North_Stand_Ram Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 Ok, now this isn't me pointing blame at individuals, but if it time for a change in system and culture within the team? He has been arguably the best free signing in our recent history, but we have created a brand of football evolved around Chris Martin for 3 seasons now, and we are still a championship club. Let's be honest, when it works, it bloody works, and it's great, but recently it has become stale, and this is becoming more and more common. Is it time to embrace the style of football of the last 3 champions of the division (Leicester, Bournemouth and Burnley) and play with pace in forward areas with a 4-4-2, or a different formation? Will the formation be considered in the recruitment process in the summer? Again, I'm not just moaning about Martin, because there were 11 individuals out there today (and individuals being the key word) who didn't perform. This is not a sell Martin thread, he is key to our success, but is deploying a system solely around him becoming more and more predictable for sides? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 I would like us to pass properly to each other a bit more. No need for fast tempo at this stage. Just finding our man on a regular basis would be lovely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posh Ram Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 Our strength is in central midfield and our weakness is on the wings. Why not go with a 4-4-2 diamond, which would either allow Hughes to hugely influence play or let Ince play in a role he's looked pretty good in. Our full-backs provide us with enough width anyway, meaning that wingers have become a bit of a liability. I'd go with this team Carson Christie/Keogh/Shackell/Olsson Hanson Thorne/Bryson Hughes Martin/Weimann In Leicester terms, Martin would be Okazaki and Weimann would be Vardy, although we'd be playing a slightly different formation. When going forward, Hanson would drop back into a back three and the full-backs would push on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Ram Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 We need a side with like for like replacements who all compliment each others game For every will hughes tecnically gifted player we need a daryl powell type. At times we play some good fast flowing football and this is the 'derby way' morris wants. But it doesnt win leagues, sometimes you need route one football, clattering into people, grinding out results and players that will stand up and be counted. Where is our hard man that bullys the opposition & does the dirty stuff ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DenbyRam Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 Totally agree. We are over reliant on Martin, and the Thorne role. When they're missing, whether through injury, suspension or simply off their game, the team as a whole suffers. Three years of failure, and as much we all love Chris and George, we need to be bigger than one or two players. It's time one for big changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Am Sheep Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 7 minutes ago, North_Stand_Ram said: Ok, now this isn't me pointing blame at individuals, but if it time for a change in system and culture within the team? He has been arguably the best free signing in our recent history, but we have created a brand of football evolved around Chris Martin for 3 seasons now, and we are still a championship club. Let's be honest, when it works, it bloody works, and it's great, but recently it has become stale, and this is becoming more and more common. Is it time to embrace the style of football of the last 3 champions of the division (Leicester, Bournemouth and Burnley) and play with pace in forward areas with a 4-4-2, or a different formation? Will the formation be considered in the recruitment process in the summer? Again, I'm not just moaning about Martin, because there were 11 individuals out there today (and individuals being the key word) who didn't perform. This is not a sell Martin thread, he is key to our success, but is deploying a system solely around him becoming more and more predictable for sides? I agree. I think Martin is a great player and has been an incredible signing for us but we have become so 1-dimensional it's embarrassing. When he isn't on the pitch the whole team look completely devoid of ideas. When things aren't going well and we can't get the ball to him (or he's asleep) the whole team look completely devoid of ideas. I'm not even convinced the current core of the team (i.e. Bryson, Russell et al) should also be kept or built around. We need to bring through these promising U21 players we have and build a team around a mix of pace, energy and flair that includes them. These young lads are hungry and turned around the disappointment of missing promotion last season to winning it this season. Most of our current squad is now used to being losers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckoBeast Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 Been saying for ages Derby need a pacy forward someone with out and out pace. Willing to run in behind and into the channels. Yes Martin on his day is fantastic, and I thought Blackman was the one who could mix things up and get in behind but that hasn't worked out. We need a quick CF, someone like Gayle, Wells, even Sam Winnall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiddingsRam Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 22 minutes ago, North_Stand_Ram said: Ok, now this isn't me pointing blame at individuals, but if it time for a change in system and culture within the team? He has been arguably the best free signing in our recent history, but we have created a brand of football evolved around Chris Martin for 3 seasons now, and we are still a championship club. Let's be honest, when it works, it bloody works, and it's great, but recently it has become stale, and this is becoming more and more common. Is it time to embrace the style of football of the last 3 champions of the division (Leicester, Bournemouth and Burnley) and play with pace in forward areas with a 4-4-2, or a different formation? Will the formation be considered in the recruitment process in the summer? Again, I'm not just moaning about Martin, because there were 11 individuals out there today (and individuals being the key word) who didn't perform. This is not a sell Martin thread, he is key to our success, but is deploying a system solely around him becoming more and more predictable for sides? I think we're k8 d of on the same wave length @North_Stand_Ram I posted this earlier After much deliberation , I didn't way to be a rash poster , posting in anger at another disappointment as a Rams fans I've had time to think. Things do need to change, we can't keep playing the same system , it's stagment too over reliant on Martin and Thorne. I'm not saying a drastic change is required but changes are needed , Martin especially very tough call but I think his time as number 1 striker is up. We need a strikerwho has more than one side to his game , we have a serious lack of pace in the final 3rd , Ross McCormack would be perfect because there's more to his game. Maybe a change in system too and not be so reliant upon 4-3-3 maybe 4-2-3-1 so the main striker doesn't have to be one mould . Maybe I'm rambling on a bit but I just want to be happy a Rams fan ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 17 minutes ago, i-Ram said: I would like us to pass properly to each other a bit more. No need for fast tempo at this stage. Just finding our man on a regular basis would be lovely. Pretty much. All three Hull goals today came from us failing to find a white shirt. The number of times a Derby player with the ball became isolated, surrounded by 3 or 4 Hull players, was alarming. It was the worst 90 minutes I think I've witnessed since THAT season, and the worst performance in this division since shipping half a dozen at Coventry. But I still didn't boo, because I'm better than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JG400 Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 33 minutes ago, North_Stand_Ram said: Ok, now this isn't me pointing blame at individuals, but if it time for a change in system and culture within the team? He has been arguably the best free signing in our recent history, but we have created a brand of football evolved around Chris Martin for 3 seasons now, and we are still a championship club. Let's be honest, when it works, it bloody works, and it's great, but recently it has become stale, and this is becoming more and more common. Is it time to embrace the style of football of the last 3 champions of the division (Leicester, Bournemouth and Burnley) and play with pace in forward areas with a 4-4-2, or a different formation? Will the formation be considered in the recruitment process in the summer? Again, I'm not just moaning about Martin, because there were 11 individuals out there today (and individuals being the key word) who didn't perform. This is not a sell Martin thread, he is key to our success, but is deploying a system solely around him becoming more and more predictable for sides? Neither Russell or Ince can beat a man and get to the by-line and there in lies our problem , the only way to beat 2 banks of 4 is to get behind them , throwing a cross in early is meat and drink to a good defense, get to the by-line and put a ball in behind them is the answer , we need to replace at least one of them with a pacy winger who can beat a man , and then we need a striker who once in the while gets in front of a defender instead of throwing his arms in the air when the competent opposing defender between him and the ball has the temerity to actually collect the ball when it is crossed to them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 20 minutes ago, eddie said: Pretty much. All three Hull goals today came from us failing to find a white shirt. The number of times a Derby player with the ball became isolated, surrounded by 3 or 4 Hull players, was alarming. It was the worst 90 minutes I think I've witnessed since THAT season, and the worst performance in this division since shipping half a dozen at Coventry. But I still didn't boo, because I'm better than that. Agree with that. I didn't boo either but I did throw my scarf away in disgust, damn things are cursed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RicME85 Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 Getting to the by-line is pointless when Martin isn't in the box to get on the they and of it. The amount of times a cracking ball gets whipped in and there is no-one in the area to take advantage is crazy. Players don't seem to want to move to offer up options to the player on the ball which results in losing possession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiddingsRam Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 11 minutes ago, reveldevil said: Agree with that. I didn't boo either but I did throw my scarf away in disgust, damn things are cursed. I didn't boo either what's that going to achieve! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 1 hour ago, reveldevil said: Agree with that. I didn't boo either but I did throw my scarf away in disgust, damn things are cursed. What we need to do is to tie the Mel scraves to our wrists and do a little jig while waving our flanges in the air. We could call it Morris dancing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top 6 finish Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 Quote I'm glad that you have identified the cause of our problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maydrakin Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 My concern is that we have bought in too many "square pegs" this season. Blackman, Bent and Weimann are three really striking examples of centre forwards who do not suit our 4-3-3 system. The problem being that to accommodate them in their preferred position would mean that Thorne and Martin become less effective, as we are lined up for their strengths. We have also got a bloated central midfield in the 6 centre midfielders (Hendrick, Thorne, Hughes, Johnson, Butterfield and Bryson) where there are only 3 places available and 1 of those is suited to Thorne only from that group. You also have Hanson and Baird to slot in that role, but they aren't in the pecking order to bring in ahead of the "first choice" six, meaning you are not creating a happy competitive environment or you are unbalancing the team to try and give the senior members game time. It's time to trim the squad so we have a maximum of 20-22 hungry first team squad members, with two players for each position and the remainder are supplemented by the u21s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 Is the problem not about formations, systems, square pegs and all the rest? Or is it the fact that we don't have any intelegent players ( football inteligence) , we have a team that are fine when sent out with a plan and it's working ,, once over that line you need players that can work it out and adjust when it isn't ,, there in lies the problem time and time again we see a team that if its not working they just weakly go under,,, we also have lost the number one thing we had under Mac at our best ,,,,, movement off the ball, options for the player with the ball ,,, we heard all the false dawn stuff about wass has got us back to our old ways by getting the ball forward quicker ,total balls he is getting it forward quicker by punting long or diagonal from players not noted for passing accuracy so the minute we come up against a decent organised side like hull were yesterday we look abject,, wass is far from the answer we have swung from two extremes ,,, Clements keep the ball but do fu/k all with it stuff to wass give it away cheaply and constantly hopefull long balls stuff ,,,,, we have some fairly decent players at the club ,, get a proper manager in now and give him FULL power to prune and build ,, no more of this oh we just need a few tweaks stuff we need a major reshaping if we want a solid consistent team able to go up and stay up rather than a side able to look very good on its day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramarena Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 Whilst being a fan of Martin and the 4-3-3, yesterday was the first time I questioned it. We increasingly seem to play with a lack of pace and direction (like we did in 13/14,) we have had three season with the same formula and only once have we come close in the PO final. It could be time to look at a manger who has the know how to push us that one step further, if that means changing the formation, then maybe the time has come to do that. There is one thing that is glaringly obvious, this squad has a very soft underbelly, they don't have the mentality to win the big games on a regular basis. I fear we have a few too many mentally fragile players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie George Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 It's a mess from top to bottom and will take years to sort it out. We've gone back five years in the space of nine months. Playing staff again needs culling as it's to bloated and full of overpriced and overpaid dross. Be prepared for another three or more seasons of championship football before we get it right. Haven't we been here before ? Well done Mel Morris, you have single handedly destroyed the sole of this football club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JW37 Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 Carson Christie Keogh/New Shackell Olsson Thorne Johnson/New New Hughes Ince New A solid and reliable centre half An energetic ball winner A goal scoring winger A fast striker who can stretch defences All new signings have to be proven championship quality like Alan Judge for example that is how you get out of this division. And for god sake stop hoofing the ball up to Martin ffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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