Inglorius Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 I was made redundant recently and nothing was raised as a proposal for the government to buy out the factory I worked in using tax payers money. Discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramarena Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 19 minutes ago, Inglorius said: I was made redundant recently and nothing was raised as a proposal for the government to buy out the factory I worked in using tax payers money. Discuss. Sorry to hear that, hope you find work soon, or are able to do o.k via self employment or retirement. In terms of a government intervention was your factory/place of work of strategic important to the country? (that's not a sarcastic question) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inglorius Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 16 minutes ago, Ramarena said: Sorry to hear that, hope you find work soon, or are able to do o.k via self employment or retirement. In terms of a government intervention was your factory/place of work of strategic important to the country? (that's not a sarcastic question) Thanks for your sentiments I've been fortunate enough to secure a role elsewhere. The reason my factory was closed was that it was losing about 100 grand a month I heard on the radio today that the Tata plant in Port Talbot was losing something like that in a day obviously both businesses are economically unviable on that basis but I don't see anyone rushing to bail out my place of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramarena Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 49 minutes ago, Inglorius said: Thanks for your sentiments I've been fortunate enough to secure a role elsewhere. The reason my factory was closed was that it was losing about 100 grand a month I heard on the radio today that the Tata plant in Port Talbot was losing something like that in a day obviously both businesses are economically unviable on that basis but I don't see anyone rushing to bail out my place of work. Glad you've sorted out another role. The point I would make is that the Port Talbot plant is crucial to U.K infrastructure. I'm not sure where you worked, but I'm guessing it wasn't a strategic industry (correct me if I'm wrong). I can't think of an leading nations where steel production has ceased, it's integral to so many things we do, nuclear defence/military, power stations, railways, cars, buildings, etc, etc. Steel production is crucial for any country, sure you can buy it in, as we are increasingly doing, however if there were an increase international tensions, or god forbid a war, any country that could not produce it's own steel would be in serious trouble, or they could easily be held over a barrel. So that (in my opinion) is why the steel industry is a priority industry, despite not being a fan of bailing companies out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesterRam Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 So we are relying on Chinese imports, fantastic, let's not piss them off then else they could hold us to ransom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inglorius Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 16 minutes ago, Ramarena said: Glad you've sorted out another role. The point I would make is that the Port Talbot plant is crucial to U.K infrastructure. I'm not sure where you worked, but I'm guessing it wasn't a strategic industry (correct me if I'm wrong). I can't think of an leading nations where steel production has ceased, it's integral to so many things we do, nuclear defence/military, power stations, railways, cars, buildings, etc, etc. Steel production is crucial for any country, sure you can buy it in, as we are increasingly doing, however if there were an increase international tensions, or god forbid a war, any country that could not produce it's own steel would be in serious trouble, or they could easily be held over a barrel. So that (in my opinion) is why the steel industry is a priority industry, despite not being a fan of bailing companies out. Yes I can see your argument on the flip side of that I found it amazing thst the government saw fit to bail out the RBS with tax payers money and will never get back the money it invested in it which was mine and yours hard earned. The point I was trying to make was that if a business isn't viable then there's a reason for that bailing out a failing company with tax payers cash just glosses over the reason why the company is in that state in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inglorius Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 7 minutes ago, LesterRam said: So we are relying on Chinese imports, fantastic, let's not piss them off then else they could hold us to ransom. What other foreign imports do we rely on its not just steel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesterRam Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 33 minutes ago, Inglorius said: What other foreign imports do we rely on its not just steel Correct mate but this is essential to this country, maybe a subsidy on fuel duty to allow it to compete effectively, I don't want another coal community that never recovered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Two words Thatchers Britain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inglorius Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 38 minutes ago, LesterRam said: Correct mate but this is essential to this country, maybe a subsidy on fuel duty to allow it to compete effectively, I don't want another coal community that never recovered. I don't agree it's essential to this country at all I guess you would say the same about the mining industry look where that is now but our economy is still doing well relative to other EU nations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 14 minutes ago, Boycie said: Two words Thatchers Britain You're obsessed man, give over. Other cider makes are available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inglorius Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 15 minutes ago, Boycie said: Two words Thatchers Britain I didn't see Tony Blair rushing to open the pits again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesterRam Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 2 minutes ago, Inglorius said: I don't agree it's essential to this country at all I guess you would say the same about the mining industry look where that is now but our economy is still doing well relative to other EU nations Our economy is on its knees, don't let anybody tell you differently, we currently have an 87% service industry economy, this will only end one way and its not going to be good, letting good manufacturing jobs fail makes us reliant on other nations, never a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Unfortunately the European steel making capacity totally out weighs the current demand, this is made worse with cheap foreign imports (not just China but Brazil and Russia also). All in all it makes poor performing plants even more uncompetitive, especially when they are running at low volumes but still carrying huge overheads. However If anyone thinks the Chinese will keep the Steel prices low once the supply has been reduced (switching off the UK plants) then they are fools. Once the prices go up, guess what the end user will put their prices up, which means our cars, our white goods etc etc will cost more, this will hit us all in the pocket. We need to save our steel industry not just for the thousands of jobs, not just for the strategic importance to this country's but also to protect our economy. Letting Port Talbot, Aldwarke and Ssausagehrope cease production would be criminal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 The cost of losing our steel industry far outweighs the cost of bringing it under public control. I have never seen or heard an argument yet that will convince me the country is better off with its main utilities privatised. Health, The Military, Police, Gas, Water, Electricity, Border control, Steel, Rail, Roads, Prisons should all be run for the benefit of the majority of the people of the UK and not for stock market gamblers who are a very small % of the population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 steel industry and manufacturing in general are essential to a strong economy. Without the ability to produce your own you are at the liberty of those you buy from. we have had issues over gas prices because we cant store enough to protect against high prices. if we leave the EU we need strong manufacturing sector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 9 hours ago, LesterRam said: Our economy is on its knees, don't let anybody tell you differently, we currently have an 87% service industry economy, this will only end one way and its not going to be good, letting good manufacturing jobs fail makes us reliant on other nations, never a good idea. The economy does still seem to be struggling, did anyone think it would take this long? I sort of remember the recession in the 90's and it didnt take anywhere near as long as this, so i suspect this one was much worse. I am not an expert or even close to understanding what went wrong, but in my non expert view it sort of seemed that this happened: The economy (mostly worldwide) was in a boom late 90's early to mid 00's, banks decided it would be a good idea to offer people as much credit/loans as anyone wanted, hey lets give 120% mortgages and the like - lets no one sit down and go hey what happens if this thing slows down - should we just try and be a little bit more prudent and someone else who is due to earn £1mil bonus goes nah **** that lets just live for today. So then everything started to slow - dont know why, im sure someone does - and banks started to run out of money - to make matters worse the british media (and im sure worldwide) decided to make matters worse by plastering headlines telling everyone banks have no money so everyone gets down to their bank, and starts to take all their money out the banking system causing a whole heap of trouble. The government bails out the banks with our money, then decides the way out of the mess is to throw money at it (car scrappage scheme reducing vat etc) - this didnt work, just created a bigger hole to be filled. New government comes in and decides only way out is to scrimp and save our way out which is still going on. What is the answer? Thats how i, someone who hasnt a clue, sees it, i am sure its far more complex than that, i really hope a solution is found for the steel industry problem, i have just been made redundant myself and at 45 my prospects arent great, i hope these workers dont have to face this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 8 hours ago, davenportram said: steel industry and manufacturing in general are essential to a strong economy. Without the ability to produce your own you are at the liberty of those you buy from. Maybe, but when you can't produce your own competitively because developing countries all round the world can do it far cheaper, you have no option but to look elsewhere or nationalise it all and be OK with it running at huge losses and be bailed out by the taxpayer constantly. Hell, China was opening a new steel plant every week a few years ago. There's no way we can compete against that - and in my view, we shouldn't be trying to. We're far better looking at high value / high tech manufacturing - which we are very good at and have been very successful at in recent years. It doesn't make the headlines because we're talking 100 SME's growing to maybe employing 50 people, rather than a single steel plant employing 5000. I work with some of these companies and IMO the only way we can have a successful manufacturing iondustry in the future is to: 1. Come up with an idea 2. Patent/Protect it 3. Develop it 4. Get to market 5. Licence the technology as wide as possible in other countries, as quickly as possible. 6. Once you see low cost competition starting to take hold, have an exit strategy and concentrate on the next idea. There is no point long term competing on price. You only have a chance while you still have a quality advantage and the low cost economies will catch up eventually. I work with companies and help them in stages 2, 3 and 4 and there is UK government and EU funding available, to help - though UK funding is under review and we are awaiting an imminent announcement as to if it's going to be scrapped - which would be horrendous for UK innovation. IMO, if the steel plant is losing £1m per day, we'd be far better investing that money instead in (new) small companies who have a chance of surviving long-term and providing higher value employment opportunities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 As a start, we (the state) should be building our own nuclear power stations and specifying that everything should be sourced in the UK. We have the technology and the skills. It's criminal that we're expecting the French & Chinese to do it for us. Use the HS2 money to do it. I'm not that fussed about driving 30 minutes to the HS2 hub, to then save 10 minutes on my journey to London. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 20,000 pubs have closed in the past 10 years, with the loss of 200,000 jobs. Maybe we should have nationalised them and run them at a loss at the taxpayers' expense? The local boozer/Village pub is critical to social cohesion and rural community building after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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