Live Game Thread 16/17

[rynny]

1 minute ago, eddie said:

Barcelona's finishing position in the last 17 seasons, with Guardiola's seasons highlighted...

2,4,4,6,2,1,1,2,3,1,1,1,2,1,2,1,1

The 4 seasons before he took over are hardly failure - you could argue that Rijkaard was the one who actually turned Barcelona around.

No no eddie, you just can't question anything in even a slightly negative way about Pep where @Bris Vegas is concerned.

[MrsRam]

Have him back in a heartbeat - scored today..........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTKORcr1jhY&list=RDLTKORcr1jhY

[Ted McMinn Football Genius]

Think that is a welcome back to the Championship Hull City, absolutely demolished by Palace today and deservedly about to re-join us in the Championship. 

[Day]

Sheff Wed not a shot on target today, just the one corner. Doesn't sound pretty. 0-0 though so doesn't really matter.

[RadioactiveWaste]

45 minutes ago, Ted McMinn Football Genius said:

Think that is a welcome back to the Championship Hull City, absolutely demolished by Palace today and deservedly about to re-join us in the Championship. 

I'm so looking forward to the "mauled by the tigers" dance moves.........

[Bris Vegas]

20 hours ago, eddie said:

Barcelona's finishing position in the last 17 seasons, with Guardiola's seasons highlighted...

2,4,4,6,2,1,1,2,3,1,1,1,2,1,2,1,1

The 4 seasons before he took over are hardly failure - you could argue that Rijkaard was the one who actually turned Barcelona around.

Barcelona had an amazing team in 2006 with Ronaldinho and Deco in their prime.

Not sure what that has to do with Pep taking over an old failing team who hadn't won the league for two years though.

Like I said, the only first-team players Pep had which were champions were Xavi, Puyol and Eto'o so he didn't take over a winning team.

 

[Bris Vegas]

20 hours ago, rynny said:

No no eddie, you just can't question anything in even a slightly negative way about Pep where @Bris Vegas is concerned.

You can criticise him all you want.

Just don't re-write history to try and make your point. At least stick to facts.

 

[rynny]

4 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

You can criticise him all you want.

Just don't re-write history to try and make your point. At least stick to facts.

 

Where did I re-write history?

All I said was if you are judging Conte on 2 seasons before he took over why not do the same with Pep?

[Ghost of Clough]

57 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Barcelona had an amazing team in 2006 with Ronaldinho and Deco in their prime.

Not sure what that has to do with Pep taking over an old failing team who hadn't won the league for two years though.

Like I said, the only first-team players Pep had which were champions were Xavi, Puyol and Eto'o so he didn't take over a winning team.

 

That old, failing team which also reached the semis of the Champions League and the Copa del Rey?

Let's also not forget Valdes (260 apps), Marquez (200 apps) Iniesta (211 apps), and Messi (over 100 games) by the time Guardiola took charge. Whilst Sylvinho, Abidal, Toure and Henry were all regulars over the previous season and remained so under him for that first year. 

[eddie]

1 hour ago, Bris Vegas said:

You can criticise him all you want.

Just don't re-write history to try and make your point. At least stick to facts.

 

If I want facts, I'll wait until I read the reports on HITC.

Oh, wait.....

[Bris Vegas]

5 hours ago, rynny said:

Where did I re-write history?

All I said was if you are judging Conte on 2 seasons before he took over why not do the same with Pep?

You can judge them exactly the same. Conte took over a team who won the PL 15 months prior to his arrival, and Pep took over a side who hadn't won a trophy for 2 years and were loaded with ageing past their prime players.

I'm not the one here claiming Pep walked in on a winning team. Conte did, Pep didn't.

 

[Bris Vegas]

4 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

That old, failing team which also reached the semis of the Champions League and the Copa del Rey?

Let's also not forget Valdes (260 apps), Marquez (200 apps) Iniesta (211 apps), and Messi (over 100 games) by the time Guardiola took charge. Whilst Sylvinho, Abidal, Toure and Henry were all regulars over the previous season and remained so under him for that first year. 

They were failing as they hadn't won a trophy for 2 years and finished a whopping 18 points behind the league winners.

Messi was an 18-year-old part player the last time Barca won a trophy prior to Pep, while Iniesta was a young squad player.

Henry, Toure and Abidal's first trophy for Barca was under Pep, while Sylvinho made only a few starts in 2008/09.

Again, let's not re-write history here.

[Ghost of Clough]

7 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

They were failing as they hadn't won a trophy for 2 years and finished a whopping 18 points behind the league winners.

Messi was an 18-year-old part player the last time Barca won a trophy prior to Pep, while Iniesta was a young squad player.

Henry, Toure and Abidal's first trophy for Barca was under Pep, while Sylvinho made only a few starts in 2008/09.

Again, let's not re-write history here.

So the quality already in the squad which he inherited, has no bearing because they were all younger and some had only started playing regularly the season after winning the title? Rijkaard had already laid solid foundations in rebuilding the squad - the missing ingredients only being Alves, Pique and Busquets. 

[Bris Vegas]

14 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

So the quality already in the squad which he inherited, has no bearing because they were all younger and some had only started playing regularly the season after winning the title? Rijkaard had already laid solid foundations in rebuilding the squad - the missing ingredients only being Alves, Pique and Busquets. 

I don't know what that has to do with the Conte/Pep.

Pep didn't take over a winning side, Conte did. That's not to say that Conte hasn't done a great job this season because he has. In fact, Chelsea are more entertaining this season in their style of play as I can remember.

But the real challenge is to come as the squad he has now have already been PL winners.

Pep didn't take over a squad of La Liga winners. He took over a few La Liga winners, the rest he helped them become winners.

Rijkaard had very little to do with any part of Barcelona's ensuing success just like Nigel Pearson at Leicester City. Pep created the best team ever, he didn't just have it on a plate for him.

[RadioactiveWaste]

Bris and Guardiola sittin in a tree....

[Ghost of Clough]

20 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

I don't know what that has to do with the Conte/Pep.

Pep didn't take over a winning side, Conte did. That's not to say that Conte hasn't done a great job this season because he has. In fact, Chelsea are more entertaining this season in their style of play as I can remember.

But the real challenge is to come as the squad he has now have already been PL winners.

Pep didn't take over a squad of La Liga winners. He took over a few La Liga winners, the rest he helped them become winners.

Rijkaard had very little to do with any part of Barcelona's ensuing success just like Nigel Pearson at Leicester City. Pep created the best team ever, he didn't just have it on a plate for him.

I guess you can ignore the fact that Moses, Alonso, Luiz and Kante didn't win the league with Chelsea. 

Valdes, Marquez, Puyol, Xavi, Iniesta, Eto'o all played at least 30 games during the previous title winning season. Plus, Messi and Sylvinho were squad players making 44 league appearances between them. 

So not quite as bad as you try to make it look. 

[Bris Vegas]

13 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I guess you can ignore the fact that Moses, Alonso, Luiz and Kante didn't win the league with Chelsea. 

Valdes, Marquez, Puyol, Xavi, Iniesta, Eto'o all played at least 30 games during the previous title winning season. Plus, Messi and Sylvinho were squad players making 44 league appearances between them. 

So not quite as bad as you try to make it look. 

I'm not trying to make anything look bad. The two aren't comparable at all.

Conte inherited a side who won the PL title and added to it with Luiz, Alonso and Kante - the latter being a PL winner.

Pep didn't inherit a La Liga winning side. Of his starting XI only three were first-teamers in their last La Liga title win - Eto'o, Puyol and Valdes.

Iniesta and Messi weren't while Xavi wasn't involved in the big games. Abidal, Toure and Henry never won La Liga prior to his arrival, while Busquets was an academy player and Pique and Alves were his signings.

 

[Ghost of Clough]

8 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

Like I said, the only first-team players Pep had which were champions were Xavi, Puyol and Eto'o so he didn't take over a winning team.

 

1 hour ago, Bris Vegas said:

Of his starting XI only three were first-teamers in their last La Liga title win - Eto'o, Puyol and Valdes.

At least choose a story and stick to it. 

Iniesta still played in more games than any other CM during that season. Marquez and Silvinho (played more than Van Bronckhorst) were also both first choice. 

[Bris Vegas]

13 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

 

At least choose a story and stick to it. 

Iniesta still played in more games than any other CM during that season. Marquez and Silvinho (played more than Van Bronckhorst) were also both first choice. 

Iniesta played in more games in what season? He was a squad player utility man in 2006 and alongside Messi and Xavi missed out on a starting berth in the 2006 CL final.

I assumed Xavi was a regular, but turns out he wasn't.

Marquez and Sylvinho weren't regulars in Pep's side. The latter made about four starts all season.

I'm not even sure why we're even discussing this. Like I said, Pep and Conte's arrivals at Barca and Chelsea aren't comparable at all.

Pep created the best team ever. Conte has just won the PL with a set of players who won it 15 months ago.

Conte has the ability to become Chelsea's greatest ever manager, better than Mou, but his first season isn't some miracle job. If he wins it again next year it will be a bigger feat as he has to juggle European football.

[TigerTedd]

9 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

I don't know what that has to do with the Conte/Pep.

Pep didn't take over a winning side, Conte did. That's not to say that Conte hasn't done a great job this season because he has. In fact, Chelsea are more entertaining this season in their style of play as I can remember.

But the real challenge is to come as the squad he has now have already been PL winners.

Pep didn't take over a squad of La Liga winners. He took over a few La Liga winners, the rest he helped them become winners.

Rijkaard had very little to do with any part of Barcelona's ensuing success just like Nigel Pearson at Leicester City. Pep created the best team ever, he didn't just have it on a plate for him.

I don't know what this has to do with live games.