England v Uruguay

[Leicester Ram]

Agree with Alph on the system idea. We'd have been better off playing the Derby 4-3-3 with Lallana, Henderson and Wilshire then Sterling, Ox and Sturridge up top.

2 holding midfielders when you're the better team seems to hold you back, there was nowhere near enough bodies attacking and nowhere near enough positivity.

[Spanish]

This thread is full of people to blame. If you want to blame anyone, blame yourselves. We have, by helping Sky and others dominate the football scene, allowed our Premier League to become a playboys paradise for any footballing mercenary across the world. Young players rarely emerge and when they do, we build them up to be world beaters. Last night, the team looked so nervous. They knew how we would treat them if they lost.

They aren't bad players. However, they lack a leader (in my book, the centre half should be the leader) and they lack a goalscorer. With those two, we would be celebrating our second victory.

Blame is so negative. Enjoy the sunshine!

I won't accept the blame!  I can see your point about Sky and I would never defend them but lets face it we have been **** for a long time before sky arrived.

[StaffsRam]

To be honest I don't think that's the problem at all. Having foreigners improve the standard of the league increases competition and will ultimaltely mean the young players who are good enough will improve more in such a competitive environment.I don't know, the whole "dem damn foreigners" attitude seems more a xenophobic attitude than one based on anything.

The issue muddying the waters is the extortionate price of English players. Look at Thorne for example and the ridiculous valuation placed on a player who has yet to prove himself, or even have a chance at PL level. A problem that's compounded by the introduction of FFFP. Teams will go for the best value options, and those options aren't English.

The imposition of league rules around a minimum number of English players would IMO force sides to concentrate on the development of young English players as that would be the cheapest way of adhering to the rules, and force teams to hold realistic values of English players as without mutual fair pricing they'd all end up falling foul of FFFP.

The core suggestion of improving the number of English players playing at PL level though, I don't see as xenophobic. English players in the PL accounted for c30% last season. I'd imagine that that's probably the lowest out of the major domestic leagues across Europe.

Fewer players at PL level means fewer players getting that level of experience. We've gone from an England squad containing 4/5 Man Utd players to one containing 3/4 Southampton players. Eventually that could become 3/4 Wolves players. If it weren't for Liverpool giving their kids a chance we'd be in an even bleaker situation than we already are IMO.

[IlsonDerby]

I really can't see a cb with the ability to read the game well. Cahill is a "stopper" but he needs a clever player with him. Jack Charlton would have never played for England if he hadn't got Bobby Moore alongside him.

 

Is there an englishman out there capable of doing it? 

 

John Stones is one of the classiest central defenders I've seen in a very long time! Played well for Everton last season and never panicked. Usually brought the ball down and passed it from the back as oppose to lumpin the fxcker

[uttoxram75]

John Stones is one of the classiest central defenders I've seen in a very long time! Played well for Everton last season and never panicked. Usually brought the ball down and passed it from the back as oppose to lumpin the fxcker

Good call, he does seem to have potential. Would he have "read" the missed header from Gerrard? The run of Suarez? Maybe he would.....trouble is with England selection is possession is 9/10ths of the law! Not just Roy either but all the way back to Alf Ramsay.

[Ovis aries]

If we lose all three games what then ?.

[Spanish]

If we lose all three games what then ?.

I think we may be out?

[DerbyPride]

I may be grasping at straws but Italy can't actually go through tonight, even if they win. That means they can't afford to field a significantly weakened team against Uruguay because they could still theoretically go out (give or take a Costa Rica win against us and a swing in goal difference). However, they would only need a point to be guaranteed top spot and if there's anything the Italians do well it is play for a point.

[Albert]

The issue muddying the waters is the extortionate price of English players. Look at Thorne for example and the ridiculous valuation placed on a player who has yet to prove himself, or even have a chance at PL level. A problem that's compounded by the introduction of FFFP. Teams will go for the best value options, and those options aren't English.

The imposition of league rules around a minimum number of English players would IMO force sides to concentrate on the development of young English players as that would be the cheapest way of adhering to the rules, and force teams to hold realistic values of English players as without mutual fair pricing they'd all end up falling foul of FFFP.

The core suggestion of improving the number of English players playing at PL level though, I don't see as xenophobic. English players in the PL accounted for c30% last season. I'd imagine that that's probably the lowest out of the major domestic leagues across Europe.

Fewer players at PL level means fewer players getting that level of experience. We've gone from an England squad containing 4/5 Man Utd players to one containing 3/4 Southampton players. Eventually that could become 3/4 Wolves players. If it weren't for Liverpool giving their kids a chance we'd be in an even bleaker situation than we already are IMO.

By forcing a number of English players into each team you'd only drive the value of those English players up higher. If a team like Man City needed to have, say 15 English players in their 25 man squad, then they'd make damn sure they'd have the best 15 they could get.

All forcing quotas on it would do is create an artificial increase in demand, which in turn would simply drive up the price, making English players even more over valued then they are.

Changes are needed in England, but it seems more a case of academy level in talent identification and nurturing, as this seems to be the key hole in the English system. There is this tendency to favour the bigger stronger youngsters than ones who are better on the ball, and this is telling by the likes of the top players England produces in comparison to Germany and Spain. Simply shoving English players into a league of lower quality wouldn't do anything to change that situation, and would likely only keep driving the quality down.

To be honest though I doubt that such issues will be dealt with as it's much easier for everyone to shout "DEM FOREIGNERS!!! TAKING ENGLISH JOBS!!" than it is to have a long hard look at the real issues. "England for the English" rolls off the tongue better than "a gradual process of changing academy systems, practices and standards".

The whole financial fair play discussion is an interesting one though. Coupling it with quotas on English players would actually be hilarious from the continent. You start by preventing English clubs from spending well beyond their means, then force them to drive up the price of English players further. Without dealing with the underlying issues it could simply end up knackering the league and have it essentially eat itself with the value of English players.

I guess the point that is generally missed though is that the leagues which do work by player quotas generally aren't top leagues, and their very best players, the ones that are stars for their national teams, play overseas, outside of that league. England could go that way, at the cost of the Premier League as it now is, but that would require that the best English players go overseas at the peak of their careers. People will point to Germany and Spain for examples of it done right, but the primary differences are their best players not all being home based (different styles) and better youth development programs.

[Bris Vegas]

English players simply won't go overseas, because the amount of money they can earn by playing in the Championship let alone the Premier League is more than what you can earn by playing in France, Portugal, Holland etc.. outside of the top clubs.

 

Nobody will want to go and earn 15k a week at Villarreal or Espanyol when they can earn 30k a week at Stoke City or West Ham United.

 

England have so many problems it's unreal. Starting from the training and academy level upwards, there is a huge number of English players aged 18-21 simply dropping off the radar because they have nowhere to go.

 

Not all the youngsters at Spurs, Everton, Arsenal and Liverpool etc. can make the first-team squad so all of thoser that don't end up going out on loan. Yet, their loan spells at Huddersfield, Leeds United, Sheff Wednesday, Charlton etc.. is utterly useless when they're being put into an environment of hoofball and crunching tackles - that isn't footballing development/experiece, it is simply ruining a player's prospects as everthing he has learned in his academy has been thrown out of the window.

 

In Spain, Holland and Germany teams playing in the fourth tier adopt a similar style to those in the top tier. Not in England, outside of the big 5 or so in the PL  95% play survival, mediocre percentage football. How will this develop youngsters? It can't...

 

Harps backs to the earlier point. England needs an identity - trying to field just the best XI available will never be enough for us to win a trophy. Never.

[Uptherams]

English players simply won't go overseas, because the amount of money they can earn by playing in the Championship let alone the Premier League is more than what you can earn by playing in France, Portugal, Holland etc.. outside of the top clubs.

 

Nobody will want to go and earn 15k a week at Villarreal or Espanyol when they can earn 30k a week at Stoke City or West Ham United.

 

England have so many problems it's unreal. Starting from the training and academy level upwards, there is a huge number of English players aged 18-21 simply dropping off the radar because they have nowhere to go.

 

Not all the youngsters at Spurs, Everton, Arsenal and Liverpool etc. can make the first-team squad so all of thoser that don't end up going out on loan. Yet, their loan spells at Huddersfield, Leeds United, Sheff Wednesday, Charlton etc.. is utterly useless when they're being put into an environment of hoofball and crunching tackles - that isn't footballing development/experiece, it is simply ruining a player's prospects as everthing he has learned in his academy has been thrown out of the window.

 

In Spain, Holland and Germany teams playing in the fourth tier adopt a similar style to those in the top tier. Not in England, outside of the big 5 or so in the PL  95% play survival, mediocre percentage football. How will this develop youngsters? It can't...

 

Harps backs to the earlier point. England needs an identity - trying to field just the best XI available will never be enough for us to win a trophy. Never.

 

 

On the fringes of the Spain squad, German squad and even in the Holland squad are very average players. We just don't have that core group of top quality professionals. The other day you were talking about Italy being the best team in Europe. I'd imagine you no longer have that opinion. The problem with English football from grassroots level up is that we never give the intelligent players team players a chance. Anyone who is a coach on this forum, stick that selfish player on the bench. English football will be better for it and the kids themselves will enjoy football more. The selfish player is poisonous. No one else will express themselves and do anything other than what that selfish player dictates. 

 

Wayne Rooney yet again last night sums this up. The game against Italy he came back from the front line to take the ball off Barkley's feet when he was about to let loose a shot. Barkley was in shock. Then last night Rooney came even deeper in an attempt to do the same. Luckily Barkley managed to pass it out wide just before Rooney took it off his feet. Those are the actions of an asshole. A selfish poisonous player. An ego. Just a glance at Rooney's off pitch affairs shows exactly why he should be put in his place or thrown out of the squad. Some might think Rooney has still been an incredible player. Correct. But he would have been one of the best ever if he wasn't such a selfish poisonous *****. 

 

Rooney is in for a shock when he returns to United. If he wasn't on such a ridiculous contract I suspect he would be gone by January. 

[Bris Vegas]

On the fringes of the Spain squad, German squad and even in the Holland squad are very average players. We just don't have that core group of top quality professionals. The other day you were talking about Italy being the best team in Europe. 

 

Spain and Germany left some cracking players out of their squad, though Holland I'd agree with - but even so a squad without stars can still go very far if they have an identity and style ec. and know what their role is.

 

I never said Italy were the best in Europe, I just said they're a good team which they are.