agents

[California Ram.]

apologies if this has been on the site before but i just saw for the first time - list of transfers and agents. 

had never realised that Sam Rush's old firm Wassermans was the agent for Bent, Butterfield, Johnson, Blackman, Camara etc

http://www.thefa.com/~/media/files/pdf/the fa 2015-16/intermediary-transactions-1-april-2015-to-1-february-2016.ashx?la=en

[Animal is a Ram]

7 minutes ago, singaporeram said:

apologies if this has been on the site before but i just saw for the first time - list of transfers and agents. 

had never realised that Sam Rush's old firm Wassermans was the agent for Bent, Butterfield, Johnson, Blackman, Camara etc

http://www.thefa.com/~/media/files/pdf/the fa 2015-16/intermediary-transactions-1-april-2015-to-1-february-2016.ashx?la=en

WMG are massive, and not just football players.

As coincidental as it might not look, it is.

[Tony Le Mesmer]

Call me old school but not sure why players need agents.

Just say I play for Gillingham and West Ham want to sign me. I first of all decide if I want to move there and if so I go down and meet with them to hear what they've got to say, take a look around and hear the terms and conditions with regards salary and things. If I agree I get the contract checked by a legal pro and I sign, if I disagree I don't.

I still play for Gillingham but i'm pretty crap and my contract is running out not to be renewed so i'll be out of a job soon. Do I pay agents to tout me around or do I just do it myself as I have a passion for the game and want to be an independent human being capable of making my own decisions?

I believe it's as simple as that or don't footballers know their own minds anymore?

Agents are basically middle men getting paid fortunes when there is actually no real need for them.

Just my opinion. Interested to hear yours.

[Animal is a Ram]

1 minute ago, Tony Le Mesmer said:

Call me old school but not sure why players need agents.

Just say I play for Gillingham and West Ham want to sign me. I first of all decide if I want to move there and if so I go down and meet with them to hear what they've got to say, take a look around and hear the terms and conditions with regards salary and things. If I agree I get the contract checked by a legal pro and I sign, if I disagree I don't.

I still play for Gillingham but i'm pretty crap and my contract is running out not to be renewed so i'll be out of a job soon. Do I pay agents to tout me around or do I just do it myself as I have a passion for the game and want to be an independent human being capable of making my own decisions?

I believe it's as simple as that or don't footballers know their own minds anymore?

Agents are basically middle men getting paid fortunes when there is actually no real need for them.

Just my opinion. Interested to hear yours.

Fully agree with you.

Just symptomatic of the way of the world - apply the same logic to generic employment agencies. 

It's the two worst parts of the human condition meeting in the middle. Those who want everything laid on a plate, and those who seek to make a profit on anything. Also as with the rest of life - its not what you know, its who.

[California Ram.]

I think that point's made by the Bradley Johnson transfer - was a complete shock at norwich when it happened. Presumably sam's relationship with his former employee at Wasserman meant we got a tip off that Johnson 'could be available'. Wassermans are big - but if you look at the other clubs, there's nowhere as reliant on them as us.

[TroyDyer]

34 minutes ago, Tony Le Mesmer said:

Call me old school but not sure why players need agents.

Just say I play for Gillingham and West Ham want to sign me. I first of all decide if I want to move there and if so I go down and meet with them to hear what they've got to say, take a look around and hear the terms and conditions with regards salary and things. If I agree I get the contract checked by a legal pro and I sign, if I disagree I don't.

I still play for Gillingham but i'm pretty crap and my contract is running out not to be renewed so i'll be out of a job soon. Do I pay agents to tout me around or do I just do it myself as I have a passion for the game and want to be an independent human being capable of making my own decisions?

I believe it's as simple as that or don't footballers know their own minds anymore?

Agents are basically middle men getting paid fortunes when there is actually no real need for them.

Just my opinion. Interested to hear yours.

Listened to a very interesting interview on TS where the fella spoke about this. Said agents are here as a result of the past being completely the opposite. Young naive footballer vs multimillionaire business men club owners. Chances are, the player, unless Peter Shilton level of negotiator, was getting well and truly screwed time and time again. 

Agents were brought in to level the playing field, and with this I agree. Now however, the tables have turned. Maybe that's karma?

[Tony Le Mesmer]

18 minutes ago, Animal is a Ram said:

Fully agree with you.

Just symptomatic of the way of the world - apply the same logic to generic employment agencies. 

It's the two worst parts of the human condition meeting in the middle. Those who want everything laid on a plate, and those who seek to make a profit on anything. Also as with the rest of life - its not what you know, its who.

I've always thought this with regard to sons of ex players and managers. There seems to be a high proportion of the offspring off these men getting opportunities in the game for some reason. Even Mr Pearson's son was a Leicester youth / reserve player before he got caught treating women like dirt. Nice kid.

They only need to be half decent as a footballer, no better than what is already out there in non league and the like and they get one leg in the door and the opportunity to develop without doing anything other than being the son of a reasonably well known former player / manager. Some do benefit from all the help they are given and time too and end up forging some sort of career when if they were unknowns left to fend for themselves they wouldn't have the contacts or opportunities to be able to flourish.

Diego Poyet? Any better than Luke Summerfield at Grimsby?

Josh Windass though is an excellent footballer. Seen him loads of times for Accrington and superb talent. Moved now.

 

[Tony Le Mesmer]

6 minutes ago, TroyDyer said:

Listened to a very interesting interview on TS where the fella spoke about this. Said agents are here as a result of the past being completely the opposite. Young naive footballer vs multimillionaire business men club owners. Chances are, the player, unless Peter Shilton level of negotiator, was getting well and truly screwed time and time again. 

Agents were brought in to level the playing field, and with this I agree. Now however, the tables have turned. Maybe that's karma?

I can see that Troy but you'd sign a contract you were happy with so I can't see how you get ripped off. To go back to my analogy, if I was on 1000k a week at Gillingham and West Ham offered me a 2 year deal on 10,000k a week, a free car and an unlimited supply of huge ridiculous looking headphones for walking off the team bus with then personally i'd be happy with that (if you weren't then presumably you'd say so and try for more or just walk off - nobody is holding a gun to your head).

I can see where there might be pressure put on young lads but again, that's life. The strong seem to make a go of things and make successes of themselves where the weak give in and are dictated to by the strong. The tragedy is that the strong are often wrong. 

But ultimately you agree terms and get a legal person to check it's watertight and off you go.

[TroyDyer]

4 minutes ago, Tony Le Mesmer said:

I can see that Troy but you'd sign a contract you were happy with so I can't see how you get ripped off. To go back to my analogy, if I was on 1000k a week at Gillingham and West Ham offered me a 2 year deal on 10,000k a week, a free car and an unlimited supply of huge ridiculous looking headphones for walking off the team bus with then personally i'd be happy with that (if you weren't then presumably you'd say so and try for more or just walk off - nobody is holding a gun to your head).

I can see where there might be pressure put on young lads but again, that's life. The strong seem to make a go of things and make successes of themselves where the weak give in and are dictated to by the strong. The tragedy is that the strong are often wrong. 

But ultimately you agree terms and get a legal person to check it's watertight and off you go.

I think it's more to do with small print, mate. 

[Mick Harford]

The PFA used to ( may still do for all I know) offer this service, I know 20 years ago when it looked like I may have a  chance of being a pro I was advised that I should use the PFA to negotiate any contracts, eve beyond that there were a wealth of ex-pros and coaches who could have given decent advice. I can sort of understand people wanting representation as it did used to be so much on the clubs power, but now we seem to have gone so far the other way. I once had a chat with a Villa coach and he was talking about the Angel transfer (circa £7.5m if I remember correctly) and he was saying how only £2.5m of that went to the selling club, £5m out of football and to middle men.

And Tony, as Animal is a Ram says it's the human condition that leads us to the middle man.

As a rule of thumb it's my belief that  if you have the word agent in your job title then you're most likely a snake-oil salesman (and yes, I do include secret agent in that )

[RadioactiveWaste]

9 minutes ago, TroyDyer said:

I think it's more to do with small print, mate. 

The problem with agents, is an agent is supposed to represent your interests, that's why you pay them. However, it seems in the modern game that the agents have the power to far exceed that and often (it appears) in the agents interest more than their players interest or clubs interest. 

If you're an agent, you get a big cut on things moving, but when everyone's happy you're only getting a retainer. So, agitate for.moves, tout your players about, try to get turnover happening. 

I dont "know" this but its how I perceive it. 

[Carnero]

1 hour ago, Tony Le Mesmer said:

Call me old school but not sure why players need agents.

Just say I play for Gillingham and West Ham want to sign me. I first of all decide if I want to move there and if so I go down and meet with them to hear what they've got to say, take a look around and hear the terms and conditions with regards salary and things. If I agree I get the contract checked by a legal pro and I sign, if I disagree I don't.

I still play for Gillingham but i'm pretty crap and my contract is running out not to be renewed so i'll be out of a job soon. Do I pay agents to tout me around or do I just do it myself as I have a passion for the game and want to be an independent human being capable of making my own decisions?

I believe it's as simple as that or don't footballers know their own minds anymore?

Agents are basically middle men getting paid fortunes when there is actually no real need for them.

Just my opinion. Interested to hear yours.

Totally agree but not all footballers are intelligent enough to look out for themselves.

James Milner is one example of a footballer who's never had an agent, deals with it all himself and just has a lawyer look over the finer details of a contract before signing. I'm sure there are other examples but Milner is definitely one.

He's also a great example of the lesser-spotted "model pro" in today's game.

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

When I become a footballer I will not have an agent, I'm quite adamant on that. I can talk the talk myself thank you very much, I've been in sales for 20 years now and can negotiate a good deal for myself.

[G STAR RAM]

Thing is players don't just have agents to look after their transfers.

Was reading Gerrard autobiography the other day and he was saying after his slip he needed to get out of the country quick so he called up his agent to organise him a trip. Sums up modern day footballers to me.

[rammieib]

I imagine a lot of footballers don't have the ability or nous when it comes to negotiating a contract. Agents in most cases will be looking after the player in question and will have a skillset that enables them to negotiate a much better contract through better negotiation skills and I imagine a much rounder knowledge.

Now I know agents will get a portion of the selling price as a fee paid for by the buying club, I also guess agents will work a % of a players salary into their fee as well. However if an agent achieves £20k a week instead of the player achieving £10k a week and takes a 5% cut - then its still better for the player.

Any footballer refusing to use an agent, then I do applaud them - the morals of it bug me but the business side of me totally gets it.

The other thing an agent will do is when a player is unhappy somewhere the agent will almost certainly tout his client around other clubs. That may be more difficult for a player to do without an agent.

Its also very easy for any of us to say on here we wouldn't use an agent - that's because a lot of us have been in business and have a better idea how it works. Footballers probably have GCSE's then some attempt at learning in their academy's before signing pro contracts....

[Uptherams]

1 hour ago, Tony Le Mesmer said:

Call me old school but not sure why players need agents.

Just say I play for Gillingham and West Ham want to sign me. I first of all decide if I want to move there and if so I go down and meet with them to hear what they've got to say, take a look around and hear the terms and conditions with regards salary and things. If I agree I get the contract checked by a legal pro and I sign, if I disagree I don't.

I still play for Gillingham but i'm pretty crap and my contract is running out not to be renewed so i'll be out of a job soon. Do I pay agents to tout me around or do I just do it myself as I have a passion for the game and want to be an independent human being capable of making my own decisions?

I believe it's as simple as that or don't footballers know their own minds anymore?

Agents are basically middle men getting paid fortunes when there is actually no real need for them.

Just my opinion. Interested to hear yours.

Agents are constantly seeking a players next move/paycheck/contract. They are never static. The job is also very time consuming. It's much easier for someone to market you than for you to market yourself. Agents are necessary. But their fees need to be capped and a players transfers limited for set periods. Because otherwise the player will remain a commodity. 

For me the best scenario would be that an agent receives a fixed salary and can only represent X amount of players. That way they have no personal incentive to negotiate/manipulate transactions. There would need to be a united front. Clubs, The FA, Managers and Players/a union would need to all agree to a change. Enough of them. The only way this would happen is if it is pressed by fans. I would totally back such a proposal for fans to not show up to matches and cancel subscriptions to TV packages. Until they listen. Us fans have the power and it's about time we started to show it. 

[eddie]

I don't see any difference between football and any other employment regarding agencies.

I have used an agency for the last 32 years - I doubt I could get a specific role of any sort on the open market now I am in my 60s, but my agent has never let me down yet.

[Philmycock]

2 hours ago, singaporeram said:

apologies if this has been on the site before but i just saw for the first time - list of transfers and agents. 

had never realised that Sam Rush's old firm Wassermans was the agent for Bent, Butterfield, Johnson, Blackman, Camara etc

http://www.thefa.com/~/media/files/pdf/the fa 2015-16/intermediary-transactions-1-april-2015-to-1-february-2016.ashx?la=en

That's a coincidence 

[mwram1973]

2 hours ago, Tony Le Mesmer said:

Call me old school but not sure why players need agents.

Just say I play for Gillingham and West Ham want to sign me. I first of all decide if I want to move there and if so I go down and meet with them to hear what they've got to say, take a look around and hear the terms and conditions with regards salary and things. If I agree I get the contract checked by a legal pro and I sign, if I disagree I don't.

I still play for Gillingham but i'm pretty crap and my contract is running out not to be renewed so i'll be out of a job soon. Do I pay agents to tout me around or do I just do it myself as I have a passion for the game and want to be an independent human being capable of making my own decisions?

I believe it's as simple as that or don't footballers know their own minds anymore?

Agents are basically middle men getting paid fortunes when there is actually no real need for them.

Just my opinion. Interested to hear yours.

I think most of us normal working class fans would agree. Agents not only negotiate contracts but also get sponsorship deals and if i'm not mistaken find them their homes if they have to move. Basically everything is done for them.

I think I read somewhere that evra from man utd had a light bulb go in his house and had someone to come in and change it!!

I'm sure some of them have to have help putting their kit on on match days 

I've always said if Rooney wasn't a footballer he'd be working in mcdonalds 

[RadioactiveWaste]

Can we get Wassermans to have better players on their books?