Only 1 League goal since December

[Sexydadbod]

Just now, Bris Vegas said:

Since the 1st of November last year, no player in the Championship has more assists than Chris Martin. 

Also since the 1st of November last year, only six players in the Championship better him for combined goals and assists. Those are McCormack, Hooper, Wells, Hemed, Forestieri and surprisingly Rotherham's Danny Ward.

Kodjia, who just cost Villa £14 million, contributed to less than Martin since last October. 

Some food for thought.

Whilst it's good that he has provided a lot of assists, I would have preferred it if he scored goals because that's the main purpose of a forward . Assists come as a bonus. Statistics can be misleading at times. I know you like Spanish football Bris so I will give this example. Ronaldo scored more than Messi last season but we can both agree he was nowhere near as good as him in terms of overall influence on the game. Ronaldo would go missing for 89 minutes then score a goal, in contrast with Messi who was involved in all of Barca's build up play. I prefer to observe a player's performance with my own eyes and for me, Martin is nowhere near as good as he was 2 years ago. He used to make clever movements by dropping off into space which allowed the midfielders like Bryson to get beyond him and used to be involved in everything good about our attacking play.

[nottingram]

1 hour ago, McLovin said:

He has been poor since October last year despite Wassall building the team like the Derby of old. Fulham fans don't seem to rate him at all and consider him lazy. Imo he is finished as one of the better championship strikers. The stats back this up.

Well we looked an infinitely more exciting team when Wassall did build the team around him, might not have got too many goals but as Bris said he has more assists than anyone else since 'the stats back up' that he is finished. 

Genuinely quite baffled at your argument that you'd prefer him to have goals than assists, because the end result of both is that Derby have scored a goal which is the important thing surely? Strikes me that you might have not looked at the stats yourself before making your assertion that he is finished.

[satty atwal]

5 hours ago, McLovin said:

Fulham fans don't rate Martin either

http://www.friendsoffulham.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=2de659ho9id027sm99ah6reha3&topic=55829.0

Good shall i go pick him up?

[Alph]

1 hour ago, McLovin said:

Vydra played for a very poor team in Reading last season, Martin supposedly had the best midfield in the league as people keep telling me behind him and 2 of the so called best wingers either side of him. Also whilst Vydra has been poor for nearly a year, he has more time on his side to regain the confidence he had a few years ago. I would be surprised if Martin scores 15 in a season again in his career. He is 28 this year, I doubt his game is going to improve much, if at all. I personally think his career will fizzle out like Stevie Howard's did.

So that's the proof then. That Vydra has time to get better but at 28 Martin doesn't. 

Martin has done more since October and before October than Vydra and Wilson. 

38 of Vydra's 61 goals have come in 2 seasons - 12/13 and 14/15. In 14/15 he scored 16. How many did Martin score. This idea that Vydra has a bad spell in a glittering career is floored. The season that everyone focuses on was the season he hit 22 in 47 in 2012/13.

You also said Martin's lack of movement stopped Bryson going past him. I'd say that was more down to the manager and the service into the final third

Also have a look where Steve Howard's career went after us and who it was under. 

I'm not against Vydra. It's just you're writing off a player who's had a bad year. Yet he's done more than Vydra in that year and any other year. 

[The_Sheriff]

It's harsh to compare vydra and Martin.  Martin had the best of 3 years of the team playing for him or to his strengths whichever way you look at it.

Vydra has came in to a squad that is trying to adapt to a new style of football a new system and learning each others strengths and weaknesses. 

I'm not surprised Fulham fans have not taken to Martin and I think he wont be a success there.

Overall I am glad we are now trying a different way instead of playing for Martin. We need change. As Einstein said insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.  (Promotion)

[cannable]

I hate this idea that Martin was bad because he needed teams playing to his strengths.

What striker is this not true of? 

[G STAR RAM]

9 hours ago, McLovin said:

Martin supposedly had the best midfield in the league as people keep telling me behind him and 2 of the so called best wingers either side of him.

I thought he was surrounded by a team of failures, with big egos and no confidence?

It's amazing how this team keeps on changing to fit peoples arguments! 

[Sexydadbod]

6 hours ago, cannable said:

I hate this idea that Martin was bad because he needed teams playing to his strengths.

What striker is this not true of? 

Good strikers score goals no matter what the system is. Look at Darren Bent when he first came on loan, he scored for fun despite the team trying to use him like they used Martin. The point is that Martin was still poor even when the team was built around him under Wassall.

[Sexydadbod]

8 hours ago, satty atwal said:

Good shall i go pick him up?

To sulk on the bench? No ta

[satty atwal]

38 minutes ago, McLovin said:

To sulk on the bench? No ta

No to start mate. With vdyra playing off him

[nottingram]

47 minutes ago, McLovin said:

Good strikers score goals no matter what the system is. Look at Darren Bent when he first came on loan, he scored for fun despite the team trying to use him like they used Martin. The point is that Martin was still poor even when the team was built around him under Wassall.

No he wasn't, as Bris pointed out to you. Repeating the same thing over and over again doesn't change the fact it is total nonsense.

[IlsonDerby]

11 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

Since the 1st of November last year, no player in the Championship has more assists than Chris Martin. 

Also since the 1st of November last year, only six players in the Championship better him for combined goals and assists. Those are McCormack, Hooper, Wells, Hemed, Forestieri and surprisingly Rotherham's Danny Ward.

Kodjia, who just cost Villa £14 million, contributed less than Martin in terms of goals and assists since last October. 

Some food for thought.

Perfect example of manipulating statistics to make a point haha. 

Lets just remove 2 and a half months of a 10 month season and use the stats from the remaining months...

[IlsonDerby]

19 minutes ago, nottingram said:

No he wasn't, as Bris pointed out to you. Repeating the same thing over and over again doesn't change the fact it is total nonsense.

He wasnt nearly as effective as season 1 under MAC...

[Sexydadbod]

Don't get me wrong, Martin is a decent championship striker but the fact that he divides opinion between Derby fans suggests that he isn't as good as some think he is. Most importantly the coaching staff decided between them that Martin was not required for the season. As for Martin's previous statistics, they're irrelevant as what matters is the here and now. Joe Hart and Nasri were once important players for Man City but most of the Man City fans aren't moaning that both have been sent out on loan now, why? Because they have full trust that the manager will take them to the next level. On Martin, the fact that only 2 midtable championship teams wanted him, one of whom are loaded but didn't go higher than 6.5 million shows that perhaps some championship teams don't view him as a must buy striker.  No teams offered a stupid amount for him,like Villa did for Kodjia or McCormack so perhaps he isn't seen as being a top championship striker.

[nottingram]

32 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

He wasnt nearly as effective as season 1 under MAC...

The whole team has not nearly been as effective as season 1 under MAC? He still scored 15ish last season and assisted a load too.

Even if you think it was the right decision to move him on, he deserves an awful lot more respect from fans who are so keen to rewrite history to paint him as a player that isn't very good. 

[TheDeadlySaul]

1 hour ago, McLovin said:

Good strikers score goals no matter what the system is. Look at Darren Bent when he first came on loan, he scored for fun despite the team trying to use him like they used Martin. The point is that Martin was still poor even when the team was built around him under Wassall.

No, we basically changed our system to fit Bent when he came. We went from build-up through the middle to fast gungho football that lead to Ince and Bent scoring boat loads of goals, but also us conceding a tonne more. 

[PodgeyRam]

2 hours ago, McLovin said:

Good strikers score goals no matter what the system is. Look at Darren Bent when he first came on loan, he scored for fun despite the team trying to use him like they used Martin. The point is that Martin was still poor even when the team was built around him under Wassall.

Nope, you'll find that when Bent arrived we pretty much went all out attack which suited him down to the ground. Played to his strengths as you like to say. Martin was much improved when Wassall built the team around him, as any striker would be.

Vydra isn't scoring at the moment, is he not a good striker? After all, you've said good strikers score goals, no matter what the system is. His 2 goals since December would suggest that he isn't a good striker in that case. If he was a good striker he would've scored lots of goals at Reading. Except he didn't.

He played in a system that didn't suit him at Reading. Just like Martin did for the majority of last season, and Martin scored and assisted a lot more over the course of it.

[G STAR RAM]

@McLovin I am struggling to keep up with your argument here.

You seem to be saying that Martin's lack of goals means he is not a good striker because strikers should score goals no matter what system they play in.

On the other hand you are saying that Vydras lack of goals don't make him a bad striker because he was playing in a poor team and he will turn his scoring record around.

So which is it?

[Sexydadbod]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

@McLovin I am struggling to keep up with your argument here.

You seem to be saying that Martin's lack of goals means he is not a good striker because strikers should score goals no matter what system they play in.

On the other hand you are saying that Vydras lack of goals don't make him a bad striker because he was playing in a poor team and he will turn his scoring record around.

So which is it?

Direct me where I said Vydra lack of goals doesn't make him a bad striker? You seem to be putting words into my mouth. I said Vydra is younger so has more time to improve his game. He played in a poor team last season, there's no doubt about that. Whether he reclaims his Watford form remains to be seen.

[G STAR RAM]

4 minutes ago, McLovin said:

Direct me where I said Vydra lack of goals doesn't make him a bad striker? You seem to be putting words into my mouth. I said Vydra is younger so has more time to improve his game. He played in a poor team last season, there's no doubt about that. Whether he reclaims his Watford form remains to be seen.

Not then exact words @CumbrianRam made reference to Vydras lack of goals and you responded by saying he was playing in a poor Reading team...I have no idea what other point you could have been trying to make?