British Steel industry

[Stive Pesley]

44 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

20,000 pubs have closed in the past 10 years, with the loss of 200,000 jobs.

Maybe we should have nationalised them and run them at a loss at the taxpayers' expense?

That's certainly spending my tax dollar in a way I approve of!

 

[King Kevin]

50 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

20,000 pubs have closed in the past 10 years, with the loss of 200,000 jobs.

Maybe we should have nationalised them and run them at a loss at the taxpayers' expense?

The local boozer/Village pub is critical to social cohesion and rural community building after all.

Bugger the steel ,I'll vote for that.

[Shang]

Steel is vitally important to a countries security. It's intrinsically tied to our national and economic security (what the Conservatives blab on about). If we lose steel and have to out-source it, we could be held to ransom (by being cost prohibitive) by another country and that country is overwhelmingly looking to be like China.

Steel builds our (crumbling) transport infrastructure, nothing moves without steel. Steel features in our vehicles and construction equipment. Steel holds our buildings, bridges, flats and homes up. Steel is used in a lot of new wave innovations  and technologies such as driverless cars. And Britain has the best steel makers in the world.

You think things are expensive now? If we rely on other countries to supply it to us on the cheap out of the goodness of their own hearts then we are delusional. Countries would love the opportunity to knock the UK down a peg.

We should do everything we can to protect this. When we lose steel, we lose those skilled workers, who will go to work for the competition or give up. Generations of knowledge will be gone to waste or used against us.

[Wolfie]

23 minutes ago, Shang said:

Steel is vitally important to a countries security. It's intrinsically tied to our national and economic security (what the Conservatives blab on about). If we lose steel and have to out-source it, we could be held to ransom (by being cost prohibitive) by another country and that country is overwhelmingly looking to be like China.

Steel builds our (crumbling) transport infrastructure, nothing moves without steel. Steel features in our vehicles and construction equipment. Steel holds our buildings, bridges, flats and homes up. Steel is used in a lot of new wave innovations  and technologies such as driverless cars. And Britain has the best steel makers in the world.

You think things are expensive now? If we rely on other countries to supply it to us on the cheap out of the goodness of their own hearts then we are delusional. Countries would love the opportunity to knock the UK down a peg.

We should do everything we can to protect this. When we lose steel, we lose those skilled workers, who will go to work for the competition or give up. Generations of knowledge will be gone to waste or used against us.

Which would be a problem if we could opnly buy steel from China. What you're forgetting is that there are dozens of other friendly countries where we can buy steel from commercial companies at market price - because that's the point of a market.

It's just wrong to think that we could be held ransom for steel.

Skilled workers can be re-trained.

[Shang]

30 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

Which would be a problem if we could opnly buy steel from China. What you're forgetting is that there are dozens of other friendly countries where we can buy steel from commercial companies at market price - because that's the point of a market.

It's just wrong to think that we could be held ransom for steel.

Skilled workers can be re-trained.

There are only a handful of countries left who produce steel, and we'd be the only major economy not to produce our own. A friendly country could still hold us to ransom by shifting the markets into their favour and raising costs, a lot of these conglomerates who own these mills have been done for price fixing. Government purchases from local mills also means we can purchase steel at below market price. We will be losing out. More cost for tax payers for construction if materials cost more, probably more than we would pay to support the industry.

We will lose these skilled workers, they will go overseas to our competitors. We can't produce new high-skilled technologies if we don't keep the people at the forefront of alloys and metal. Companies who are looking to develop new technologies will look to see where the environment will allow them quick, cheap, less bureaucratic and tailored access to raw materials. If Apple or a car maker wanted to tweak or develop a strong thinner alloy for example, we wouldn't be able to accommodate them. We will be killing current and future jobs if we don't rescue this industry.

[ramsbottom]

If we gladly bail out soul-sucking bankers why can't we bail out the steel workers???  Oh that's right, steel workers don't attend uni at Oxford or Cambridge...

[Wolfie]

1 hour ago, Shang said:

There are only a handful of countries left who produce steel, and we'd be the only major economy not to produce our own. A friendly country could still hold us to ransom by shifting the markets into their favour and raising costs, a lot of these conglomerates who own these mills have been done for price fixing. Government purchases from local mills also means we can purchase steel at below market price. We will be losing out. More cost for tax payers for construction if materials cost more, probably more than we would pay to support the industry.

I just don't believe that would happen, so we'd have to agree to differ on this one.

 

Quote

We will lose these skilled workers, they will go overseas to our competitors. We can't produce new high-skilled technologies if we don't keep the people at the forefront of alloys and metal. Companies who are looking to develop new technologies will look to see where the environment will allow them quick, cheap, less bureaucratic and tailored access to raw materials. If Apple or a car maker wanted to tweak or develop a strong thinner alloy for example, we wouldn't be able to accommodate them. We will be killing current and future jobs if we don't rescue this industry.

Prior to my current role helping SME's be innovative, I have 16 years' experience in the high strength & exotic metals industry. The UK is at the forefront of metals technology. I have worked with the AMRC and NAMRC in Sheffield and they are right at the cutting edge.

If Apple or a car maker wanted a thinner alloy, it would be developed at somewhere like the AMRC and manufactured at one of the many smaller metal melters and rolling mills in the UK who are successful by specialising in high value/lower volume materials and probably cost £50 a kilo. It wouldn't go anywhere near the 5000 odd guys at the Tata rolling mills who churn out bog standard steel at 50p a kilo. That industry is dead. Sad but true.

[Stive Pesley]

6 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

I just don't believe that would happen, so we'd have to agree to differ on this one.

 

Prior to my current role helping SME's be innovative, I have 16 years' experience in the high strength & exotic metals industry. The UK is at the forefront of metals technology. I have worked with the AMRC and NAMRC in Sheffield and they are right at the cutting edge.

If Apple or a car maker wanted a thinner alloy, it would be developed at somewhere like the AMRC and manufactured at one of the many smaller metal melters and rolling mills in the UK who are successful by specialising in high value/lower volume materials and probably cost £50 a kilo. It wouldn't go anywhere near the 5000 odd guys at the Tata rolling mills who churn out bog standard steel at 50p a kilo. That industry is dead. Sad but true.

I tend to agree - large scale production of any base commodity is almost impossible to be competitive when you are a long standing developed nation with an expensive economy/workforce. It's sadly too late to do anything about the steel industry in this country and that's the saddest thing of all. The "fruits" of capitalism I'm afraid, but as Wolfie says you have to bolster investment in the specialist areas where we can compete.

Not saying there won't be knock-on effects in closing out steel industry - there will be communities devastated in much the same way that the closure of the coal fields did - not that the politicians will care

[Animal is a Ram]

RBS was bailed out to the tune of £45bn, IIRC.

That would keep Port Talbot open for 123 years, plugging that £1m/day deficit.

[Mafiabob]

7 hours ago, Animal is a Ram said:

RBS was bailed out to the tune of £45bn, IIRC.

That would keep Port Talbot open for 123 years, plugging that £1m/day deficit.

Shhhhh.... We're supposed to be dumbed down to not remember that... Gordon Brown saved the world remember 

[eddie]

18 hours ago, Wolfie said:

Which would be a problem if we could opnly buy steel from China. What you're forgetting is that there are dozens of other friendly countries where we can buy steel from commercial companies at market price - because that's the point of a market.

It's just wrong to think that we could be held ransom for steel.

Skilled workers can be re-trained.

Currently (2014 figures), China controls over 50% of the world's steel production. The next-highest single country is Japan at 7%, then USA at 5% followed closely by India and South Korea. Britain languishes in 20th place with less than 1%. I'd say that our steel industry is already dead and buried.

[LesterRam]

17 hours ago, eddie said:

Currently (2014 figures), China controls over 50% of the world's steel production. The next-highest single country is Japan at 7%, then USA at 5% followed closely by India and South Korea. Britain languishes in 20th place with less than 1%. I'd say that our steel industry is already dead and buried.

maybe you should go to the poor steelworkers who are currently looking for a new job and quote this stat, its an industry that is embedded in the fabric of local society, not dislike coal mining and the destruction of communities that lie in the east midlands, yes it was dirty and failed the EU air quality legislation but it was important to us and our communities.

if it was deemed not viable the government should have intervened earlier and helped the current workforce to retrain so they don't have to find work unskilled at 50 years old, instead they are left to fend for themselves, some of these poor ***** have huge over inflated mortgages that was reliant on a well paid job so the families suffer and the areas affected have no fall back industry.

our country is in its current position because we import more than we export, maybe our business secretary should earn his corn.

[SaintRam]

http://news.sky.com/story/1671109/china-hits-steel-made-in-uk-with-46-percent-levy

 

Don't need to post any of the article as the link is helpfully self-explanatory

[Inglorius]

2 hours ago, LesterRam said:

maybe you should go to the poor steelworkers who are currently looking for a new job and quote this stat, its an industry that is embedded in the fabric of local society, not dislike coal mining and the destruction of communities that lie in the east midlands, yes it was dirty and failed the EU air quality legislation but it was important to us and our communities.

if it was deemed not viable the government should have intervened earlier and helped the current workforce to retrain so they don't have to find work unskilled at 50 years old, instead they are left to fend for themselves, some of these poor ***** have huge over inflated mortgages that was reliant on a well paid job so the families suffer and the areas affected have no fall back industry.

our country is in its current position because we import more than we export, maybe our business secretary should earn his corn.

There's no jobs for life anymore if the steelworkers thought that then so more the fool them as soon as the bottom starting dropping out of the steel market I would have been looking round for other jobs or seeing what other skills I could have developed not waiting for the inevitable then expecting other people to start bailing them out

[LesterRam]

42 minutes ago, Inglorius said:

There's no jobs for life anymore if the steelworkers thought that then so more the fool them as soon as the bottom starting dropping out of the steel market I would have been looking round for other jobs or seeing what other skills I could have developed not waiting for the inevitable then expecting other people to start bailing them out

Or you could expect your own government to support you, what transferable skills could you implement in south wales when unemployment is high and skilled jobs not available.

[Inglorius]

21 minutes ago, LesterRam said:

Or you could expect your own government to support you, what transferable skills could you implement in south wales when unemployment is high and skilled jobs not available.

So obviously its totally unfeasible to consider relocating to another part of the UK or do the steel workers also expect prime jobs to be magically created on their doorsteps also

[Mafiabob]

1 minute ago, Inglorius said:

So obviously its totally unfeasible to consider relocating to another part of the UK or do the steel workers also expect prime jobs to be magically created on their doorsteps also

Totally unfeasabile if you consider it your home... And all your family and friends live there... Some of us still believe in community... That's what the government wants... Big Society and all that jazz. Funny we've not heard that phrase for a tad 

[Inglorius]

21 minutes ago, Mafiabob said:

Totally unfeasabile if you consider it your home... And all your family and friends live there... Some of us still believe in community... That's what the government wants... Big Society and all that jazz. Funny we've not heard that phrase for a tad 

What did Norman Tebbitt say about getting on your bike.....

[Mafiabob]

8 minutes ago, Inglorius said:

What did Norman Tebbitt say about getting on your bike.....

Wish life was that simple.... But it ain't really is it....

[Inglorius]

Life is simple its people who make things complicated