Ambitious Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 If Shackell signs tonight, then I would have these in at - Carson Baird Pearce Shackell FozzyUse Bucko and Albentosa as res / incase of injuryThe only problem I have with that is how slow that backline is. Pearce and Shackell would be a very aerial dominant duo but neither are known for their ability to pass beyond your average CB Championship defender. Nevertheless, there aren't many fast defenders at this level. Wednesday built a half-decent defence around two statues in Lees and Loovens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloughandtaylor Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 You let them go inside if that's their weaker foot and you have more bodies in there to make the tackle. I've never once said that we don't need to improve the defenders. I'm just not having it that defenders defend and attackers attack and that's it. That's what Super Rams suggests. He talks about Grimsby but doesn't acknowledge that the first goal there's a perfect 4 midfield line and yet none of them have picked up the runners. Hence Keogh has 2 men. But he blames Keogh for that because he's supposed to organise. I'm sorry but if defensive midfielders are letting attacking midfielders run into the box unmarked then it's their fault. It's not just up to a captain to speak. The armband means bugger all. Everyone should communicate.The whole idea that you don't defend from the front and attack from the back completely baffles me. No team in the world, pub league or Champions League trust 4 or 5 players to defend. The captain IE Keogh should always be watching the game, its almost second guessing what going to happen next, it a gift of reading the game its what all decent defenders can do /should do. If a defender goes wondering without the ball and leave a gap , then its up to Keogh to either call another player over to fill in that position or fill it himself if he is free [ they should never be outnumbered].Its also knowing when to back off an attacker who's running at you with the ball and when to make that challage, Ideally you want to keep the forward on your stronger side and let him turn you on to what you think is your weaker side - its reading the game its what all decent defenders should be doing.At set pieces, its organising your defenders on who's marking who, its making the decisions on who goes on the post at corners, its really playing the game with eyes in the back of your head!As captain you rule that box, you make the call, you tell the rest of the team who's doing what in that box when defending cornesr as most attackers do not defend very well.........Most of it is instinctive, its what makes captains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloughandtaylor Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 The only problem I have with that is how slow that backline is. Pearce and Shackell would be a very aerial dominant duo but neither are known for their ability to pass beyond your average CB Championship defender. Nevertheless, there aren't many fast defenders at this level. Wednesday built a half-decent defence around two statues in Lees and Loovens.Yes, but they would be solid at the back.I always hope for another Stimac /Wright/Todd but that's not what we have to play with.Cloughie used to say get the spine of the team right and we build around it, using this -the only position we need to sort out is the CB.We need a solid back four, get that right and with the midfield and attacking force we have the team has goals written all over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Yes, but they would be solid at the back.I always hope for another Stimac /Wright/Todd but that's not what we have to play with.Cloughie used to say get the spine of the team right and we build around it, using this -the only position we need to sort out is the CB.We need a solid back four, get that right and with the midfield and attacking force we have the team has goals written all over it.I don't doubt, but there's a lot more to it than defenders defending and attackers attacking. The distribution has to be right in the first place, Shackell and Pearce may win everything in the air but if they struggle to find a white shirt then they're going to be tested a lot more than they should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 goalkeepers never catch anything these days.they parry and punch and aren't a patch on keepers like pat jennings, peter shilton etcMuch easier to predict the flight path of a glorified pig's bladder though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloughandtaylor Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I don't doubt, but there's a lot more to it than defenders defending and attackers attacking. The distribution has to be right in the first place, Shackell and Pearce may win everything in the air but if they struggle to find a white shirt then they're going to be tested a lot more than they should. The holding midfielder [Thorne ] should be there or there abouts - no long balls needed, keep the passing short and quick that all is needed. We need the midfielders -Thorne and Bryson to do their stuff they can both pass a bit you know. With Russell and Ince on either wing [both need to track back top Thorne and Bryson to help out when under the cosh and with Bent and either Martin or Weiman up front making diagonal runs [always very difficult for the defenders this pick up] -this 11 has got goals written all over it.But we need a solid back 4 first. Carson Baird Pearce Shackell Fozzy Thorne Bryson Ince Russell Weiman/Martin Bent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malagaram Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 How many RamsFans believe we might see Carlo Ancellotti at the Ipro one day soon,supporting,advising P C,would he be down on the touchline,is that allowed,or in the Directors box,would love to see him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmic Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 How many RamsFans believe we might see Carlo Ancellotti at the Ipro one day soon,supporting,advising P C,would he be down on the touchline,is that allowed,or in the Directors box,would love to see himNo way will this ever happen. Why would anyone in any profession look to his old boss for advise after finally getting that promotion and reaching the same level? Just belittles the whole step up from assistant to manager. PC is his own man, I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kernow Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 People want to see 4 of the back 5 different to last year? That's ridiculous. It's unbelievable how bad our defence is made out to be after some of the **** we've had to watch over the years. Yes some of the mistakes were calamitous but does it really call for a virtually brand new back-line? Our defence has primarily seen us within a point of two play-off campaigns in two years, it's not a relegation fighting defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloughandtaylor Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 If Shackell comes here and we have - Shackell /Baird /Pearce/Albentosa /Keogh /bucko /Shotton Fozzy - and we don't sell any. Then we have to play the best back 4 possible, this based on experience, and class of player.We can only pick 4?PC has said he's watched the videos of last season, he also tried two defence line ups at Grimsby, I don't think we will a rerun of the 1st half calamity now PC and seen it with his own eyes.Remember the defence cock ups must have come to light earlier as well, otherwise we wouldn't have needed to bring in Pearce, Baird straight away......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I don't think we will a rerun of the 1st half calamity now PC and seen it with his own eyes.If he's going to judge anyone on 45 minutes of football in the first pre-season game, he's not fit to manage a football team at any level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Nor would he be if he totally dismissed it, as some are wont to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Nor would he be if he totally dismissed it, as some are wont to do.Of course. But I think if Keogh is on his way out (which he could be, I have absolutely no idea), Clement would have that in the back of his mind and planned out already. The 45 minutes on Saturday aren't irrelevant, but they're a million miles off the first 45 minutes we'll get at Bolton, for very obvious reasons.P.S. Shotton is rubbish to be fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I just wanted to use the word wont, to be honest. Although in defence of Shotton for the second goal, there have been plenty of times where Keogh has been left in the same position as Shotton was, and dealt (read: not dealt) with the situation in much the same manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam_DCFC_1994 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 For me, come the first game of the season, i would like to See either Albentosa or Shackell if signed starting alongside Keogh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 People want to see 4 of the back 5 different to last year? That's ridiculous. It's unbelievable how bad our defence is made out to be after some of the **** we've had to watch over the years. Yes some of the mistakes were calamitous but does it really call for a virtually brand new back-line? Our defence has primarily seen us within a point of two play-off campaigns in two years, it's not a relegation fighting defence.Quite right. It's a relatively high risk footballing defence. Another poster analysed it spot on - our system pushes 2 centre backs relatively wide and so we need the CDM to drop to make a 3. Thorne was the master of this at the back end of the 2013-2014 season. When that doesn't happen the gaps are too great and everyone is playing scurry and catch-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloughandtaylor Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 If he's going to judge anyone on 45 minutes of football in the first pre-season game, he's not fit to manage a football team at any level.No, PC he had already said he had seen videos of last season games, I would have thought he would have wanted to know how we blow it in the last 10 games..... he would have been well aware of certain problems before Grimsby, but as a coach you have to see it for yourself. It does look like we arte trying to bring Shackell in, I would have thought PC wouldn't want 6 CB as well as Baird and Fozzy as RB and LB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Excellent balanced article in the Derby Telegraph about the Centre Back situation. The voice of reason.http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/Derby-County-Strong-partnership-needed-ensure/story-26901223-detail/story.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmericanRam Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Excellent balanced article in the Derby Telegraph about the Centre Back situation. The voice of reason.http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/Derby-County-Strong-partnership-needed-ensure/story-26901223-detail/story.html Thanks for linking; good read this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 You're back AR. Where you been? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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