overhauling the squad were a sign that he knew what he needed to do.

Doesnt make any sense.

Think all sorts of non-football related things were happening behind the scenes that we may never find out.

Whatever happened, the people running the club backed the players and not the manager.

[DarkFruitsRam7]

To me, the biggest form of entertainment is when the crowd erupts as the ball thumps into the back of the net. Nothing beats that feeling of everyone losing their minds, forgetting all the worries of the world as we share that single brilliant moment. Yes, I would love us to tear teams to shreds 13/14 style, but we simply haven't got the players to do that anymore. If dull football means those moments of pure joy, going home happy at 5pm and ultimately the chance to say that we've finally achieved our dreams of promotion, then I'm all for it.

[Alph]

1 hour ago, BurtonRam7 said:

To me, the biggest form of entertainment is when the crowd erupts as the ball thumps into the back of the net. Nothing beats that feeling of everyone losing their minds, forgetting all the worries of the world as we share that single brilliant moment. Yes, I would love us to tear teams to shreds 13/14 style, but we simply haven't got the players to do that anymore. If dull football means those moments of pure joy, going home happy at 5pm and ultimately the chance to say that we've finally achieved our dreams of promotion, then I'm all for it.

You know what's weird for me. I'm obviously a Derby fan, I'm on here every day for years, I go to games (less away games now I've got kids tbh) so I'm not some kind of plastic.

But you know when We're playing poor and the ball crashes into the net I don't feel like going crazy. I feel like it's a short term joy and I don't feel like it's a step towards anything. I can't help but think "We need to control more or else when we play..."

Yet when We're in control and we score I look at the clock hoping time is going slow. I love it. I feel like We're growing and progressing. That goals are rewards for great play and we are actually learning.

Some goals and victories feel dull. As do defeats tbf.

I like it when victories make you feel invincible and defeats are heartbreaking and undeserved. Feeds my emotions for the game.

Make any sense? 

Anyone else? 

It's like the coaching approach. Or a boxers fighting approach. You coach to win seasons not matches. A boxer trains hard to fight easy. Kind of willing to take short term pain.

[Adslegend]

If I had to choose then I would definitely go for beautiful football. During the 13/14 season I felt proud of the way we were playing and was always looking forward to the next game. It was truly entertaining. We showed that you can challenge for promotion playing attractive football. 

In contrast, when we were top under Clement playing a slower more methodical style I just didn't feel that same excitement. Games weren't as entertaining. I wasn't looking forward to the games as much because I knew it was going to be another slow game relying on a moment of brilliance rather than being a true attacking threat capable of scoring at any moment.

I think it's the teams that play attractive football that get remembered and not the ones that get promoted playing dull football. 

In 10 or 20 years time which side will you remember more- the 2006/07 side or the 2013/14 side?

[Mafiabob]

Winning football......

I do wonder..... how many weren't happy with the Davies team of 06/07...

What if we played "beautiful" football but the results didn't match it? Would us lot be singing the managers praises come March  if we were 19th and just above the relegation zone? Would we be bothered about "beautiful" football then? Of course not, we would be doing our nuts in shouting for change.

We are not Barcelona, Real Madrid etc...... We are a second tier football team who never really looked like getting promoted last season. We are where we are.

Sometimes good performances and football come hand in hand. So does winning ugly and battling.

Take snooker..... You think Mark Selby..... Ronnie O etc play great watchable snooker all the time? Of course not..... Steve Davis certainly didn't.... winners win however they can..... not just for show. 

Anout time we blooming well learnt this as fans instead of insisting on "beautiful" football.

Let me see wins anyday..... that's what we want. Results matter.

[Day]

3 minutes ago, Mafiabob said:

Take snooker..... You think Mark Selby..... Ronnie O etc play great watchable snooker all the time?

My missus thinks Selby has a beautiful bum, I'm convinced it's the only reason she watches snooker. 

 

[Mafiabob]

4 minutes ago, David said:

My missus thinks Selby has a beautiful bum, I'm convinced it's the only reason she watches snooker. 

 

I actually screenshot a pic of his hair and take it into the hairdressers and tell them to copy that. 

[Day]

3 minutes ago, Mafiabob said:

I actually screenshot a pic of his hair and take it into the hairdressers and tell them to copy that. 

Not sure what's worse, that or me as a 14 year old with the freedom to do what I wanted and a picture of Nicholas Anelka 

[Charlie G]

My obvious choice would be beautiful football. However the gap between us and the money men in the premiership is getting bigger. We've had Burnley, Watford and now Huddlesfield all come knocking for our young talented players. It used to be the big names of English football years ago so I'm desperate for a level playing field so if that means going up watching slightly less entertaining football for promotion I'd take it. 

[Mafiabob]

54 minutes ago, Adslegend said:

If I had to choose then I would definitely go for beautiful football. During the 13/14 season I felt proud of the way we were playing and was always looking forward to the next game. It was truly entertaining. We showed that you can challenge for promotion playing attractive football. 

In contrast, when we were top under Clement playing a slower more methodical style I just didn't feel that same excitement. Games weren't as entertaining. I wasn't looking forward to the games as much because I knew it was going to be another slow game relying on a moment of brilliance rather than being a true attacking threat capable of scoring at any moment.

I think it's the teams that play attractive football that get remembered and not the ones that get promoted playing dull football. 

In 10 or 20 years time which side will you remember more- the 2006/07 side or the 2013/14 side?

The 2006/07 side without a doubt..... 

[Nuwtfly]

Some great arguments on here. Personally, I'm still of the mindset that I'd rather win the Allardyce way than lose the Jokanovic way.