RoyMac5 Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 47 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: The difference being the employees are paid big sums of money, in our case the employee is using his money. Which of Mel's appointments did you disagree with? Is a managerial appointment only correct if it ends with promotion? Yes, when that's what you're aiming for, surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said: But you seem to be saying that using hindsight that the managerial appointments are wrong and that's the same thing that Mel is doing surely when sacking them? As I said, other than the Pearson appointment, I can't really moan about any of the other appointments. Even the Pearson appointment was met with much glee from a large majority of fans who believed we needed to move away from our 4-3-3 and give something new a try. If you are going to be mentioning individual players roles in your assessment of Mel's tenure does that mean you are happy for him to get involved in team affairs? I'm saying his interview process ought to be far more thorough. If it is the case, as we've been told, that numerous managers have deviated from the plans laid out then Morris needs to select his managers far more carefully. I don't want Morris to get involved in team affairs, but I do want him to stick with a manager for more than 5 minutes. It is counter productive to give every new manager free reign to completely re-design the team in his own image, only to sack that manager after a few months and appoint someone whose footballing philosophy differs from his predecessor so wildly that many of the expensive signings brought in are now effectively useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 50 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Yes, when that's what you're aiming for, surely? Well everyone should be aiming for promotion. MM quite clearly said from the start that this was not the only aim. Unfortunately, fans choose to ignore that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 40 minutes ago, Anon said: I'm saying his interview process ought to be far more thorough. If it is the case, as we've been told, that numerous managers have deviated from the plans laid out then Morris needs to select his managers far more carefully. I don't want Morris to get involved in team affairs, but I do want him to stick with a manager for more than 5 minutes. It is counter productive to give every new manager free reign to completely re-design the team in his own image, only to sack that manager after a few months and appoint someone whose footballing philosophy differs from his predecessor so wildly that many of the expensive signings brought in are now effectively useless. I understand your argument. Other than Pearson I don't see any major deviation. During his interview he should have been seriously pressed in his philosophy. Maybe MM was naive in this respect and maybe paid too much attention to what the fanbase was saying. The expensive signings that we made early doors were made by Clement and they did not even fit into his philosophy, the only way there could have been avoided would have been by MM vetoing the purchase ie getting involved in team affairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyPowell Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 On 6/23/2017 at 13:11, Anon said: There's one person alone responsible for the ludicrous turnover of managers in the last few years and that is Mel Morris. His recruitment process appears to be fundamentally flawed. He has brought in managers with a multitude of different philosophies and plans for the team, but not demonstrated the testicular fortitude to back his own decisions by giving any of them the necessary time to implement their plans. All we ever hear is that he gave the mangers the money, but that is meaningless without time in the job. The laissez-faire approach with the chequebook juxtaposed with the ultra autocratic approach to results is a complete mismatch and will never work. This is the reason we have a squad of overpaid, incompatible players. This is the reason we are now having to sell our academy talents at a cut price to balance the books. Whilst I can't be certain, I'm pretty sure that I will despise what Rowett has planned for the club, but it's time for Mel Morris to show the courage of his convictions and actually back the guy with time, which is ultimately more important than any sum of money. isnt it obvious Rowett has Mels backing if he hadnt we wouldnt be selling will hughes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: Well everyone should be aiming for promotion. MM quite clearly said from the start that this was not the only aim. Unfortunately, fans choose to ignore that. Yes, Mel says lots of things. Like Clement our Ferguson, I'll not ignore that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: I understand your argument. Other than Pearson I don't see any major deviation. Rowett? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 6 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Rowett? We will find that out next season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 Just now, G STAR RAM said: We will find that out next season You mean pre-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 8 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Yes, Mel says lots of things. Like Clement our Ferguson, I'll not ignore that. Obviously, because you store up anything negative about the club to be used at a later date Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: You mean pre-season. Well I would hope he is using pre season to try different things and find out best set up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 21 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Obviously, because you store up anything negative about the club to be used at a later date No I don't, don't you be so personal. You accused the fans of choosing to ignore Mel's comments. Perhaps you'd tell us which we have to forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said: No I don't, don't you be so personal. You accused the fans of choosing to ignore Mel's comments. Perhaps you'd tell us which we have to forget. Ok I take it back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRBee Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 On 2017-6-23 at 11:05, curtains said: Its my belief that Derby Managers in the past have changed their philosophy on how they want to play football at Derby because it isn't the Derby Way due to fan pressure so in that sense yes they have had to change their philosophy. Its a rhetorical question regarding our current manager Rowett asking if he will have to change his philosophy over the ins and outs at Derby in particular regarding the sale of Will Hughes and reverse his decision. A lazy post since you are not specific at all about what you mean. Why does the possible sale of Hughes and the negative reaction mean a change in philosophy ( assuming we know exactly what Rowett's philosophy is ) ? To become a more robust, better defending side does not conflict with the sale of Hughes. What is the 'Derby way' in any case, since it is hard to spot any continuity of the'Derby way' over the last 25 years when we have changed managers. There was as much enthusiasm for Billy Davies as we were winning promotion as there was for Steve Mac , yet the styles of play were completely different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 22 hours ago, TommyPowel said: isnt it obvious Rowett has Mels backing if he hadnt we wouldnt be selling will hughes Time in the job is more important or at least as important as money and control over transfers. It was obvious Pearson had Mel's backing when he was allowed to loan out Martin and spend 12 million, but that lasted 9 games. It was obvious Clement had Mel's backing when he was allowed to spend 20 million on players, but that lasted 6 months. It was obvious McClaren had Mel's backing when he was allowed to renew Martin's contract and sign Nugent, but that lasted 3 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyPowell Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 4 hours ago, Anon said: Time in the job is more important or at least as important as money and control over transfers. It was obvious Pearson had Mel's backing when he was allowed to loan out Martin and spend 12 million, but that lasted 9 games. It was obvious Clement had Mel's backing when he was allowed to spend 20 million on players, but that lasted 6 months. It was obvious McClaren had Mel's backing when he was allowed to renew Martin's contract and sign Nugent, but that lasted 3 months. Are you saying you wouldnt have sacked any of those three? Yes pearson spent 12 million but generated that by selling hendrick 11 million plus 3 million for loaning martin outthe 20 mill spent by clements is considered mainly wasted by most fans wasnt mcarens sacking result based? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 24 minutes ago, TommyPowel said: Are you saying you wouldnt have sacked any of those three? Yes pearson spent 12 million but generated that by selling hendrick 11 million plus 3 million for loaning martin outthe 20 mill spent by clements is considered mainly wasted by most fans wasnt mcarens sacking result based? I absolutely wouldn't have sacked McClaren on either occasion. They stand as two of the most laughably poor decisions I've ever seen. I would've sacked Clement based on the reasoning given at the time, but I've since realised that I was wrong and I now believe those reasons to be completely spurious. I would've sacked Pearson, but that's because I never would've been stupid enough to appoint him in the first place. If I'd selected him. If I had picked him out from all the candidates and I truly believed he was the man to lead the club forwards I would've backed him for at least one season, and certainly for more than 9 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 On 6/23/2017 at 10:22, curtains said: The fans views could bring Rowett down with some Derby fans Clough ,McClaren ,Clement Wassall, Pearson , McClaren and now Rowett is getting the treatment. No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BathRam72 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 On 2017-6-23 at 11:58, coneheadjohn said: About time we had a @curtains thread. Better than a Sky box set in 4K. Can't judge a case unless you have all the evidence,you will have to wait till the start of the season and look at all the transfer business. Everything is purely circumstantial so far. Finally someone with some sense. Sick to death of the doom and gloom mongers who are willing to get rid of GR before he has had a chance to show what he can do. For gods sake judge him around Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAT Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 I for one am happy Rowett is making changes. This team has not progressed I actually think this is more down to playing staff than anything else. Rowett obviously sees the need for what people would consider surprise changes. However when it was evident we weren't event good enough to make the PO's I thought we should be looking to move Hughes, Ince and Keogh on. Generate a bit of money, a slight change of direction and go again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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