NottsRam77 Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Ok while I'm still getting my head round what's happened today one thing that did Jump to mind was how does this fit into Mels Derby way. obviously we're assuming our style of play will improve, win, lose or draw I would never argue that mclaren in his last tenure didn't always try and play good football, even more so when compared to the dross we've had this season under Pearson so that's criteria number one ticked. my question is, how does this impact on the accademy and the 'pathway' from accademy to the first team. 1st Time round from what I can remember Mac didn't exactly use the accademy. Why would u to be fair when u can pull in the likes of bamford, Ibe, lingard, wisdom etc etc, but then this doesn't fit into the Derby way and Mels one per season rule that he's quite clearly stated on numerous occasions. do we think we'll hit the loan market for more instant quality in January to try and propel us up the table for an attempt at some instant success or will Mel, Steve and us as fans be happy to bide our time and allow our own some game time to allow them to grow and be our next Hughes, Hendrick et al. Just a thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 The biggest difference this time is that some of our academy players have grown up a bit and are more ready to bridge that gap. So I think they will definitely be in contention. We have got one or two areas where loans would be good - who wouldn't borrow another Tammy Abraham if you were offered one? (Still gutted for Zanzala that he isn't fit at the moment.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ram1964 Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Good points mentioned, I woukd suspoect SM to want to bring in new faces ,so he A) has his own players to shake up the dressing room. B) make a point to players that they can be replaced. C) Ensure he has players on his side working for him. He did bring in quality. loan signings last time so heres hoping. Dont think Mel can dictate bringing in academy players until the team is settled playing consistently and out of any relegation threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenBr Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Didn't McClaren give Hanson his debut? And also used Hendrick and Hughes. It isn't like his successors have used the academy either. Elsnik and Lowe haven't really featured other than in cup games so far this season and Clement didn't bother with the academy either. We are a long way off being anything like the Southampton model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth's left foot Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 The interesting thing for me is how will the team play minus Chris Martin who was so pivotal to his 4-3-3 formation last time. SM will play them if they're good enough, Max Lowe for example will certainly make the grade. His first proper interview will answer a lot of questions about how similar or different this team will be to the last one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 I thought there was no more January loan window? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 7 minutes ago, GenBr said: Didn't McClaren give Hanson his debut? And also used Hendrick and Hughes. It isn't like his successors have used the academy either. Elsnik and Lowe haven't really featured other than in cup games so far this season and Clement didn't bother with the academy either. We are a long way off being anything like the Southampton model. He did your right. Also whilst at the club Calero had a few bench appearances under Mac. I think it was just a case of some of the good youngsters (like Lowe and Elsnik) weren't ready to step up just yet, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 13 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: I thought there was no more January loan window? You can still take loans window to window, so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NottsRam77 Posted October 12, 2016 Author Share Posted October 12, 2016 26 minutes ago, GenBr said: Didn't McClaren give Hanson his debut? And also used Hendrick and Hughes. It isn't like his successors have used the academy either. Elsnik and Lowe haven't really featured other than in cup games so far this season and Clement didn't bother with the academy either. We are a long way off being anything like the Southampton model. Genuinely can't remember about Hanson, he may have had a little cameo which I realise is vital for young players but he certainly wasn't used when he had our 3 1st choice dmcs ruled out for the season. As for Hendrick and Hughes, he would have been hung drawn and quartered if he had left the latter out, and I think it was that season Bryson hit a boat load from midfield, I know obviously Hendrick featured but I think from what I can remember he was 3rd choice behind Hughes and an Inform Bryson, not that it matters he was certainly very much involved. im just curious to see if we follow that same loan in and play other teams players and develope them or we show faith in the likes of elsnik and Lowe if the opportunity presents itself Oh were so far off being Southampton, but that doesn't stop us trying to model ourselves on them in our ethos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanjwitham Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 24 minutes ago, GenBr said: Didn't McClaren give Hanson his debut? And also used Hendrick and Hughes. It isn't like his successors have used the academy either. Elsnik and Lowe haven't really featured other than in cup games so far this season and Clement didn't bother with the academy either. We are a long way off being anything like the Southampton model. Mason Bennett also had his best run of games under mcclaren. And IIRC, Kwame Thomas and mark o'brien got games as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 4 minutes ago, reveldevil said: You can still take loans window to window, so to speak. Sorry being thick...What does that mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Just now, G STAR RAM said: Sorry being thick...What does that mean? You can agree a loan in January until the end of the season, or the next window the following January, but you can't arrange loans outside of the January transfer window. If a player returns early from a loan, he's ineligible to play until the next window opens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiddingsRam Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 I've been saying for a while now ! For middle sized clubs like us , the way forward is the Southampton "way" . Stick with a system /style of play . Bring players through the academy , buy good quality value for money players when needed and when daft offers come in sell . I think the first problem mac will find with his 433 system is the same problems that were his downfall last time around. The holding midfield role and the centre forward role . Both are pivotal for his system to work . Hopefully through his time away he will have learnt how to be more adaptable in these roles . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenBr Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 19 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said: Genuinely can't remember about Hanson, he may have had a little cameo which I realise is vital for young players but he certainly wasn't used when he had our 3 1st choice dmcs ruled out for the season. As for Hendrick and Hughes, he would have been hung drawn and quartered if he had left the latter out, and I think it was that season Bryson hit a boat load from midfield, I know obviously Hendrick featured but I think from what I can remember he was 3rd choice behind Hughes and an Inform Bryson, not that it matters he was certainly very much involved. im just curious to see if we follow that same loan in and play other teams players and develope them or we show faith in the likes of elsnik and Lowe if the opportunity presents itself Oh were so far off being Southampton, but that doesn't stop us trying to model ourselves on them in our ethos No-one has really utilised the academy players so far, but I do want to see the squad eventually using more youth players - Lowe looks good, but he seems to be another player with glass ankles - Elsnik also has potential and would be good to see Hanson back if he has recovered from his injury yet. I agree that emulating Southampton would be the dream, but that is all it is atm. When asked why they managed to produce so many good players from the academy they just said they always had new players coming up through the ranks - even the first team knew that there was a player just behind them who could potentially take their spot - we aren't quite there at Derby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NottsRam77 Posted October 12, 2016 Author Share Posted October 12, 2016 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NottsRam77 Posted October 12, 2016 Author Share Posted October 12, 2016 2 minutes ago, GenBr said: No-one has really utilised the academy players so far, but I do want to see the squad eventually using more youth players - Lowe looks good, but he seems to be another player with glass ankles - Elsnik also has potential and would be good to see Hanson back if he has recovered from his injury yet. I agree that emulating Southampton would be the dream, but that is all it is atm. When asked why they managed to produce so many good players from the academy they just said they always had new players coming up through the ranks - even the first team knew that there was a player just behind them who could potentially take their spot - we aren't quite there at Derby. I think that's just Mels dream, and im on board with that, but I realise it'll take years and years. i just remember us bringing in the likes of shotton and albentosa when we had the likes of rawson (sent out on loan in the championship) and even Hanson who in the accademy were both centre halves, I realise Hanson has since become a dmc. Maybe they weren't deemed ready I just didn't see a great deal in either shotton or albentosa that made me think they were worth taking up a squad space that could have been better served going to a young up and coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 36 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said: Mason Bennett also had his best run of games under mcclaren. And IIRC, Kwame Thomas and mark o'brien got games as well. Thomas did but O'Brien didn't play under Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philmycock Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 2 hours ago, angieram said: (Still gutted for Zanzala that he isn't fit at the moment.) Is he any good then? The next big prospect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 34 minutes ago, philmycock said: Is he any good then? The next big prospect? He is fast and strong and scored goals at under 21 level. He is out with acl damage at the moment so we won't know if he can make the step up yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagerbob Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 6 hours ago, rynny said: Thomas did but O'Brien didn't play under Steve just what i was thinking.... and i dont even know what or who iirc is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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