British Steel industry

[Mafiabob]

1 minute ago, Inglorius said:

Life is simple its people who make things complicated 

Something I agree with

[LesterRam]

1 hour ago, Inglorius said:

What did Norman Tebbitt say about getting on your bike.....

Was that about the impending obesity epidemic?

[Inglorius]

2 hours ago, LesterRam said:

Was that about the impending obesity epidemic?

Yes old Norman was a true visionary 

[eddie]

[SillyBilly]

This is the forces of globalization at work. A paradigm industry shift to jurisdictions of lower wages, lower taxes and less legal and regulatory considerations. I am right wing but I support action to save the UK's steel industry. There are very few exceptions where I believe a government has to, in the short term, interfere in a free market system (not that we have one) as part of a longer term economic strategy. This is an example.

Can anyone not see the long term lunacy of pouring an eye-watering % of national income into supporting a tax credit system (a state subsidy of an "industry" of low pay, low productivity, low value and no strategical significance) against supporting a high cost to entry, high skill barrier, productive, strategically important sector such as steel production? Our money should always support industry, not nail bar technicians or dog walkers. There is a warped fundamentalism, bound by political cowardice, of where state money should be directed for the good of everyone in the long run. We're quite happy to have subsidised EU membership of £55M/day (rebate not accounted for) which gives us no more benefit than a £0/day free trade deal the likes of Mexico get...and yet we can't plug a £1M/day hole in a critically important sector? Where the cost of re-entry in a brighter tomorrow would be billions. A £1M hole that would likely be far larger if we put the whole of Port Talbot on benefits and crush the entire local economy of the town.

Did anyone read in the news this week (the same time we're losing another productive industry) that the UK posted its largest current account deficit in recorded history in Q4 2015? Did anyone not see some sort of irony in this and a blueprint for the future? A trend? 2015 averaged a current account deficit of 5.2% as a whole, again the largest in recorded history. I trust people know what effect that sort of deficit would have on the £ were it not for the "confidence" of global investors? It is these investors and their foreign money currently supporting our national currency and therefore supporting our standard of living. Allowing us to import far more goods and services than we produce in return and with Jonny foreigner happily plugging the difference year after year. It is borrowed time thinking prevalent; they shut down every important industry we have (saying we can't support it) yet throw our money into supporting banks, supporting low value jobs over high values one and supporting an EU which is seemingly hell bent on seeing India and China hoover up global heavy industry. Really quite worrying how people think Britain is ever going to correct its current account deficit, exporting more banking?

[SillyBilly]

I would add that the incompetence of British politicians resoundingly trumps European ones here. To strike down increased tariffs on Chinese steel at the same time China has just bunked them up to 46%? Who are these idiots pulling the strings?

Is Gideon that desperate for Chinese money to rebuild our crumbling energy sector? Why is he so desperate to enter these hare-brained schemes to see the Chinese control another vital industry; to guarantee sale of units of electricity for decades at an agreed premium to the prevailing energy price? Seriously we're f**ked if this is the calibre of thinking we have.

Rolling over on the principles of a fair playing field for foreign money upfront (no regard for future implication). Short term thinking, we used to be America's b*tch, now we're China's as well.

[Ewetube]

14 minutes ago, SillyBilly said:

This is the forces of globalization at work. A paradigm industry shift to jurisdictions of lower wages, lower taxes and less legal and regulatory considerations. I am right wing but I support action to save the UK's steel industry. There are very few exceptions where I believe a government has to, in the short term, interfere in a free market system (not that we have one) as part of a longer term economic strategy. This is an example.

Can anyone not see the long term lunacy of pouring an eye-watering % of national income into supporting a tax credit system (a state subsidy of an "industry" of low pay, low productivity, low value and no strategical significance) against supporting a high cost to entry, high skill barrier, productive, strategically important sector such as steel production? Our money should always support industry, not nail bar technicians or dog walkers. There is a warped fundamentalism, bound by political cowardice, of where state money should be directed for the good of everyone in the long run. We're quite happy to have subsidised EU membership of £55M/day (rebate not accounted for) which gives us no more benefit than a £0/day free trade deal the likes of Mexico get...and yet we can't plug a £1M/day hole in a critically important sector? Where the cost of re-entry in a brighter tomorrow would be billions. A £1M hole that would likely be far larger if we put the whole of Port Talbot on benefits and crush the entire local economy of the town.

Did anyone read in the news this week (the same time we're losing another productive industry) that the UK posted its largest current account deficit in recorded history in Q4 2015? Did anyone not see some sort of irony in this and a blueprint for the future? A trend? 2015 averaged a current account deficit of 5.2% as a whole, again the largest in recorded history. I trust people know what effect that sort of deficit would have on the £ were it not for the "confidence" of global investors? It is these investors and their foreign money currently supporting our national currency and therefore supporting our standard of living. Allowing us to import far more goods and services than we produce in return and with Jonny foreigner happily plugging the difference year after year. It is borrowed time thinking prevalent; they shut down every important industry we have (saying we can't support it) yet throw our money into supporting banks, supporting low value jobs over high values one and supporting an EU which is seemingly hell bent on seeing India and China hoover up global heavy industry. Really quite worrying how people think Britain is ever going to correct its current account deficit, exporting more banking?

I look around my hometown and see empty mills and textile factories that once provided work and a valuable income and in many cases a second household income to many families in the town, producing premium brand clothing. This industry was allowed to whither and the "brands" were allowed to charge the same price for clothing now made in the third world for a fraction of the cost.

I see a derelict blot on the landscape, the ironworks that at one time employed thousands. This was allowed to be sold to a French company that closed it and moved production to France.

Add to this the mines closures and the closures of the support industries to the above, the closure of the small business (shops, pubs, chippies etc.) once reliant on the spending power of the local community and you start to see the death of a community. 

Repeat this around the country enough times and it will be the death of a nation with prime debt becoming toxic and history tells us what effect that has on the financial institutions.

We have quietly allowed our government to let us be sucked into a manufacturing black hole all in the name of a free market economy. A free market economy is all well and good if you are competing on a level playing field which of course we're not. It's about time we had a bit of good old-fashioned protectionism and investment in industry.

[LesterRam]

Anybody that is celebrating the dimese of an industry needs to take a serious look at themselves, you only have to look at coaling communities and see the deprivation it has caused, what a lovely thoughtful response by China, nothing like taking the piss when you are down.

[Ewetube]

20 hours ago, Inglorius said:

What did Norman Tebbitt say about getting on your bike.....

He said "He didn't riot. He got on his bike and looked for work and he kept looking until he found it."

Although in this day and age "in a jet" may be more appropriate than "on his bike".

[Ewetube]

7 minutes ago, LesterRam said:

Anybody that is celebrating the dimese of an industry needs to take a serious look at themselves, you only have to look at coaling communities and see the deprivation it has caused, what a lovely thoughtful response by China, nothing like taking the piss when you are down.

It's just another nail (made from Chinese steel) in the coffin of GB plc.

[SillyBilly]

38 minutes ago, Ewetube said:

I look around my hometown and see empty mills and textile factories that once provided work and a valuable income and in many cases a second household income to many families in the town, producing premium brand clothing. This industry was allowed to whither and the "brands" were allowed to charge the same price for clothing now made in the third world for a fraction of the cost.

I see a derelict blot on the landscape, the ironworks that at one time employed thousands. This was allowed to be sold to a French company that closed it and moved production to France.

Add to this the mines closures and the closures of the support industries to the above, the closure of the small business (shops, pubs, chippies etc.) once reliant on the spending power of the local community and you start to see the death of a community. 

Repeat this around the country enough times and it will be the death of a nation with prime debt becoming toxic and history tells us what effect that has on the financial institutions.

We have quietly allowed our government to let us be sucked into a manufacturing black hole all in the name of a free market economy. A free market economy is all well and good if you are competing on a level playing field which of course we're not. It's about time we had a bit of good old-fashioned protectionism and investment in industry.

Britain is the stalwart of global free market capitalism but paradoxically believes (rightly) in a National Health Service, a high minimum wage and a welfare state! You don't have to be an Einstein to know that will eventually lead to de-industralisation, a budget deficit, a current account deficit and declining living standards without some form of protectionism. This goes on until such a point (a financial crisis basically) where one of the conflicting ideals has to be dropped. Too late at that point I'd argue. To point this out in modern day Britain is tantamount to blasphemy. You can't state the simple fact that globalism won't support both when your competition doesn't. People are dumbed down, you only have to watch Question Time to see a frothing at the mouth liberal shouting down any serious debate on a topic, all to the backdrop of thundering applause!

I see the West engaged in frankly Kamikaze policies when it comes to economic strategy (right the way from industrial strategy to selling off the West's gold reserves to the East in exchange of paper) and I don't live in some kind of happy clappy utopia where this sort of policy won't come back to bite us in the arse in a big way. When the powder dynamics of the world naturally follow where industry has left then I will be wanting some explanations from the people who allowed this to happen. It is like we are being duped into not knowing what wealth creation actually is until it is gone.

[ladyram]

The British Steel Industry.

What British Steel Industry? It's been allowed to go to ruin, along with everything else that our communities once held dear, and all in the name of profit.

Politicians make me puke.

[Stive Pesley]

Any thoughts on the Labour four point plan and the money to save the industry coming from "People's Quantitive Easing" ?

 

Quote

 

1. Stabilise the industry and protect steelworkers by allowing time for a buyer to be found but being prepared to nationalise plants threatened with closure.

2. Fast-track key investment projects like high-speed rail in the North, and build them with British steel.

3. Create a level playing field. The Tories must stop blocking EU initiatives to protect steel but also look at business rates and energy prices.

4. Restructure the industry so it has a future, in partnership with workers, management and major customers working alongside government.

 

 

[jono]

On 30 March 2016 at 20:05, Ramarena said:

Glad you've sorted out another role. 

The point I would make is that the Port Talbot plant is crucial to U.K infrastructure. I'm not sure where you worked, but I'm guessing it wasn't a strategic industry (correct me if I'm wrong).

I can't think of an leading nations where steel production has ceased, it's integral to so many things we do, nuclear defence/military, power stations, railways, cars, buildings, etc, etc.

Steel production is crucial for any country, sure you can buy it in, as we are increasingly doing, however if there were an increase international tensions, or god forbid a war, any country that could not produce it's own steel would be in serious trouble, or they could easily be held over a barrel.

So that (in my opinion) is why the steel industry is a priority industry, despite not being a fan of bailing companies out. 

As I understand it Port talbot is a strip mill so it's making a product that supplies the light end of industry. White goods, motor car bodies and so forth. From an infrastructure POV the plant probably isn't that important but other mills that make angles, channels, bars and structural steels have also closed or will eventually close. The BIG BIG issue is that when you no longer have these primary raw material suppliers your state investment in a big infrastructure project does not benefit your own economy .. So we spend state money building a mega project .. Let's say Severn Barrage ... 50 years ago this would have meant ... Labour on the job .. Same as now but it would have also meant that forges, foundries, steel mills Turbine makers Generator manufacturers, valve makers etc etc would all have got orders and so benefitted the local economy

Thus "State" expenditure was worthwhile way beyond the fact that we had a new power station. Now even if the turbines are "assembled" in a UK factory all the technology and raw materials come from elsewhere. JCB is a marvellous company and has had to do what it does to survive and prosper but it's a meccano factory most of what makes a JCB is made in India, Korea or anywhere but the UK. It's UK suppliers are more often than not just warehouses. I can't help feeling that this is what will always happen if we want a green economy a decent working environment and civilised labour conditions when other nations don't. ... It isn't a government failing or a union failing or even a factory owner. it's a fact of life. It isn't that we haven't supported old industries it's that other nations haven't regulated them to the same extent that we have. We are right, decent and now going bust because of it. It's Battery eggs vs Organic single farm free range ? ... And your customers are short of the folding stuff. You know what you want to buy but ...

i dislike tariffs and am a free market man but until health safety and environmental laws are reasonably equitable globally then I am begining to think other wise.