eddie Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 8 hours ago, PrivateDerby said: One thing I've noticed is how feminine men have become over the last ten years or so. Someone would see a comment like the one Nigel made in the paper, read it out loud to the lads at work and everyone would go "ah well, who knows..." Now it's "how dare they this"..."can you believe he said that" deary me. Only he knows what work he put into Derby and only he knows how he was treated, up to him what he wants to say. The butthurt is strong with some, Obi-Wan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 17 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said: Those clubs who were reluctant to loan players to us under NC? We got Ayala and Brad Jones on loan from Liverpool. We got Smith and Carroll from Spurs. MIchael Keanes loan from Man Utd was arranged and over the line before NC was kicked out. Is that last paragraph fact Ronnie? I remember hearing a different version of events at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 17 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Is that last paragraph fact Ronnie? I remember hearing a different version of events at the time. it was printed on the Friday before the Forest match that it had been agreed. dET I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted June 19, 2016 Author Share Posted June 19, 2016 25 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said: Those clubs who were reluctant to loan players to us under NC? We got Ayala and Brad Jones on loan from Liverpool. We got Smith and Carroll from Spurs. MIchael Keanes loan from Man Utd was arranged and over the line before NC was kicked out. That is what I heard, 4 players in 4 1/2 years? Yet in 4 1/2 months under Steve we had loaned Wisdom, Dawkins, Keane and Bamford. Keane was lined up before Clough went but didn't sign for another 2 months after he left? Righto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nottingram Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 45 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said: Those clubs who were reluctant to loan players to us under NC? We got Ayala and Brad Jones on loan from Liverpool. We got Smith and Carroll from Spurs. MIchael Keanes loan from Man Utd was arranged and over the line before NC was kicked out. But realistically how many of those players were signed with an eye on us developing them and not just as a chance for them to earn a contract elsewhere? Only Keane probably, the rest were realistically never good enough for their parent clubs. I'm not a Clough basher by any means and genuinely think he did a good job here but I don't think it's unfair to say the standard of player available improved markedly after he left, and not for budgetary reasons. As an example I remember Rodgers saying he wanted Ibe to work with McClaren. I can't imagine he would've said the same about Clough. He did a good job here and was probably sacked unclassily, but that has happened now. The club has moved on, I think it's time the fans and he himself did as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevor1946 Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 On 6/18/2016 at 11:17, Sparkle said: Nigel clough did what he was supposed to do, he worked very hard as everybody should do and changed the face of the squad he was rewarded in the form of money and credit for following jobs, we all wanted more but it never looked like it was ever going to happen so thank you again and good look to him and he should be grateful for ever having the opportunity especially for four and a half years. That is why his, time here was wasted---Never looked like it was going to happen.,3 years later it never happened. With a fantastic squad he left,not my words,but Sam Rush,and Steve McClaren,with a tremendous team spirit Derby County are a good club to manage,not to be Head Coach,3 in 3 years, Not enough time to name all the other good clubs to manage. You only get four and a half years in management if you do a good job. Back to basics 4 years of hard graft wasted-----2016----17 = championship football for Derby County Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 3 minutes ago, trevor1946 said: That is why his, time here was wasted---Never looked like it was going to happen.,3 years later it never happened. With a fantastic squad he left,not my words,but Sam Rush,and Steve McClaren,with a tremendous team spirit Derby County are a good club to manage,not to be Head Coach,3 in 3 years, Not enough time to name all the other good clubs to manage. You only get four and a half years in management if you do a good job. Back to basics 4 years of hard graft wasted-----2016----17 = championship football for Derby County Or maybe he got four and half years because he never rocked the boat? Maybe he knew the owners were happy if he kept us ticking along whilst reducing costs. And maybe he was happy knowing that there was very little expectation of him operating under financial restraints. Not sure what you see as a waste. The players we can now attract, the owner we have attracted the manager we have attracted, the season ticket numbers, the sponsorship, the corporate income...these are all possible because of what has happened over the last 5 or 6 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted June 19, 2016 Author Share Posted June 19, 2016 4 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Or maybe he got four and half years because he never rocked the boat? Maybe he knew the owners were happy if he kept us ticking along whilst reducing costs. And maybe he was happy knowing that there was very little expectation of him operating under financial restraints. Not sure what you see as a waste. The players we can now attract, the owner we have attracted the manager we have attracted, the season ticket numbers, the sponsorship, the corporate income...these are all possible because of what has happened over the last 5 or 6 years. But more importantly with what has happened in since October 2013. The easy on the eye football for the most part, winning more games than losing, competing at the top of the table not towards the bottom or being happy with a 10th place finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 1 minute ago, rynny said: But more importantly with what has happened in since October 2013. The easy on the eye football for the most part, winning more games than losing, competing at the top of the table not towards the bottom or being happy with a 10th place finish. Yes, I agree but the 3 or 4 years before that set us on the path, we even showed glimpses of the the football that became the norm once NC left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted June 19, 2016 Author Share Posted June 19, 2016 1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said: Yes, I agree but the 3 or 4 years before that set us on the path, we even showed glimpses of the the football that became the norm once NC left. I am not denying, just that we got into a patch where we were stale and inconsistent, and the kick up the arse we needed was supplied by Clough being relieved from his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 On the subject of loans, wasn't one of Nigel's first actions to return a bunch of loanees for not being good enough? Oh, and we had Jake Livermoor on loan who hated it and didn't try and said as much after he left? (vague memories floating around) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 3 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: Is that last paragraph fact Ronnie? I remember hearing a different version of events at the time. Yes it's fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 3 hours ago, rynny said: That is what I heard, 4 players in 4 1/2 years? Yet in 4 1/2 months under Steve we had loaned Wisdom, Dawkins, Keane and Bamford. Keane was lined up before Clough went but didn't sign for another 2 months after he left? Righto. I didn't realise there was a time limit on it Rynny, just that you said clubs didn't want to loan to players to us and mentioned Liverpool, Chelsea and man Utd. I forgot about Livermore and didn't bother mentioning Barazite. (Aresnal) The quality of the loan signings got better cos the league position improved. Of course that is down to Steve's input. I'll give you that. Clubs were more willing to loan better players to a team in and around the play off places. The Keane deal got postponed, can you not remember why? Whitbread came in on loan instead, the same Whitbread that NC wouldn't sign on loan because one of the conditions was the GUARANTEED permanent signing at the end of his loan period. NC spoke to Paul Lambert to ask him about Zak, said he was a good lad and a good player but unfortunately constantly injured. Either Steve McC (before he was announced) or Sam Rush sanctioned the signing of Whitbread,with that condition attached so Keane was put on the back burner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 17 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said: Yes it's fact. Cheers Ronnie Knew there was a disagreement between Rush and Clough over a signing but I had been led to believe it was Keane, rather than Whitbread, hence why I asked the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 3 hours ago, nottingram said: But realistically how many of those players were signed with an eye on us developing them and not just as a chance for them to earn a contract elsewhere? Only Keane probably, the rest were realistically never good enough for their parent clubs. I'm not a Clough basher by any means and genuinely think he did a good job here but I don't think it's unfair to say the standard of player available improved markedly after he left, and not for budgetary reasons. As an example I remember Rodgers saying he wanted Ibe to work with McClaren. I can't imagine he would've said the same about Clough. He did a good job here and was probably sacked unclassily, but that has happened now. The club has moved on, I think it's time the fans and he himself did as well. Every one of them apart from Jones (who wasn't good enough for anyone never mind his parent club) is now playing Premier League football. Carroll is still at Spurs, Livermore at Hull, Smith at Bournemouth Keane at Burnley and Ayala at Boro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 10 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said: Every one of them apart from Jones (who wasn't good enough for anyone never mind his parent club) is now playing Premier League football. Carroll is still at Spurs, Livermore at Hull, Smith at Bournemouth Keane at Burnley and Ayala at Boro. Only one of those (Caroll) still at their original club we loaned from. Boy we were quick to judge him here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimmu Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 Some people needs to move on. We've had two managers since Clough... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 5 minutes ago, Dimmu said: Some people needs to move on. We've had two managers since Clough... You could say Clough needs to move on...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nottingram Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 29 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said: Every one of them apart from Jones (who wasn't good enough for anyone never mind his parent club) is now playing Premier League football. Carroll is still at Spurs, Livermore at Hull, Smith at Bournemouth Keane at Burnley and Ayala at Boro. As mafiabob says, all but one have left permanently. So I'd argue that we were used as a vehicle to earn a permanent contract elsewhere rather than as a viable place to develop the player. The fact that all of those players looked decidedly average here and have then developed elsewhere isn't testament to Clough's coaching. He did lots of good things here but we don't need to pretend he was something he wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 Foolish statement. A pity because given the circumstances he did a solid workmanlike job. He could spot a good player better than many other managers at this level but he lacked the skills to get the best out of them. It comes across as finding someone else to blame other than himself .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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