Clement - does he know what he is talking about

[davenportram]

Just read Clements post match interview on the official site . It made me think back to a few threads last season bemoaning lack of plans B and even C, and how some posters who know everything about football said plan Bs don't exist or aren't needed. It appears Clement disagrees with them, so have we got the right man.

 

All the players have fitted really well into that system,” he said.

 

“The 4-3-3 formation is another option and the idea now is to try one other shape on Saturday against Burton Albion.

 

“These are options that we have, and can utilise, depending on who is playing well, who’s fit and what opposition we are coming up against.

 

 

“It gives us the opportunity change things during games to either be more offensive or more defensive.

 

 

“It’s great to have that adaptability and those different options – not only for me, but the players as well.”

[Duracell]

Could it be possible that both are true?

Some successful teams have a really good system and lots of players to fill each position, and very few injury prone players in key positions, and finding Plans B and C isn't as important.

Other successful teams have enough versatile and tactically aware players to use more than one system, and adapt to their opposition.

Fans like to go on about "the right way to play football", but that means something different to everyone. The only thing we all agree on is that winning is the best outcome, and there are a thousand and one ways of achieving that.

[RLACML]

Is this an attempt at a 'I told you so' thread?

Duracell has it spot on.

[KBB]

Teams change systems all the time during games to expose opposition weaknesses.

Their left back having a stinker? Change to 4-3-3 overload to the left wing and then quickly switch it to our right winger 1v1 against their left back so he can have him on toast. Fergie was the king of this and used Ronaldo to great effect using this method at united.

the art form is to make a change sutble so by the time the opposition manager notices you either have scored or have them running all over the place to counter act you.

managers will have all sorts of systems they use during games. Mick McCarthy like to put the tallest player against the smallest fullback and smash it on the diagonal at him and pick up scraps in the box. Pulis plays wides strikers and gets the fullbacks to play the ball down the line so their player is forced to put the ball out in the final third.

we don't need clement to get an announcement over the tannoy to tell the crowd when we have changed system.

[Old Spalding Ram]

I'm warming to Mr Clement..........................spot on !

[Bris Vegas]

Teams change systems all the time during games to expose opposition weaknesses.

Their left back having a stinker? Change to 4-3-3 overload to the left wing and then quickly switch it to our right winger 1v1 against their left back so he can have him on toast. Fergie was the king of this and used Ronaldo to great effect using this method at united.

the art form is to make a change sutble so by the time the opposition manager notices you either have scored or have them running all over the place to counter act you.

managers will have all sorts of systems they use during games. Mick McCarthy like to put the tallest player against the smallest fullback and smash it on the diagonal at him and pick up scraps in the box. Pulis plays wides strikers and gets the fullbacks to play the ball down the line so their player is forced to put the ball out in the final third.

we don't need clement to get an announcement over the tannoy to tell the crowd when we have changed system.

I don't think this classifies as a system change, more just exploiting the opposition's weakness. Movement is natural in football matches, so it's not like thorougout the 90 mins you can visibly see the team shape in both defence and attack.

A system is a shape, players who spend the majority of the matches in specific zones with specific roles.

Pushing players further up, wider or more narrow etc. I don't think is a system change.

I honestly don't think it's wise to swap systems during matches. I mean, changing from a 4-3-3 after 20 mins to 4-4-2, and then to a 4-1-2-3 or whatever. Players have different roles, different duties in each system.

I can't think of any succesful team which changes such systems throughout matches. Manchester City are pretty adaptable, but then again they can be because they've adopted a scattergun approach to signings and have about 30 'top quality' players in their squad.

[Rampage]

Clement does not have any egg on his tie so far as his career is concerned. I am assuming that this will continue as it appears that he has been given everything that he could realistically expect to receive. Everyone must think that realistically, it will take time to get the team playing to the level that he wants them to do. there must always remain the possibility that he will expect more from his players than what they are capable of achieving. The saving grace is that we are playing against teams with similar ability ranges to ourselves. We appear to have more strength in depth than last year but the left back spot is no stronger as we still have Forsyth and Warnock who played last year..I am sure that Forsyth and Christie would rather have played against Villareal than against Burton Albion. Comparing performances of different players against Villareal or Burton is not easy, but giving the ball away and being out of position are glaring faults. For me, the following positions are still up for grabs to some degree:- Goalkeeper (Grant or Carson), left back (Warnock or Forsyth) one midfield place (Hendrick or Bryson)..

[davenportram]

Could it be possible that both are true?

Some successful teams have a really good system and lots of players to fill each position, and very few injury prone players in key positions, and finding Plans B and C isn't as important.

Other successful teams have enough versatile and tactically aware players to use more than one system, and adapt to their opposition.

Fans like to go on about "the right way to play football", but that means something different to everyone. The only thing we all agree on is that winning is the best outcome, and there are a thousand and one ways of achieving that.

last season we didn't have the players in depth, nor did we have or find a way of playing when injuries hit.

[StringerBell]

I don't think this classifies as a system change, more just exploiting the opposition's weakness. Movement is natural in football matches, so it's not like thorougout the 90 mins you can visibly see the team shape in both defence and attack.

A system is a shape, players who spend the majority of the matches in specific zones with specific roles.

Pushing players further up, wider or more narrow etc. I don't think is a system change.

I honestly don't think it's wise to swap systems during matches. I mean, changing from a 4-3-3 after 20 mins to 4-4-2, and then to a 4-1-2-3 or whatever. Players have different roles, different duties in each system.

I can't think of any succesful team which changes such systems throughout matches. Manchester City are pretty adaptable, but then again they can be because they've adopted a scattergun approach to signings and have about 30 'top quality' players in their squad.

I share your concerns, it must be a lot for the players to take on board otherwise more teams would do it.

I'm hoping we've perfected the 4-3-3 over the last 2 seasons though and have kept hold of most of our players so a quick change to another formation or reverting to 4-3-3 might be doable for us.

[davenportram]

Is this an attempt at a 'I told you so' thread?

Duracell has it spot on.

I'm not that subtle. Id have just "told you so, the manager agrees with me".

[Duracell]

last season we didn't have the players in depth, nor did we have or find a way of playing when injuries hit.

Agreed. Think we had enough CDMs though - 3 really should have been enough and I guess you could argue that it was unlucky. But we had absolutely no replacement or cover for Martin, and that combined with a lack of CDM was our downfall. Any formation we made with the players left involved putting square pegs in round holes.

I still think 4-3-3 is our best formation a fully fit side. If we had Premier League funds I'd just spend the money on another Thorne and another Martin so we could play that as often as possible. But we don't, so playing 4-1-3-2 and reducing our reliance on them both sounds sensible to me.

Worth nothing that Bournemouth got promoted almost entirely on Plan A, though. There is no official right or wrong way to approach it, there is only a right or wrong way for a specific group of players.

[mwram1973]

Agreed. Think we had enough CDMs though - 3 really should have been enough and I guess you could argue that it was unlucky. But we had absolutely no replacement or cover for Martin, and that combined with a lack of CDM was our downfall. Any formation we made with the players left involved putting square pegs in round holes.

I still think 4-3-3 is our best formation a fully fit side. If we had Premier League funds I'd just spend the money on another Thorne and another Martin so we could play that as often as possible. But we don't, so playing 4-1-3-2 and reducing our reliance on them both sounds sensible to me.

Worth nothing that Bournemouth got promoted almost entirely on Plan A, though. There is no official right or wrong way to approach it, there is only a right or wrong way for a specific group of players.

They went through the season with near on no injuries to their key players though. I agree that if we can keep a fully fit side plan A is all that is needed. Trouble will arise as we saw last season when key players are out and we still play the same system with players that are obviously not adapted to that position.

[Day]

I'm not that subtle. Id have just "told you so, the manager agrees with me".

You're not subtle at all as I knew who you was talking about within 5 seconds, wum!

[Bris Vegas]

They went through the season with near on no injuries to their key players though. I agree that if we can keep a fully fit side plan A is all that is needed. Trouble will arise as we saw last season when key players are out and we still play the same system with players that are obviously not adapted to that position.

Not entirely true. 18 Bournemouth sqaud players made over 15 appearances last season, 20 over ten appearances.

They made 10 changes in a League Cup clash with WBA, and still won 1-0, and eight changes for the FA Cup third round trip to Rotherham which they won 5-1.

It didn't matter who they played, the plyers all knew their jobs and they had great depth in key positions. 

They had Yann Kermorgant, Brett Pittman and later Kenweyne Jones to fight for that key centre-forward role, with Callum Wilson playing off him with Tokelo Rantie and even Matt Ritchie capable of playing the same role in reserve.

 They played one way throughout the entire season, used a core squad of 18 and still won when making radical changes in personnel because the players knew their roles down to a tee.

 

[ramit]

I'm not that subtle. Id have just "told you so, the manager agrees with me".

Only the true Messiah denies his divinity

[eddie]

Only the true Messiah denies his divinity

And very naughty boys maintain that they are gourd good.

Same thing really.

[I Am Sheep]

I think the problem with Mac is that he was so ingrained into his 433 philosophy, the players just didn't know what to do when he wanted to change the formation because it wasn't something they'd really practised. It seemed like when "plan B" was needed, Mac moved things around but the players didn't even know what he was wanting them to do.

This time around it seems like Clement has pushed the adaptability agenda from the outset. He's been getting the players used to different formations and roles and what he expects them to do in these situations. Even when players aren't in their best positions they can still do the job required.

[MuespachRam]

I think everyone would agree that our last successful promotion team none of those players would get in our starting 11 now......but, what Mr Davies did with them was make sure that every single one of them knew exactly what their job was and did just that. 

Systems don't win games-players do... Get them to buy into whatever system you like and it will be successful. 

[StockholmRam]

What system did Brazil 1970 and 82 play...

[Milbs]

Happy that Clement has already realised that we should have more ways of playing than just Martin 4-3-3, not all his eggs in one basket. Will be interesting what set up he goes with at Bolton.