Are we reliant on Chrissy Martin?

[robglosta]

As so much of our play goes through him, he is clearly a crucial part of the team and arguably the first name on the team sheet when fit. If we lost him for a period of time (*touches wood*) do you think we would drop off the pace, or could Benty come into the team and do the job? Would we need to find a replacement in the loan market? Or would we even look to change our shape, possibly playing JR alongside Bent?

[Shuff264]

Goals wise Chrissy has scored 32% of our league goals, compare that to the other top scorers; Murphy - 41%, Assombawongapaydayloans - 39%.

 

We wouldnt be as sunk without his goals as other teams, without his all round play and ability to hold up the ball and facilitate our forward runners, we would have some serious problems and would have to adapt our play.

[Mostyn6]

I personally think we have enough players capable of scoring, and enough players who can play as a central striker.

 

I think fans buy into this myth that Martin in the side equals us playing some sort of aerial game where his jumping/height and physical strength are vital. The truth is that whilst they help, Martin's key contributions are always technical. His close control, from waist down, is very good, as is his awareness with his back to goal. He contributes with his feet simply. I think that it wouldn't change our tactics too much if Martin was replaced by Ward, Bent, Dawkins, Ibe or Russell. They'd all add something Martin hasn't got, but similarly we'd lose something that Martin has got.

 

In short, yes we rely on him, but I also think we'd cope without him.

[Ramarena]

I personally think we have enough players capable of scoring, and enough players who can play as a central striker.

 

I think fans buy into this myth that Martin in the side equals us playing some sort of aerial game where his jumping/height and physical strength are vital. The truth is that whilst they help, Martin's key contributions are always technical. His close control, from waist down, is very good, as is his awareness with his back to goal. He contributes with his feet simply. I think that it wouldn't change our tactics too much if Martin was replaced by Ward, Bent, Dawkins, Ibe or Russell. They'd all add something Martin hasn't got, but similarly we'd lose something that Martin has got.

 

In short, yes we rely on him, but I also think we'd cope without him.

 

We have the options but it would depend on how we adapted to a different style. We would have to change style and formation if we lost Martin. 

[sage]

I personally think we have enough players capable of scoring, and enough players who can play as a central striker.

 

I think fans buy into this myth that Martin in the side equals us playing some sort of aerial game where his jumping/height and physical strength are vital. The truth is that whilst they help, Martin's key contributions are always technical. His close control, from waist down, is very good, as is his awareness with his back to goal. He contributes with his feet simply. I think that it wouldn't change our tactics too much if Martin was replaced by Ward, Bent, Dawkins, Ibe or Russell. They'd all add something Martin hasn't got, but similarly we'd lose something that Martin has got.

 

In short, yes we rely on him, but I also think we'd cope without him.

Do you really think Ward could play the target man/pivot remotely as well as Martin?

[Rev]

It would depend on how the rest of the team adapted to his absence too. Last season when he was banned, we tried to play the same way with Sammon, which didn't work at all. If we need to replace Martin for whatever reason, the rest of the team need to adjust their play accordingly.

[Mostyn6]

Do you really think Ward could play the target man/pivot remotely as well as Martin?

 

You missed my point. Martin does NOT play as a target man. Andy Carroll, Peter Crouch or Drogba play as target men. Chris Martin plays as a lone striker, more like a Giroud or Costa. His feet are more important than his physical stature or aerial ability.

[RamNut]

I personally think we have enough players capable of scoring, and enough players who can play as a central striker.

 

I think fans buy into this myth that Martin in the side equals us playing some sort of aerial game where his jumping/height and physical strength are vital. The truth is that whilst they help, Martin's key contributions are always technical. His close control, from waist down, is very good, as is his awareness with his back to goal. He contributes with his feet simply. I think that it wouldn't change our tactics too much if Martin was replaced by Ward, Bent, Dawkins, Ibe or Russell. They'd all add something Martin hasn't got, but similarly we'd lose something that Martin has got.

 

In short, yes we rely on him, but I also think we'd cope without him.

Its not just about playing with your back to goal.

Its about smashing a few goals with a 6'5 centre half trying to haul you back.

Some of those lightweights couldn't do it.

[Mostyn6]

Its not just about playing with your back to goal.

Its about smashing a few goals with a 6'5 centre half trying to haul you back.

Some of those lightweights couldn't do it.

 

rubbish mate. How does Sergio Aguero manage? How did Malcolm Christie manage? How did Michael Owen manage? How does Lionel Messi manage? Even at this level, how does someone like Ross McCormack (last season) manage?

[Ram8]

I'm new on here , and this is my first post .. I think that this present Derby team has many 'key' players , and talented individuals , and that McLaren has done an excellent tactical job with the 'components' at his disposal .. however , if there is one player who , were he to be injured , would prove to be the most difficult to replace within McLaren's system , then that player is Chris Martin ..

He has matured into a superb centre forward , able to hold the ball under pressure and bring our midfielders into play with his instinctive flick-ons and lay-backs , and to spread the ball out to the wings with pinpoint accuracy .. his strength ( for which he needs some modicum of weight on his frame ) allows him to be able to do this ( Steve Howard for instance had the strength and the courage , but was never going to be this creative and skilful ) .. and he is very 'savvy' with the free-kicks he gains from the fouls that he 'invites' ..

If there is one aspect of his game that could be improved , it is his heading , which is by no means bad , but could I feel be even more useful with a 10-15% improvement ..but this is nit-picking really , as he is certainly the best centre forward Derby have had since the turn of the century ..

[sage]

You missed my point. Martin does NOT play as a target man. Andy Carroll, Peter Crouch or Drogba play as target men. Chris Martin plays as a lone striker, more like a Giroud or Costa. His feet are more important than his physical stature or aerial ability.

I didn't miss your point. I wrote target man/pivot specifically. Whatever you want to call the role, you need good control but also a lot of strength and the ability to combine the two.   

 

Pre Bent, Dawkins could come closest to fulfilling that role, but would lack the strength when challenged.

 

 So you think Ward can play the lone striker role as you choose to call it, remotely as well as Martin?

[Kernow]

Martin is a target man in the sense that we hit him with the ball. But he controls it, holds it up and brings other players in to the game. He's not the typical Howard type target man that flicks on long balls for other players to run on to.

 

His build and strength make him good for this role but also his touch and awareness. That's what we'd miss. I think our striking options would be able to replace the goals he brings but whether they'd be able to bring the overall team-play is another question.

[Mostyn6]

I didn't miss your point. I wrote target man/pivot specifically. Whatever you want to call the role, you need good control but also a lot of strength and the ability to combine the two.   

 

Pre Bent, Dawkins could come closest to fulfilling that role, but would lack the strength when challenged.

 

 So you think Ward can play the lone striker role as you choose to call it, remotely as well as Martin?

 

Yeah sorry Sage, I was meant to mention the pivot role, but my phone rang so I posted what I'd typed. In terms of that, if I understand what you're getting at, to pick Jamie Ward or Johnny Russell as examples, they can spin, lay-off, close-control and accelerate over a couple of yards well enough to play the role. The only thing they'd struggle with is long diagonal aerial balls, but Martin only has a handful of them per game anyway.

 

I think Ward could be as effective, but in subtly different way. 

[RamNut]

rubbish mate. How does Sergio Aguero manage? How did Malcolm Christie manage? How did Michael Owen manage? How does Lionel Messi manage? Even at this level, how does someone like Ross McCormack (last season) manage?

Aguero doesn't play with his back to goal, nor did owen, nor does messi

(Christie? That's a joke right?)

you are confusing the centre forward with the second striker.

Its like saying kevin hector, but forgetting about john o'hare.

If you want to stick with a deep lying link man then owen, messi and aguero are irrelevant.

Swindlehurst yes.

Baiano yes

Charlie george possibly.

Malcolm christie.....lol....

[sage]

rubbish mate. How does Sergio Aguero manage? How did Malcolm Christie manage? How did Michael Owen manage? How does Lionel Messi manage? Even at this level, how does someone like Ross McCormack (last season) manage?

He manages by being one of the 10 best players in the world, receiving better protection from refs and playing with better players, therefore receiving better, more accurate passes, more often along the floor.  

[Uptherams]

We are too reliant on Martin in the sense that for however long it is now, we have not had proper back up. Hopefully with Bent we do. 

[Mostyn6]

Aguero doesn't play with his back to goal, nor did owen, nor does messi

(Christie? That's a joke right?)

you are confusing the centre forward with the second striker.

Its like saying kevin hector, but forgetting about john o'hare.

If you want to stick with a deep lying link man then owen, messi and aguero are irrelevant.

Swindlehurst yes.

Baiano yes

Charlie george possibly.

Malcolm christie.....lol....

 

Who said anything about back to goal? I listed a whole load of things and you pick that one out?

 

I suggest you watch some Man City on TV once Aguero returns, he plays most of the game with his back to goal linking play with Silva/Toure/Milner etc. As for Owen, I was highlighting that your Its about smashing a few goals with a 6'5 centre half trying to haul you back. Some of those lightweights couldn't do it. comment was nonsense.

[RamNut]

Who said anything about back to goal?.

 

Erm....

 

His close control, from waist down, is very good, as is his awareness with his back to goal.

[TroyDyer]

I think Martin brings far more than goals. His hold up play is superb and without that, we simply wouldn't be able to play the way we do. Losing him would be a tragedy for our season IMO. 

[RamNut]

Martins role is to drop deep and help link the play.

He does that with his back to goal with a centre half trying to wrestle him off the ball.

The other part of his job is to smash a few goals in the penakty area.

Ward is a winger.

Dawkins is a midfielder.

ibe is a winger.

None of those can play the role that Martin fulfills.