RamNut Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 1 hour ago, Mostyn6 said: oh I see. All this coy behaviour was about getting yourself a date. It all makes sense now. Like pulling the pigtails of the girl you fancied when you was a kid. I never fancied girls with pigtails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 14 minutes ago, RamNut said: I'm not a huge fan of making those sort of changes during the season. For that reason i would not have sacked nigel clough after the forest game, nor BD when we did. Changing the manager during the season usually seems to invite turmoil. On the other hand I would have sacked Jewell and Phil Brown because we were already in turmoil. Jewell was all over the place mentally and Phil Brown was totally clueless from day 1. in the case of PC we were not in turmoil. And we gave a public commitment not to sack him this season. He was entitled to expect that we would honour that commitment and that he would get the necessary support. The reasons given for the sacking are either not the real reasons, or are a very poor excuse for a very harsh decision. I agree with i-Ram that once Mel entered the dressing room to carpet Clement in front of the players, that it was the beginning of the end. We know that Mel tried to get schteve to resign before sacking him. I do wonder whether this action was intended to trigger PC into resigning. There doesn't seem to be any other logical explanation. at some point after the end of october's ringing endorsement of PC at the Fans forum, it seems that MM very quickly decided that PC had to go. DW is in a strange position. he is apparently a caretaker until the end of the season. But he's also under consideration for the job, and he's an advisor to Mel on the recruitment. Sort that lot out. As a consequence no-one seems to know what the plan is and where we are going. I think the hope was that performances would improve. The statements about promotion not being a priority were designed to lift the pressure and expectation and give DW an easy route into the job. But the performances have been poor; the results have been average; and DW has heaped pressure on himself by talking nonsense. If we were winning then the nonsense might not matter - but we're not. DW has shot himself in the foot and he has lost credibility as a result. Its not fatal to his chances but he needs to learn the lessons quickly. Forest is the crunch game. Defeat and his chances are getting slimmer. Victory and his chances are improved. Personally I don't think he is just some worthy assistant who happens to be helping out. I think he wanted the job. He seems to have manoeuvred himself into pole position. he must be aware that if this goes pear shaped then going back to the academy under another manager may not be an easy option. At the moment i think he could recover that role and go back to lick his wounds. I can't tell right now whether he still really wants the job. Perhaps he is finding out that its not exactly a bed of roses if things aren't going according to plan. but Its also difficult to go back to a supporting role having had a taste of the top job. Even Terry westley had to finally admit that having had a taste of it, he subsequently wanted the job. the pressure will start to grow for DW to state what his intentions or ambitions are. he can't continue to fly under the radar. results haven't been good enough for Mel to appoint DW straight away, and they haven't been bad enough to call a halt. So we drift towards Forest at home, and crunch time. I'm not against changes mid way through the season to be honest, sometimes it is needed and we'll never know if Clement would have turned it around, so easy to sit here and say he wouldn't have lost to MK Dons, QPR etc. give me this weeks lottery numbers and I'll believe you (not aimed at you personally RamNut). For me tho any manager needs a full season which is why I don't like interim's, so many trigger happy chairman in football now chasing the dream and not realising how important stability is for a club. It was Clement's first real bad patch after the slow start so it seems incredibly harsh. I will argue against myself here and say that my view is from the outside and what we heard that morning, I don't know what the atmosphere was like behind the scenes at the club, were the players not on board with him fully, had he lost the dressing room and was it time to act before the situation became even harder to turn round? I don't know. Maybe it was the right call, some of the things we heard like Clement not watching many Championship games, players being signed off video footage possibly YouTube, players fitness and morale having gym equipment taken away do strengthen the argument to sack when you throw in the performances as the cherry on the cake. I'm not into the conspiracy theories people are throwing around but I won't dismiss there being more to the sacking than is being let on, we have only heard one side of the story which may be the full story and I won't call bulls!t on what Mel has said either, at the moment Mel could say the seats at the iPro are black and some people would argue against it, absolutely convinced everything he says is absolute ******. The Wassall situation is pretty straight forward to me, he's been around the club a long time, Mel clearly values his input, trusts his opinion and believes in him to do the job, so much so that he's willing to give it him permanently if he does a decent job, if anyone can remember us saying one of the greatest fears was staggering over the line, reaching the play offs and going up, how can you not give him the job? Wassall is no different to Clement in terms of managerial experience, yes Clement has been around superstars abroad but he's never been left to make all the decisions, he's never had to be the tough guy and not the players mates so all this lack of experience being thrown at Wassall was no different in the summer but fans love a name tho, remember Mascarell from Real Madrid....ooooh he must be good and that is why Clement's appointment wasn't treated the same when the truth is they are both exactly the same. Rookies, level 1's, noobies. Had Wassall came from being Barca's academy director boxes of tissues would be handed around as we speak. Let's not forget this is Mel's club his money, he stands to lose a lot more than any of us if this all goes horribly wrong, I doubt the decision to appoint him was taken lightly. All this jobs for the boys is rubbish, nobody becomes multi millionaires by fluke, and I find it interesting how some people are happy to leave it all to Rush, Mel is clueless go behind the scenes, we know more than him yet the truth is Mel was watching Derby a long time before most of these fans were even in nappies. Mel is very much a football man as any of us and does deserve a lot more respect than is being given. He will however make mistakes, name me a football owner that hasn't, maybe Wassall is the biggest mistake he's made to date, we'll have to wait and see, the performances on the pitch are not looking great but we have to remember he's only 6 games in. I'm not exactly delighted with the appointment as I don't do interims full stop, you can't appear to be writing off a season and start handing out work experience when promotion is still a realistic target, if Wassall is the man put your balls on the line and give him a year contract at least and let's go from there. Let us fans and players know the direction we're heading in. Call me nuts but I would rather we gave Wassall a full contract from day 1 then interim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclej Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Things started to gone wrong when the Chairman went into the dressing room. It was the same with Clough and Longston. Why can't they keep their noses out! The club is now in utter turmoil. The fans have no confidence in the players. The players have no confidence in the manager. Mel Morris is no longer 'one of our own'; we no longer trust him. After five players have sworn at the crowd, the players have no trust in the fans. Get this fool out and get a manager in who can start to put the club back together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 7 minutes ago, unclej said: The fans have no confidence in the players. The players have no confidence in the manager. Mel Morris is no longer 'one of our own'; we no longer trust him. After five players have sworn at the crowd, the players have no trust in the fans. Get this fool out and get a manager in who can start to put the club back together. Just want to exclude myself as a Derby fan from this, I would be interested to know how many players would be happy for you to speak for them. Not sure why everyone wants to become the fans spokesman, you only have to read this thread to see not everyone will sign off on this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Just now, Daveo said: Just want to exclude myself as a Derby fan from this, I would be interested to know how many players would be happy for you to speak for them. Not sure why everyone wants to become the fans spokesman, you only have to read this thread to see not everyone will sign off on this post. POLL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 1 hour ago, Daveo said: I'm not against changes mid way through the season to be honest, sometimes it is needed and we'll never know if Clement would have turned it around, so easy to sit here and say he wouldn't have lost to MK Dons, QPR etc. give me this weeks lottery numbers and I'll believe you (not aimed at you personally RamNut). For me tho any manager needs a full season which is why I don't like interim's, so many trigger happy chairman in football now chasing the dream and not realising how important stability is for a club. It was Clement's first real bad patch after the slow start so it seems incredibly harsh. I will argue against myself here and say that my view is from the outside and what we heard that morning, I don't know what the atmosphere was like behind the scenes at the club, were the players not on board with him fully, had he lost the dressing room and was it time to act before the situation became even harder to turn round? I don't know. Maybe it was the right call, some of the things we heard like Clement not watching many Championship games, players being signed off video footage possibly YouTube, players fitness and morale having gym equipment taken away do strengthen the argument to sack when you throw in the performances as the cherry on the cake. I'm not into the conspiracy theories people are throwing around but I won't dismiss there being more to the sacking than is being let on, we have only heard one side of the story which may be the full story and I won't call bulls!t on what Mel has said either, at the moment Mel could say the seats at the iPro are black and some people would argue against it, absolutely convinced everything he says is absolute ******. The Wassall situation is pretty straight forward to me, he's been around the club a long time, Mel clearly values his input, trusts his opinion and believes in him to do the job, so much so that he's willing to give it him permanently if he does a decent job, if anyone can remember us saying one of the greatest fears was staggering over the line, reaching the play offs and going up, how can you not give him the job? Wassall is no different to Clement in terms of managerial experience, yes Clement has been around superstars abroad but he's never been left to make all the decisions, he's never had to be the tough guy and not the players mates so all this lack of experience being thrown at Wassall was no different in the summer but fans love a name tho, remember Mascarell from Real Madrid....ooooh he must be good and that is why Clement's appointment wasn't treated the same when the truth is they are both exactly the same. Rookies, level 1's, noobies. Had Wassall came from being Barca's academy director boxes of tissues would be handed around as we speak. Let's not forget this is Mel's club his money, he stands to lose a lot more than any of us if this all goes horribly wrong, I doubt the decision to appoint him was taken lightly. All this jobs for the boys is rubbish, nobody becomes multi millionaires by fluke, and I find it interesting how some people are happy to leave it all to Rush, Mel is clueless go behind the scenes, we know more than him yet the truth is Mel was watching Derby a long time before most of these fans were even in nappies. Mel is very much a football man as any of us and does deserve a lot more respect than is being given. He will however make mistakes, name me a football owner that hasn't, maybe Wassall is the biggest mistake he's made to date, we'll have to wait and see, the performances on the pitch are not looking great but we have to remember he's only 6 games in. I'm not exactly delighted with the appointment as I don't do interims full stop, you can't appear to be writing off a season and start handing out work experience when promotion is still a realistic target, if Wassall is the man put your balls on the line and give him a year contract at least and let's go from there. Let us fans and players know the direction we're heading in. Call me nuts but I would rather we gave Wassall a full contract from day 1 then interim. And by the same token Mel could say the seats at the ipro are pink and some would believe him, convinced that they are right and go off in a tantrum should anyone suggest that what he said at a so called event might not be entirely true. Just because he watches football does not mean he is making the right calls at the club, just as because he made millions does not mean he has the ultimate right to succeed at this venture. I also don't get why the PC comparisons, by sacking him Mel has said he didn't do the job as he wanted to, if the rookie didn't work in the first instance, why repeat that mistake again? I also take note of your comment that this is Mel's club, does he stand to lose more money than all of us? Some fans spend the majority of their wages travelling up and down the country, they don't moan that they had to get out of bed early to do this, they don't moan because they or their other half might miss Saturday night takeaway, it's a way of life for them, and they won't get that back. MM has invested in this club and has stated he does not intend to lose his money, he is taking a gamble yes, he may also be a Derby fan, but he made a mistake for me in hiring and firing PC, and more importantly putting someone in charge of the club who for a lot of people has taken the club backwards during the 6 games he has been in charge. im not saying you have been brain washed, have had any influence over what Mel is now spending, or any of the other crap that has been thrown your way however at the end of the day just because he is the owner of the club, doesn't mean that everything he tells you is true, as by the same token does it not mean it isn't, and that the way he is running the club at the moment is the right way. The shame of this whole situation is that for the past 3 months, since he entered the changing room, he has been the focus of attention, something that a lot of chairman who have done similar things at other clubs are not, and are probably better run as the result of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 3 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said: And by the same token Mel could say the seats at the ipro are pink and some would believe him, convinced that they are right and go off in a tantrum should anyone suggest that what he said at a so called event might not be entirely true. I'll reply to this at the end.... 3 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said: Just because he watches football does not mean he is making the right calls at the club Very true, he will make some real cock ups whilst he owns this club as I have said earlier Mel has made mistakes already, most of which which will be down to personal opinion, I believe given what I have heard sacking Clement was a mistake. I also believe appointing Wassall as interim is also a mistake. That is my opinion, you may have your own as will everyone that reads this, that's football. My point of Mel being a football man and a Derby fan is that whilst we are all sat here posting how the club should be ran, we are all just fans, Mel is no different. I struggle to understand how anyone can sit here calling him clueless especially when some of the more vocal younger fans including myself have watched far less football, sit down and listen to him talk about the way he wants to see us play and clueless is not the word I would describe him. It feels good that we do have a real football fan at the head of the table, I would take that over some crazy businessman from wherever that has no understanding of English football changing the colour of our strip, wanting to change our name or a nutter that won't sign players over their birthdates. The obvious risk is that being a Derby fan sometimes emotions may get the better of him like entering the dressing room, I can guarantee that if all the regular members on this forum were in the same position as Mel, saw some of the performances, they would too enter the dressing room. Wrong thing to do absolutely but us football fans are emotional creatures and sometimes we do and say things then think later. 3 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said: just as because he made millions does not mean he has the ultimate right to succeed at this venture. Never said he did? 3 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said: I also don't get why the PC comparisons, by sacking him Mel has said he didn't do the job as he wanted to, if the rookie didn't work in the first instance, why repeat that mistake again? As I said he wouldn't have been my choice when promotion is a real target, not that an experienced man would guarantee anything I do think someone that has been around the block, been in difficult situations and been able to handle some of the bigger ego's in the dressing room is needed. Not only that but it will have given us the fans a real lift. Why Wassall? you would have to guess that Mel believes in him and feels he is the right man to carry this Derby way torch. I know people will throw the mate thing out there and it's a way for Mel to meddle but I don't buy it, why not appoint him in the summer if that was the case? already at the club, doubt it would have cost us as much as Clement. Also the first time I saw it mentioned that Wassall was in Mel's ear during games was from RamNut, I doubt he was whispering sack Clement but maybe saying the right things regarding what changes he would make to go more attacking were hitting the right notes in Mel's head, this probably made it an easier decision to get rid of Clement knowing you have a bloke at the club that wants the same as you? 3 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said: I also take note of your comment that this is Mel's club, does he stand to lose more money than all of us? Some fans spend the majority of their wages travelling up and down the country, they don't moan that they had to get out of bed early to do this, they don't moan because they or their other half might miss Saturday night takeaway, it's a way of life for them, and they won't get that back. MM has invested in this club and has stated he does not intend to lose his money, he is taking a gamble yes, he may also be a Derby fan, but he made a mistake for me in hiring and firing PC, and more importantly putting someone in charge of the club who for a lot of people has taken the club backwards during the 6 games he has been in charge. Appoint the wrong managers, sees the club drop down the table, attendances fall, over paying on poor signings I'd say yeah he has a lot to lose and with the Clement appointment I would imagine he's a few grand out of pocket from that. 3 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said: im not saying you have been brain washed, have had any influence over what Mel is now spending, or any of the other crap that has been thrown your way however at the end of the day just because he is the owner of the club, doesn't mean that everything he tells you is true, as by the same token does it not mean it isn't, and that the way he is running the club at the moment is the right way. The shame of this whole situation is that for the past 3 months, since he entered the changing room, he has been the focus of attention, something that a lot of chairman who have done similar things at other clubs are not, and are probably better run as the result of this. Maybe not me personally unless I've missed it but I have seen a few posts I do think it's insulting to those members that went, some may have come back more enthusiastic, positive and vocal than others which has created all this but it's frustrating to see and to be honest I'm bored to tears of reading the same things over again. I like to come back from these things, let it sink in, watch and wait before really talking about it, I go into these meetings with an open mind. Said it several times now we have only heard one side and whilst some of it still doesn't make sense I'm not going to shouting bulls!t to everything like others. I don't think we have been told any lies as such, I really don't but that doesn't mean I agree with every call as I've said earlier. Maybe there is a few added reasons beyond the performances, personality clash maybe, I'm sure anyone here that has had to interview for staff, appointed them and turned out to be complete knobs, still trying to get rid of a couple of mods myself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Jesus @Daveo - To quote Saitama, 20 words or less! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovis aries Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 5 hours ago, Mostyn6 said: so he bought a club that finished 8th, we are now 5th.... Hmmmm Let's see where we finish in May Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 7 minutes ago, Ovis aries said: Let's see where we finish in May take your own advice pal, I'm not the one pre-judging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclej Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 2 hours ago, Daveo said: Just want to exclude myself as a Derby fan from this, I would be interested to know how many players would be happy for you to speak for them. Not sure why everyone wants to become the fans spokesman, you only have to read this thread to see not everyone will sign off on this post. Home and away, its just what I see and hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top 6 finish Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Bloody hell Daveo,I'm almost tempted to say welcome to the dark side.Not quite,though,I've been saying,albeit a bit briefer, a lot of that since PC's demise,and the rise of DW. I made the point if DW was the right man now then why not in the summer,a few days after.Clement should have been given until the end of the season,and then review.As for "breakfast at Tiffanys",I started to read it and gave up after about 5 or 6 pages,mainly because of boredom but simply because it was clear where we were heading.MM getting his retaliation in first. Finally,(for now),the reason PC was sacked,putting it simply all the clubs in the top 8 have had similar bad patches as us,but they stuck with their managers.One blinked first and then panicked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 4 minutes ago, top 6 finish said: Bloody hell Daveo,I'm almost tempted to say welcome to the dark side.Not quite,though,I've been saying,albeit a bit briefer, a lot of that since PC's demise,and the rise of DW. I made the point if DW was the right man now then why not in the summer,a few days after.Clement should have been given until the end of the season,and then review.As for "breakfast at Tiffanys",I started to read it and gave up after about 5 or 6 pages,mainly because of boredom but simply because it was clear where we were heading.MM getting his retaliation in first. Finally,(for now),the reason PC was sacked,putting it simply all the clubs in the top 8 have had similar bad patches as us,but they stuck with their managers.One blinked first and then panicked. Theres only one side, just 30,000+ opinions within it, no rights, no wrongs, sooner people realise that the better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gypsy Ram Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 29 pages later.. Is he out yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovis aries Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 1 hour ago, Mostyn6 said: take your own advice pal, I'm not the one pre-judging. OK pal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovis aries Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 1 minute ago, Ovis aries said: Not had much to say about anything for the last couple of months, I have been otherwise engaged . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRamFan Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 4 hours ago, unclej said: Things started to gone wrong when the Chairman went into the dressing room. It was the same with Clough and Longston. Why can't they keep their noses out! The club is now in utter turmoil. The fans have no confidence in the players. The players have no confidence in the manager. Mel Morris is no longer 'one of our own'; we no longer trust him. After five players have sworn at the crowd, the players have no trust in the fans. Get this fool out and get a manager in who can start to put the club back together. forest fan, must be, only a gump would make whole sale generalisations. We are not in turmoil imho. I have confidence in the majority of the players. If you think MM is a fool, I assume you are on the Bill Gates level of wealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRamFan Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 48 minutes ago, Gypsy Ram said: 29 pages later.. Is he out yet? yeap he is, spotted him at Morrisons, buying soup. Reckon he'll be back home soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top 6 finish Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 19 minutes ago, McRamFan said: forest fan, must be, only a gump would make whole sale generalisations. We are not in turmoil imho. I have confidence in the majority of the players. If you think MM is a fool, I assume you are on the Bill Gates level of wealth. If you have money you must always be right,and the more money you have the cleverer you must be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 2 minutes ago, top 6 finish said: If you have money you must always be right,and the more money you have the cleverer you must be. Can't be right.....I'm skint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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