cheron85 Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 31 minutes ago, WhiteHorseRam said: Wow, that's a bit harsh. Burnley paid a lot of chocolate buttons for Jeff. I would rather Mac sorted what we had rather than Mel go super generous and give him a Man City type war chest for Christmas. You've missed the point here though WHR... They're rubbish because they're OUR players... Hendrick is a worldey now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninos Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 2 hours ago, Leicester Ram said: It's a bloody difficult ask, isn't it, being a CB at this club? You're either labelled as error prone and a defensive liability, like Keogh and Bucko, even if you are good with the ball at your feet or you're a waste of time because you can't pass the ball out quick enough or accurately enough, like Shackell, even if you are absolutely solid defensively. It astonishes me that the majority of people on this forum, who are most likely between 18 and 80, have had all that time in their lives to figure out that even the best championship players are flawed. It's why they're in the championship! "Get rid of Shackell ASAP, can't pass the ball out, ludicrously slow" Yeah, we know, because if he was decent with the ball at his feet, he'd be playing for a decent Premier League like Stoke or Southampton, not bloody Championship Derby "Don't want Martin back, he's been found out and he's crap unless you play to his strengths" Yeah, we know, because if he was quick and scoring overhead kicks, he'd be playing for Arsenal, not bloody Championship Derby Shackell's a bloody good defender for this level, one of the best. He's intelligent defensively and can completely match that intelligence physically. At 33, he still looks strong as an ox and he's not that slow. Him and Keogh suit each other down to the ground and make each other look like better players. Yeah, he's not great at passing it out but maybe with a decent coach he would be and I'm fairly certain we wouldn't have been having 3-3's at Rotherham and Millwall or 4-4's at Huddersfield if we'd had him back in Mac's last tenure. I'd agree with this and actually the only real glaring issue with our centre halves is their almost complete inability to score off our set pieces. They are not the problem with the team thought, theyre a strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteHorseRam Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 9 minutes ago, cheron85 said: You've missed the point here though WHR... They're rubbish because they're OUR players... Hendrick is a worldey now... If Suarez, Ronaldo, Messi came to the Ipro would they all turn to **** then? We are hopefully now emerging from uncertain times and they will all look better, and have more confidence, with a few wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 16 minutes ago, WhiteHorseRam said: If Suarez, Ronaldo, Messi came to the Ipro would they all turn to **** then? It's not about their ability from an objective view... It's about the fact that ALL OUR players are rubbish... Just tosh... Utter garbage... You know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AutoWindscreens Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 2 hours ago, Leicester Ram said: It's a bloody difficult ask, isn't it, being a CB at this club? You're either labelled as error prone and a defensive liability, like Keogh and Bucko, even if you are good with the ball at your feet or you're a waste of time because you can't pass the ball out quick enough or accurately enough, like Shackell, even if you are absolutely solid defensively. It astonishes me that the majority of people on this forum, who are most likely between 18 and 80, have had all that time in their lives to figure out that even the best championship players are flawed. It's why they're in the championship! "Get rid of Shackell ASAP, can't pass the ball out, ludicrously slow" Yeah, we know, because if he was decent with the ball at his feet, he'd be playing for a decent Premier League like Stoke or Southampton, not bloody Championship Derby "Don't want Martin back, he's been found out and he's crap unless you play to his strengths" Yeah, we know, because if he was quick and scoring overhead kicks, he'd be playing for Arsenal, not bloody Championship Derby Shackell's a bloody good defender for this level, one of the best. He's intelligent defensively and can completely match that intelligence physically. At 33, he still looks strong as an ox and he's not that slow. Him and Keogh suit each other down to the ground and make each other look like better players. Yeah, he's not great at passing it out but maybe with a decent coach he would be and I'm fairly certain we wouldn't have been having 3-3's at Rotherham and Millwall or 4-4's at Huddersfield if we'd had him back in Mac's last tenure. Er ... hang on a minute ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 4 minutes ago, AutoWindscreens said: Er ... hang on a minute ... Hahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanjwitham Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 2 minutes ago, AutoWindscreens said: Er ... hang on a minute ... I think we've got to the stage where '3-3 at Rotherham' has passed into Derby folklore as a term for doing quite well and then screwing it up at the end - "we played quite well at Wembley until we 3-3 at Rotherham'd it". Just like 'Buying patio furniture' means signing for the club, and 'sleeping with someone's missus' means leaving in dodgy circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicester Ram Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 42 minutes ago, AutoWindscreens said: Er ... hang on a minute ... I've completely mugged myself off there, you're absolutely right. ******* Wassall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Hobhead Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 If Shacks fell out with Pearson then he won't be the first to have done so. He gets a clean slate I suppose now. In my opinion he's a solid defender, but he shouldn't be seeing so much time on the ball. But right now, I think Pearce would be unlucky to lose his place. If anything, Keogh has been the one to struggle most this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckoBeast Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Don't know if it's been posted, but can't see Shacks in the training pictures so doubt he'll be fit for Sat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 1 minute ago, BuckoBeast said: Don't know if it's been posted, but can't see Shacks in the training pictures so doubt he'll be fit for Sat Does seem very odd the lack of update on his situation, however I did spot a wild George Thorne in those pictures so alls not lost! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NottsRam77 Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 10 hours ago, duncanjwitham said: The problem is, we just removed the holding midfielder without actually trying to implement anything else, and the same with removing Martin. So now we've got the situation we can't ever play out through the holder and the ball never sticks at the strikers feet. Instead of fixing a problem that occurs sometimes, we've manufactured the situation where the problem occurs 100% of the time. It's literally the most set of stupid tactical decision I've ever seen. Regarding Shackell, the problem really isn't the 40-yard hollywood passes that go straight out of play. Yeah they aren't great, but the bigger issue is how slowly he moves the ball on and his lack of pace. If you're going to play a proper possession system (i.e. not Clements 'everybody camps on our own 18 yard box and passes slowly to each other'), you need your backline to push up, to reduces the spaces between your lines. This brings your players closer together and makes it much easier to keep the ball as you're making 10 yard passes each time, instead of 20 yard passes with 2 defenders in the gap between you. Shackell's lack of pace makes doing this difficult. Also, there's no point passing for passing's sake, you need to pull opposing players out of position to create holes. If you pass it slowly, they will just get into shape and hold position, and you'll just end up passing it around in front of them without really creating anything. If you move it quickly and make runs off the ball, you will eventually create gaps to play through. A big part of that is when the ball goes into the back 4. With Bucko in there, the ball would go into the back 4, and within 3 or 4 touches would have been moved across the back 4 and out to the fullback and we're attacking again. It takes Shackell 3 or 4 touches to get control of the ball and open his body up to attempt the pass and all of the momentum has been lost. None of that is to say Shackell's a bad player, he's just completely unsuited to the way we want to play. Burnley suited him because they tended to be a bit more direct, he could take a touch or 2 and then go direct to Gray and the ball would stick and they can play from there. And they tended to sit a bit deeper as they were less concerned with keeping the ball in midfield. Couldn't agree more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 2 hours ago, Warren Hobhead said: If Shacks fell out with Pearson then he won't be the first to have done so. He gets a clean slate I suppose now. In my opinion he's a solid defender, but he shouldn't be seeing so much time on the ball. But right now, I think Pearce would be unlucky to lose his place. If anything, Keogh has been the one to struggle most this season. I was going to say "Everyone gets a clean slate as far as I'm concerned" - but I like to think they pretty well do from me every match, at least as far as football is concerned. Shacks went down in my estimation when he went off at the deep end at Rotherham - I just don't like that sort of thing and never have, but it's a new era now, so clean slates all round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteHorseRam Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 On 13/10/2016 at 15:50, cheron85 said: It's not about their ability from an objective view... It's about the fact that ALL OUR players are rubbish... Just tosh... Utter garbage... You know? Now I just want to take you to the pub and give you a big hug. Its going to be fine now Schteve is back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 For me the biggest thing I want to see Mac bring back with him is movement off the ball ,, that's what we had in spades when he was here before, little triangles , players showing for the ball ,, for me that's what we confuse with players looking bad ,it's when they have the ball and have no options then panick or lump 60 yard hopefull balls , movement off the ball allows players to do the simple which looks world class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Hobhead Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 On 13/10/2016 at 20:00, eddie said: I was going to say "Everyone gets a clean slate as far as I'm concerned" - but I like to think they pretty well do from me every match, at least as far as football is concerned. Shacks went down in my estimation when he went off at the deep end at Rotherham - I just don't like that sort of thing and never have, but it's a new era now, so clean slates all round. Agreed. Boiled my urine that day. It's clear he's a bit of a big head, but that isn't always a bad thing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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