Sexydadbod Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 Portugal were the only team that didn't lose in the tournament. They were the best team. They were the best of a bad bunch but they were still the best, hence why they won. The only thing that let Portugal down was their forward play but the other aspects of their game were very good. Defending is an art just like attacking is, Portugal play better with the underdog tag. In the group stages they were expected to force the play whereas in the knockout stages teams came onto them which suited their counter attacking play. I don't see how this is really an issue. Atletico Madrid lost to Levante in La Liga but knocked both Bayern and Barcelona out of the champions league within a few weeks of that defeat. The only reason why they weren't convincing in the group stages was because they weren't comfortable with attacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 8 minutes ago, McLovin said: Portugal were the only team that didn't lose in the tournament. They were the best team. They were the best of a bad bunch but they were still the best, hence why they won. The only thing that let Portugal down was their forward play but the other aspects of their game were very good. Defending is an art just like attacking is, Portugal play better with the underdog tag. In the group stages they were expected to force the play whereas in the knockout stages teams came onto them which suited their counter attacking play. I don't see how this is really an issue. Atletico Madrid lost to Levante in La Liga but knocked both Bayern and Barcelona out of the champions league within a few weeks of that defeat. The only reason why they weren't convincing in the group stages was because they weren't comfortable with attacking. They finished 3rd in their group. They shouldn't have qualified, saved by a **** tournament system. They had one of the easiest runs to the final any team has ever had. They were not the best team. The notion of whoever wins the final of a knockout tournament were the best team is completely missing the point of a knockout tournament. A league finds out who the best team is. A knockout tournament is supposed to surprise, be unpredictable and create a higher proportion of exciting games than the league system. I'm by no means suggesting Portugal were undeserving, whoever wins deserves to win, but they were by no means the best team, that's the point of knockout football. Also this tournament was boring as ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 26 minutes ago, SaintRam said: They finished 3rd in their group. They shouldn't have qualified, saved by a **** tournament system. They had one of the easiest runs to the final any team has ever had. They were not the best team. The notion of whoever wins the final of a knockout tournament were the best team is completely missing the point of a knockout tournament. A league finds out who the best team is. A knockout tournament is supposed to surprise, be unpredictable and create a higher proportion of exciting games than the league system. I'm by no means suggesting Portugal were undeserving, whoever wins deserves to win, but they were by no means the best team, that's the point of knockout football. Also this tournament was boring as ****. Who do you think were the best team then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 3 minutes ago, McLovin said: Who do you think were the best team then? One of Germany, Italy, France for me, overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 Portugal were only as good as Iceland, but on the other half of the draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 Portugal won their last 7 qualifying games..... Undefeated throughout tournament..... I don't buy this "one win in 90 minutes" argument whatsoever. Wonder if anyone mentioned that during Euro 96 we only won twice in 90 minutes? Everyone knows the state of play at start of tournament..... If there's a draw at end of knockout it's extra time. Don't just stop playing, or say.... Yes you scored to win in extra time but it's only half a win for that..... Doesn't mean as much..... Poppycock, they know the rules. Football snobbery to dismiss it as a poor tournament with poor "champions" Portugal deserved it...... They wanted it...... They got it. Well done. Moan all you like guys and girls, they won it fair and square..... They are not poor champions..... They are the best team in Europe.... Same as Leicester being best in England this current season. No I in team..... However you get the result, they are there to win games..... And win they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 Just now, Mafiabob said: Portugal won their last 7 qualifying games..... Undefeated throughout tournament..... I don't buy this "one win in 90 minutes" argument whatsoever. Wonder if anyone mentioned that during Euro 96 we only won twice in 90 minutes? Everyone knows the state of play at start of tournament..... If there's a draw at end of knockout it's extra time. Don't just stop playing, or say.... Yes you scored to win in extra time but it's only half a win for that..... Doesn't mean as much..... Poppycock, they know the rules. Football snobbery to dismiss it as a poor tournament with poor "champions" Portugal deserved it...... They wanted it...... They got it. Well done. Moan all you like guys and girls, they won it fair and square..... They are not poor champions..... They are the best team in Europe.... Same as Leicester being best in England this current season. No I in team..... However you get the result, they are there to win games..... And win they did. I'm not saying they are poor. I'm not saying they didn't win it fair and square. I'm saying you're missing the point of tournament football and that angle remains entirely unchanged. By your logic, how can Leicester be the best team in England (which they are) if Man Utd won the FA Cup? And were Greece the best team in Europe in 2004? **** no. Winner of tournament football ≠ best team in that tournament. Sometimes they happen to be, but often the best team doesn't win a knockout tournament and that's ENTIRELY THE POINT OF KNOCKOUT TOURNAMENTS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 Just now, SaintRam said: I'm not saying they are poor. I'm not saying they didn't win it fair and square. I'm saying you're missing the point of tournament football and that angle remains entirely unchanged. By your logic, how can Leicester be the best team in England (which they are) if Man Utd won the FA Cup? And were Greece the best team in Europe in 2004? **** no. Winner of tournament football ≠ best team in that tournament. Sometimes they happen to be, but often the best team doesn't win a knockout tournament and that's ENTIRELY THE POINT OF KNOCKOUT TOURNAMENTS. So we should have a international league then? I couldn't name one sport that does that. See your point mind..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 3 minutes ago, Mafiabob said: So we should have a international league then? I couldn't name one sport that does that. See your point mind..... No I don't think we should. I don't think we need to identify the best international team without any doubt. I enjoy tournament football, I enjoy tournaments, I've said multiple times I'm not begrudging Portugal of their victory I just disagree with the sentiment that they are the best international team in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 I don't like Portugal but I really don't think people are giving Portugal the credit they deserve. To finish unbeaten in any international competition is very impressive. Even the great Spanish team of 2010 didn't finish unbeaten in the world cup, who whilst I'm on the topic were really, really boring by winning by the odd goal too. They relied on David Villa so much but I dont see anyone criticizing them and should have smashed teams with the team they had. If England had won the tournament playing "horribly" no-one in this thread would be complaining. I don't buy the argument that Portugal relied on luck because name me a successful international team that hasn't had luck? Had this been Italy who played like this everyone would be saying that it was an Italian masterclass. In 10-20 years no-one is going to remember the way Portugal played or who they played, they will only remember that they won the euros. There was no stand out team in the euros like in the last couple so to say that Portugal didn't deserve to win sounds like sour grapes to me because no other team deserved to win unlike in euro 2012 ,where it was clear that Spain were head and shoulders above the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 1 hour ago, Mostyn6 said: Portugal were only as good as Iceland, but on the other half of the draw. Portugal beat the team in the final that smashed Iceland in the quarter-finals so no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 5 hours ago, SaintRam said: They finished 3rd in their group. They shouldn't have qualified, saved by a **** tournament system. They had one of the easiest runs to the final any team has ever had. They were not the best team. The notion of whoever wins the final of a knockout tournament were the best team is completely missing the point of a knockout tournament. A league finds out who the best team is. A knockout tournament is supposed to surprise, be unpredictable and create a higher proportion of exciting games than the league system. I'm by no means suggesting Portugal were undeserving, whoever wins deserves to win, but they were by no means the best team, that's the point of knockout football. Also this tournament was boring as ****. They finished third....which is all they had to do to qualify...which is all you need to do in the group. So you cannot say they shouldn't have qualified because it is totally irrelevant. It is the same stupid argument thrown around bye very team that gets beat by a team that finished 6th in the play offs... The rules are set up before the competition starts, everyone knows them. Portugal were deserved champions, they were the best team in the competitor because they played the competition and won. and I have to say I was really impressed with Ronaldo and how he conducted himself in the final, anyone slagging him off for crying wants to look back at 1990. I though Nani was excellent, one of the players of the tournament (and normally I can't stand him) and Pepe was incredible, really incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 28 minutes ago, MuespachRam said: They finished third....which is all they had to do to qualify...which is all you need to do in the group. So you cannot say they shouldn't have qualified because it is totally irrelevant. It is the same stupid argument thrown around bye very team that gets beat by a team that finished 6th in the play offs... The rules are set up before the competition starts, everyone knows them. Portugal were deserved champions, they were the best team in the competitor because they played the competition and won. and I have to say I was really impressed with Ronaldo and how he conducted himself in the final, anyone slagging him off for crying wants to look back at 1990. I though Nani was excellent, one of the players of the tournament (and normally I can't stand him) and Pepe was incredible, really incredible. thought the young left back raphael guerreiro was mighty impressive. Lot of people babbling on about England having a young squad. Well Portugal also had a number of young players, even if their centrebacks were older than most of Lisbon. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 6 hours ago, SaintRam said: I'm not saying they are poor. I'm not saying they didn't win it fair and square. I'm saying you're missing the point of tournament football and that angle remains entirely unchanged. By your logic, how can Leicester be the best team in England (which they are) if Man Utd won the FA Cup? And were Greece the best team in Europe in 2004? **** no. Winner of tournament football ≠ best team in that tournament. Sometimes they happen to be, but often the best team doesn't win a knockout tournament and that's ENTIRELY THE POINT OF KNOCKOUT TOURNAMENTS. You are correct about tournaments not always being won by the best team. I'd even suggest that not all leagues are won by the best teams. Despite cliches to the contrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 8 hours ago, Mostyn6 said: wow, are you sure you even watched? Only the final was crap, but almost every other game was a ding dong battle, especially in the knock-out stages. There were plenty of 3-2s etc. Did you watch Holland v Germany? Arguably the best international game I've ever seen. Watched it from start to finish. The 1990 World Cup has the lowest goal to game ratio of any World Cup in history. The only 3-2 in the whole tournament was England vs Cameroon. The other 3 quater-finals were 1-0, 0-0, and 1-0. The two semi finals were 1-1 AET, went to penalties. The final was 1-0, decided by a penalty. First tournament were Brazil decided not to play exciting attractive football, scoring 4 goals in 4 matches. Just because our respective countries had good tournaments doesn't mean we should look with rose tinted glasses. For me it was football's nadir. 1986....now that was a great tournament! But on the other hand appreciating footballing quality is totally subjective and there is no wrong or right here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 15 minutes ago, Highgate said: You are correct about tournaments not always being won by the best team. I'd even suggest that not all leagues are won by the best teams. Despite cliches to the contrary. The best team ALWAYS without exception (i guess you could say unless someone got 20 points deducted because they were bankrupt or something) but, the best team ALWAYS wins the league. the second best team ALWAYS comes second and the worst team ALWAYS comes last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 56 minutes ago, MuespachRam said: The best team ALWAYS without exception (i guess you could say unless someone got 20 points deducted because they were bankrupt or something) but, the best team ALWAYS wins the league. the second best team ALWAYS comes second and the worst team ALWAYS comes last. Nonsense. You are forgetting to factor in luck. Which despite what people may say, does not balance itself out over the course of a season. Why would it? However, the league table is a very good reflection of the quality of teams over the season , no doubt about that. But it's not perfect. And there is also bias to be considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 7 hours ago, Mafiabob said: Portugal won their last 7 qualifying games..... Undefeated throughout tournament..... I don't buy this "one win in 90 minutes" argument whatsoever. Wonder if anyone mentioned that during Euro 96 we only won twice in 90 minutes? Everyone knows the state of play at start of tournament..... If there's a draw at end of knockout it's extra time. Don't just stop playing, or say.... Yes you scored to win in extra time but it's only half a win for that..... Doesn't mean as much..... Poppycock, they know the rules. Football snobbery to dismiss it as a poor tournament with poor "champions" Portugal deserved it...... They wanted it...... They got it. Well done. Moan all you like guys and girls, they won it fair and square..... They are not poor champions..... They are the best team in Europe.... Same as Leicester being best in England this current season. No I in team..... However you get the result, they are there to win games..... And win they did. England undefeated in qualifying and only lost one game in the tournament, that must put us on a par with France, Germany, Italy etc then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEL Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 Bring back 16 teams and stick with it. Euro 2016 been **** and worst tournament in my lifetime. Apparently there will be 32 teams in 2024 I hope not though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 On 10/07/2016 at 23:35, Rampage said: England - Involved in most if not all of the bad behaviour Played most ancient type of football for most of it - take half an hour to reach half way line and be surprised that eleven defenders are already there to head or kick it back. Iceland and Wales are proper football teams, England is not, hello! Manager is very good at defeating lower teams in qualifiers and hopeless in tournaments. 2020 - see 2016 for details Normally like your posts @Rampage but think your first paragraph is out of order. If you call innocent people getting randomly beaten up by some psychopathic Russian thugs 'being involved in trouble' then I think you're wrong. There were plenty of other incidents Croatia and Albania during matches, French fans rioting after the final...very little mention of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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