DerbyMark Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Mr Tibbs said: Aiming for the top 6 is the mentality we need but we also need a bit of calm when we don't reach them if it turns out that way. Not class it as failure as a fair few do on here. Come on, Leeds and Wednesday both are bigger! It's not just home attendances which count, away attendances, honours and time spent in the top leagues.. both better. We should even add Forest, as much as it pains me to say. Mate... when I was growing up we were winning League Championship's, in European cup's, even having runs in the FA Cup! Back then I thought it would always be the same...! Guess I was lucky.... But even now I wouldn't put this club down... we're still up there with your Leeds and Sheff Wendy's... their no better than us in my book anyway. Still ain't having Forest...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NottsRam77 Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 13 hours ago, 1967Ram said: Does Mel know this? It appears not lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerryDaly Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 5 hours ago, Mr Tibbs said: Aiming for the top 6 is the mentality we need but we also need a bit of calm when we don't reach them if it turns out that way. Not class it as failure as a fair few do on here. Come on, Leeds and Wednesday both are bigger! It's not just home attendances which count, away attendances, honours and time spent in the top leagues.. both better. We should even add Forest, as much as it pains me to say. Taken from the League table of years spent in the top flight 14. Sheffy Wendy 66 15. Derby 65 22. Notts Forest 56 25. Leeds 50 http://www.myfootballfacts.com/SEASONS-IN-TOP-FLIGHT----1888-89-to-2009-10.html Come on Mel ffs, we need to get a grip as Stoke are only 4 years behind us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Tibbs Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 56 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said: Taken from the League table of years spent in the top flight 14. Sheffy Wendy 66 15. Derby 65 22. Notts Forest 56 25. Leeds 50 http://www.myfootballfacts.com/SEASONS-IN-TOP-FLIGHT----1888-89-to-2009-10.html Come on Mel ffs, we need to get a grip as Stoke are only 4 years behind us So that's Wednesday sorted, if someone could post up the honours and away attendances that'll cover Forest and Leeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerbyMark Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 6 minutes ago, Mr Tibbs said: So that's Wednesday sorted, if someone could post up the honours and away attendances that'll cover Forest and Leeds. Away attendance's Mr Tibbs? Yeah Leeds take a fair few everywhere...even Florest do...but look at their home attendance's! Said it before, Leeds have only recently been getting big crowds since Mr Monk took over.... And that lot down the road? Empty seats in the local derby last week! Not one or two either.. The support they get now is largely built on them two European Cup's they keep banging on about... against Hamburg and Malmo! Not exactly Barcelona and Real Madrid... Guided by our manager and the big jug was even lifted by our player.. John McGovern! F*** 'em Mr Tibbs lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Well if I was a footballer from the arse end of nowhere looking for a club I'd think Derby, Forest, Leeds and Wednesday are the same as Ipswich, Wolves, Cardiff and Fulham I'd jump at the chance to play for Bournemouth and Watford over all of them. Isn't that what matters at the end of the day? Club size? To me that's club power. I don't consider the UK a small world power and I don't consider Nigeria a super power. Because population makes no impact. It comes down at the end of the day, imo, to who can draw and pay the biggest managers, coaches and players. That's power and influence. When comes to signing for Derby or Leeds you're not going to look at attendances are you? You'd look at wages, location, ambition, league positions, training facilities, competition for your position. You'd not even glance at attendances. Why would you? Get in the PL and both grounds will be full Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 22 hours ago, IlsonDerby said: I would agree with this if we still have the same squad next season however if the squad has had major surgery then I believe there has to be a bit of wiggle room in terms of expectations especially if he is looking abroad for targets as it will take time to adapt to the English game? Fair one Ilson. What I long for over and above pretty much anything else, is a period of stability and a clear vision for the club. Mel's done a great job off the pitch and hopefully Rowett will be left alone and given a chance to replicate that progress on the field. As for the possibility of departures this summer, we'll hopefully have Fozzy and George back and fighting fit for next season and were Hughes or Ince to go, a decent wad of cash to spend on any required rebuild. Maybe I'm a happy-clapper but that thought gives me some hope at least. COYR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 On 24/03/2017 at 11:27, DerbyMark said: I feel play off's has to be the minimum expectation for a club of this size. End of.. Club of what size? What exactly do you measure our club size on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 On 23/03/2017 at 23:52, archied said: Not knocking your opinion it's just for me I feel we have totally over complicated all this formation / system business for far too long and it's become an easy get out excuse for players and managers alike , yes there's gonna need to be a small bit of jiggling to make the squad better balanced but better balanced for rowett to be able to tweak ,adjust our team when needed to meet a variety of situations we will and do face in a long championship season , rowett is refreshingly not allowing himself to be tied down by a set in stone formation / system that he will rigidly buy players for that can for some mystical reason only be able to play in once they join us , even the squad we have now is far better balanced than people give credit for to be able to be flexible ,, I have said before that the addition of a very decent midfielder that can pass ,tackle and read a game would be massive ,, the return of Thorne may be that player but maybe good or better cover for him is need too , with the return of Martin we have an array of attacking styles and options too , good players listen to good managers , they work on training grounds to learn their role in a team and they run through walls to carry out any role a good manager gives them rather than spit their dummies and say well don't blame me it's not my best position or I can only play in a midfield 3,, attitude over a long season is the key ingredient once you have a semi decent squad and that's rowetts role ,he needs to earn the respect of the players to get them playing for him and earn the respect of Mel to be allowed to replace any players that don't play for him I like this post. How many new players do you need to implement a new system? All of this talk of major overhaul does not make sense to me. The players that supposedly don't fit our system can be offloaded and as far as I am aware there's not that many of them that are regular first team players. It's also interesting that people wanting rid of players because they don't fit our system were probably also the ones that criticise for having no plan B when things are not working! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 20 hours ago, MuespachRam said: Well in hat case I wouldn't be happy with anything else than top, why would I be happy with losing...? Not the point. The thread is more 'what would he have to do to not be deemed a failure' there are not 23 failures in the division each year. Very black and white view on things. Finishing 7th having completely revamped the squad, bringing the wage budget down and lowering the average age of the squad couldn't be seen as failure surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 1 hour ago, 86 points said: Fair one Ilson. What I long for over and above pretty much anything else, is a period of stability and a clear vision for the club. Mel's done a great job off the pitch and hopefully Rowett will be left alone and given a chance to replicate that progress on the field. As for the possibility of departures this summer, we'll hopefully have Fozzy and George back and fighting fit for next season and were Hughes or Ince to go, a decent wad of cash to spend on any required rebuild. Maybe I'm a happy-clapper but that thought gives me some hope at least. COYR. From what I've heard which isn't worth the hassle of mentioning on here I'd be selling Russell, Hughes, Johnson, Shackell and Keogh as well as those deemed not good enough and I would build on that. It would weaken us in the short term but would lower our wage bill massively allowing Rowett to build a side who's sum is more than the individuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 2 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said: Not the point. The thread is more 'what would he have to do to not be deemed a failure' there are not 23 failures in the division each year. Very black and white view on things. Finishing 7th having completely revamped the squad, bringing the wage budget down and lowering the average age of the squad couldn't be seen as failure surely? Surely lowering the wage bill and average age of the squad is being done to improve the squad? So if that is the case an improvement in league position should follow? If the above measures are being done for financial reasons then questions should be being asked of other people rather than the manager and players... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 47 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said: From what I've heard which isn't worth the hassle of mentioning on here I'd be selling Russell, Hughes, Johnson, Shackell and Keogh as well as those deemed not good enough and I would build on that. It would weaken us in the short term but would lower our wage bill massively allowing Rowett to build a side who's sum is more than the individuals. Yeah, I get the subtext. I've no ITK links so no idea how much value to attest to the rumours. That said, I don't thin it'll take Rowett long to suss out who can be trusted and relied upon and who can't if the stories are true. I'd be anxious about letting all of the players you cite leave but I guess if they did we'd have to place our trust in Rowett to replace them. I have to say that I've very little faith in our scouting and recruitment operations which seem to have been utter pants for yonks now. I know we've had a clear out post-Mac but I'll lack confidence until there's evidence to suggest we've turned the corner in that regard. Hopeful though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t'oldu Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Rowett and his team do their own scouting. Perhaps Rush can be persuaded to be a bit more realistic when pushing for maximum sell on fees and minimum buying in fees. It can seem that his dealings / expectations prevent deals going through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 3 minutes ago, t'oldu said: Rowett and his team do their own scouting. Perhaps Rush can be persuaded to be a bit more realistic when pushing for maximum sell on fees and minimum buying in fees. It can seem that his dealings / expectations prevent deals going through. Any examples of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerbyMark Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 3 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: Club of what size? What exactly do you measure our club size on? Average home attendance's maybe? A few clubs in the Premiership would be happy with those. You don't think we're a big club then... I still say top 6 next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerbyMark Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 4 hours ago, Alpha said: Well if I was a footballer from the arse end of nowhere looking for a club I'd think Derby, Forest, Leeds and Wednesday are the same as Ipswich, Wolves, Cardiff and Fulham I'd jump at the chance to play for Bournemouth and Watford over all of them. Isn't that what matters at the end of the day? Club size? To me that's club power. I don't consider the UK a small world power and I don't consider Nigeria a super power. Because population makes no impact. It comes down at the end of the day, imo, to who can draw and pay the biggest managers, coaches and players. That's power and influence. When comes to signing for Derby or Leeds you're not going to look at attendances are you? You'd look at wages, location, ambition, league positions, training facilities, competition for your position. You'd not even glance at attendances. Why would you? Get in the PL and both grounds will be full Yeah some fair points you make. Money talks at the end of the day... I mean Bournemouth get, what 11-12,000 but with rich owner's you can guarantee they're paying top dollar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 30 minutes ago, DerbyMark said: Average home attendance's maybe? A few clubs in the Premiership would be happy with those. You don't think we're a big club then... I still say top 6 next season. Not really no, I think we are where we deserve to be. Not really sure how attendance converts into where you deserve to be. Does the extra £2m to £3m gate receipts warrant us a place in the Premier League? I think top 6 based on what we have spent on players and the wage bill would be an understandable argument. Top 6 based on 30,000 people turning up makes no sense to me. It's not that long ago we struggled to get 20,000 on a regular basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerbyMark Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 25 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Not really no, I think we are where we deserve to be. Not really sure how attendance converts into where you deserve to be. Does the extra £2m to £3m gate receipts warrant us a place in the Premier League? I think top 6 based on what we have spent on players and the wage bill would be an understandable argument. Top 6 based on 30,000 people turning up makes no sense to me. It's not that long ago we struggled to get 20,000 on a regular basis. Oh I dunno... you'ed have to go back a fair bit to when we were struggling to get 20k... unlike Leeds, for example. Think the indifference created by the mediocrity of the Nigel Clough years had seen attendance's tumble to about 20-21k before McLaren took over first time round. Prior to that you'ed probably have to go back to the dark days of the 3 amigos.. Our gates have been pretty consistently up around the 30k mark for some considerable time... unlike Leeds and Wednesday. Forest's gates have been consistently poor in comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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