The diamond

[Ram a lamb a ding dong]

Saying that there is too much congestion in the middle and no width out wide

[Gary Teale]

There wasn't much wrong with the 433 that we had played pretty well for 18 months turning us from a mid table team to one that was always near the top, the last 10 games we all know what went wrong but we were still scoring lots of goals but  just started making silly individual errors at the back.  

[Alph]

And we didn't have a DM like Thorne. He's an imposing figure in that role. 

I don't know why we need a diamond? What for? I thought it was part of the plan to get Bent in the team or Weimann up front.

The team that started yesterday fits 433 better than the diamond. Warnock and Baird didn't give us forward width. Ince and Russell could have.

The passing was as slow as McClaren's slowest passing

[Ilsonram12]

Got to give the players time to adjust and get up to speed, Martin hasn't played much since March, George we all know about, Warnock in and out the team, Baird had an indifferent season last, Bryson same as plus being injured in pre-season, there's 5 out the 11 

long way to go and if the Hughes injury is bad then we may see a change all round sooner rather than later

[Ramchope]

I hate the diamond.

[Shuff264]

I like the diamond and think it can definitely work, needs pacey full backs with alot of energy though - not Baird and Warnock.

I dont think its really the formation he wanted to play away? Clearly 4-2-3-1 is perfect for away from home and I'd say were pretty likely to see it against Porstmouth in the week, has the extra advantage of not really requiring any CM.

The Diamond can work for us, it will just take a bit of time to adapt. Whats important is that we can play in a few different ways. I was a little disappointed that yesterday after losing two CMs we didnt change formation to a 4-2-3-1 and instead tried to put square pegs in round holes to see the match out.

We'll probably see the best of the diamond in home games, where we can properly attack teams.

[Anon]

I'm prepared to give it time, but my gut instinct suggests that the diamond is over-engineered continental ********. I will be happy to be proved wrong.

[Ramchop]

I hate the diamond. I think we should play the 433 with a central striker dropping deep to collect the ball and thorne deep to protect the defence. I think the 2 yards of difference in the 2 formations will make all the difference....

[Old Spalding Ram]

Interesting one this.

 

On the "Your starting XI v Bolton " thread, 4-3-3, 4-2-3-2, 4-1-2-1-2, numerous systems, and some that never even added up to eleven!  15 pages long, over 130 team permutations and tweaks, and no one, yep no one, chose the same starting XI as Clement!

Clement likes the "diamond", went for experience at Bolton with the full backs, injuries scuppered the plan, the substitutions made sense to me, systems will change, this is about winning a league that is a lot stronger than some on here realise, the diamond ain't going away.............................get used to it!

 

[Alph]

We barely got the ball in their half before the injuries.

I don't know if the diamond will work or not

It's hard to tell whether we moved the ball so slow because of the diamond or the diamond looked so poor because we moved the ball so slow. 

The ball would go 

Keogh - Shackell - Warnock - dead end - Shackell - Keogh - Baird down the line for Russell to chase

or

Shackell - Thorne - Baird - Keogh - Shackell - Thorne - Warnock - Carson long ball to Martin.

Thorne would look sharp. He'd try and spread play and do things quickly. Everything else was slow and with limited options. Formation or players or both?

 

[Cam the Ram]

I like having different options but the diamond seems to restrict so many of our players:

Full back - Have to be a lot more cautious about going forward so we lack width

Hughes/Hendrick/Bryson - Have to concentrate a lot more on helping the full backs defend

Ince - Hopefully Clement gets him back playing on the right wing because he just doesn't have the same influence when playing centrally 

Martin - Don't know if it's his role in the diamond or the fact he's not a lone striker but he's been poor during pre season and against Bolton

 

But then it probably does suit players like Russell, Weimann and Bent

[cloughandtaylor]

Formations eh!

So PC likes the diamond, probably got lots of experience using it in the past, unfortunately we don't have the same players as PSG or RM. It certainly was not working yesterday, so maybe an alternative set up should have been used in the 2nd half?

It did look like he went to Bolton not to lose, being his first proper game in charge........per season friendlies count for nothing, player wise or coach wise!

The alarming thing with yesterday's game was the lack of chances we had, yes I know it was the first game of the season and away, but it was Bolton, not Boro, QPR, Wolves or other far better sides.

I know some have said, its OK we got a clean sheet and point away from home, but to be realistically the point only came because Bolton only hit the bar 3 times! Yes we were so narrow in the diamond system we never actually looked as thou we could win the game, we didn't create enough simply as.

Let's hope PC gets it right next time, there is certainly lots of areas of improvement, its still only the first game, have we improved since last season? Yes, because we didn't let 2 or 3 yesterday!

Thinks can only get better!

[IlsonDerby]

We slated Clough for shoe horning players into a 442 and thats what the diamond forces us to do. Ince is a wide forward not a number 10, Hughes/Hendrick/Bryson are not Right or Left midfielders, they're centre midfielders. I think people are getting carried away with the Villareal game. The system didn't do anything to inspire me against them, the players just played well.  

Obviously I will give it time so the players can become comfortable with it but I was hoping Clement would come with a 4231 formation in order to keep the attacking prowess whilst creating more stability defensively. I guess hes the one being paid the £ to get this right, not me. So I'll leave it in his hands. 

[Pearl Ram]

 

[RamNut]

 

[RamNut]

Its been interesting to read how Carlo Ancelotti is closely associated with the development and deployment of the diamond formation, especially at Milan, but also at times at Chelsea and Real Madrid. 

This leads me to think that it isn't going to go away.

 

[Duracell]

West Ham didn't look too shabby with a diamond today.

[Alph]

West Ham didn't look too shabby with a diamond today.

Not sure what that proves tbh mate? 

[Wsm-ram]

Not sure what that proves tbh mate? 

maybe it proves that they have a squad and team more suited to it than us right now ?.

I do feel width is key though to creating more opportunities with the players we have etc.

[Duracell]

Not sure what that proves tbh mate? 

It's been said that the diamond doesn't work because there's not enough width. Well West Ham played a team that loves to play with width today and came out on top, and I think it says when the system works well, it can work very well.

I don't buy it that the diamond is rubbish full stop. I'm unconvinced it's much use to us but I'm a long way off writing it off, unlike a number of people in this thread.

Think my main point is that it's not just the world's best teams that can make a diamond work.