BondJovi Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Comparing the Champions League and the World Cup is a bollaeux argument in the first place. Totally different tournaments which have different requirements. Messi for Barcelona is part of a great team who have trained and worked together for a while, they know each other, you do not get that in a world cup, the squads have such little time together. To shine in a world cup is something different, not better or worse than a Champions League. Some players may only get one shot at a world cup in their career, other great players never get a chance. The difference for me is that if you shine at the world cup, you have done so on the global stage, you aren't surrounded by the greatest players in the world, so in some ways it is harder to make that impact. There is far more romance attached, you don't become a hero for your club, you become a hero for your country. If any element of national pride exists then this tournament brings it out. Take Roger Milla, I know nothing of his club record, but he is a world cup legend. The usual suspects light up the CL(currently), the world cup offers such a wider scope for heroes. I have no idea where or why I am going on with this. I just disagree with the downplaying of the world cup, like it isn't a big tournament. However, is Messi really less of a brilliant player because he hasn't won a world cup? That said if he dragged Argentina to victory his claim as greatest might be unquestionable. If Lambert scored the goals that won England the world cup, he'd be a legend, but that would not make him a brilliant player. If he was top scorer in the champions league for the next few seasons and the premier league....hmmm... Now I lie down...and read this later to ponder what ***** I just spouted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabber Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Comparing the Champions League and the World Cup is a bollaeux argument in the first place. Totally different tournaments which have different requirements. Messi for Barcelona is part of a great team who have trained and worked together for a while, they know each other, you do not get that in a world cup, the squads have such little time together. To shine in a world cup is something different, not better or worse than a Champions League. Some players may only get one shot at a world cup in their career, other great players never get a chance. The difference for me is that if you shine at the world cup, you have done so on the global stage, you aren't surrounded by the greatest players in the world, so in some ways it is harder to make that impact. There is far more romance attached, you don't become a hero for your club, you become a hero for your country. If any element of national pride exists then this tournament brings it out. Take Roger Milla, I know nothing of his club record, but he is a world cup legend. The usual suspects light up the CL(currently), the world cup offers such a wider scope for heroes. I have no idea where or why I am going on with this. I just disagree with the downplaying of the world cup, like it isn't a big tournament. However, is Messi really less of a brilliant player because he hasn't won a world cup? That said if he dragged Argentina to victory his claim as greatest might be unquestionable. If Lambert scored the goals that won England the world cup, he'd be a legend, but that would not make him a brilliant player. If he was top scorer in the champions league for the next few seasons and the premier league....hmmm... Now I lie down...and read this later to ponder what ***** I just spouted... Nah, was all good stuff BJ, I agree with every word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Comparing the Champions League and the World Cup is a bollaeux argument in the first place. Totally different tournaments which have different requirements. Messi for Barcelona is part of a great team who have trained and worked together for a while, they know each other, you do not get that in a world cup, the squads have such little time together. To shine in a world cup is something different, not better or worse than a Champions League. Some players may only get one shot at a world cup in their career, other great players never get a chance. The difference for me is that if you shine at the world cup, you have done so on the global stage, you aren't surrounded by the greatest players in the world, so in some ways it is harder to make that impact. There is far more romance attached, you don't become a hero for your club, you become a hero for your country. If any element of national pride exists then this tournament brings it out. Take Roger Milla, I know nothing of his club record, but he is a world cup legend. The usual suspects light up the CL(currently), the world cup offers such a wider scope for heroes. I have no idea where or why I am going on with this. I just disagree with the downplaying of the world cup, like it isn't a big tournament. However, is Messi really less of a brilliant player because he hasn't won a world cup? That said if he dragged Argentina to victory his claim as greatest might be unquestionable. If Lambert scored the goals that won England the world cup, he'd be a legend, but that would not make him a brilliant player. If he was top scorer in the champions league for the next few seasons and the premier league....hmmm... Now I lie down...and read this later to ponder what ***** I just spouted... Good points. Seemed like a rant. Cheer up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I have no doubt that the World Cup holds that romantic feeling, because it does. It gives nations from all over the world a hope to see their best players represent their countries (if they've qualified that is). But not all players feel that way. Lionel Messi openly admits that he would trade all of his other trophies and personal awards for that of a World Cup, whereas Iker Casillas and Sergio Ramos have both already said that winning La Decima with Real Madrid meant more than the World Cup with Spain. Didn't Carragher once say after a missing a penalty for England. 'At least it wasn't for Liverpool' or soemthing like that? The game has evolved so much since the older days, and I'm sorry to say this, but the Champions League is what matters most to 90% of the players/fans of top clubs nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 The Champions League involves all the best players because it's a competiton for Europe's best teams and Europe's best teams have all the best players in the world. There might be some - for instance Ivan Rakitic - who is a phenonemal player yet to play at CL level but will at some point in his life I'm 100% sure of that. But don't be fooled into thinking the best players don't play in Europe. The Brazilian/Mexican leagues are supposedly 'good with excellent talent' but Barcelona beating Santos 8-0 is proof that the gap is world's apart. No way does the World Cup have the best players, becausei it's a competition every four years for six weeks only. What about players who were born in countries that have next to no chance, or ones that are simply injured. Did you know 12 players that spent time on the pitch in the Champions League final isn't going to the World Cup. I could give you loads of names of top class players who aren't playing at the World Cup, in fact I'll give you a world class XI who aren't going to be there. GK - Petr Cech RB - Daniel Carvajal CB - Miranda CB - Marquinhos LB - Filipe Luis CM - Marco Reus CM - Montolivio CM - Arda Turan RW - Ribery ST - Ibrahimovic LW - Gareth Bale Team number two GK - Victor Valdes RB - Branislav Ivanovic CB - Marc Bartra CB - Neven Subotic LB - Marcel Schmelzer CM - Isco CM - Henrikh Mkhitaryan CM - Samir Nasri RW - Lucas Moura ST - Robert Lewandowski LW - Carlot Tevez Theo Walcott, Cristian Tello, Jesus Navas, Alvaro Negredo, Nuri Sahin, Illarramendi, Nemanja Matic, Jakub Blaszczykowski, Rafinha, Gabi, Jovetic plus so many more not included. How can a World Cup with teams like South Korea, Iran, Australia, Japan, Greece, Costa Rica, Honduras, Nigeria, Algeria and Cameroon (minus say Eto'o and Alex Song) be deemed the best competition with the best players? Absolutely.... Not. But you could say the same about players who aren't in the champions league, suarzez for example, and didnt tevez play in the europa last year. Next year will see man utd not competing in the cl, and im sure we will see one or two world class players going there, not because the cl means more to them but the dollars do. Also most the players you listed played in the qualifiers, and therefore have played in the competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 But you could say the same about players who aren't in the champions league, suarzez for example, and didnt tevez play in the europa last year. Next year will see man utd not competing in the cl, and im sure we will see one or two world class players going there, not because the cl means more to them but the dollars do. Also most the players you listed played in the qualifiers, and therefore have played in the competition. Tevez played in the CL, Juve were just knocked out. And Suarez will play in it next year, the same goes for Falcao. There is no point in pointing to one season, as the Champions League is every year and within a three-year span all of the best players in the world will have played in it. The World Cup is different, and players such as Gareth Bale and Henrikh Mkhitaryan have no chance, as Wales and Armenia simply won't quality. Like Leicester Ram pointed out, the World Cup is just a seven game tournament played between players who are almost like strangers to eachother. Luck plays a huge part, as nobody can honestly say uruguay were the fourth best team at the 2010 tournament - especially as they all-but cheated to get past Ghana. Also you can't use qualifiers as participating in the tournament, because nobody cares about them and why would they when the likes of San Marino, Andorra and Luxembourg just make up the numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Let's take a look at England's XI vs Honduras... GK - Hart - solid RB - Glenn Johnson - not top quality CB - Phil Jagielka - Everton, not top quality CB - Gary Cahill - good LB - Leighton Baines - solid enough CM - Henderson - good, but static. CM - Gerrard - hollywood, rubbish defensively CM - Lallana - 25m you're having a laugh RW - Welbeck - can't hit a barn door ST - Rooney - past his peak, overrated LW - Sturridge - good, I like him I'd quite happily trade like all of those for players who aren't going this summer - and I'm not talking about injuries, more players that aren't going because of nationality. GK - Petr Cech RB - Daniel Carvajal CB - Miranda CB - Neven Subotic LB - Filipe Luis CM - Arda Turan CM - Isco CM - Nemanja Matic RW - Lucas Moura ST - Robert Lewandowski LW - Gareth Bale My team would hammer England's team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 miranda is big enough to be a centre back, but she's not very funny, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Let's take a look at England's XI vs Honduras... GK - Hart - solid RB - Glenn Johnson - not top quality CB - Phil Jagielka - Everton, not top quality CB - Gary Cahill - good LB - Leighton Baines - solid enough CM - Henderson - good, but static. CM - Gerrard - hollywood, rubbish defensively CM - Lallana - 25m you're having a laugh RW - Welbeck - can't hit a barn door ST - Rooney - past his peak, overrated LW - Sturridge - good, I like him I'd quite happily trade like all of those for players who aren't going this summer - and I'm not talking about injuries, more players that aren't going because of nationality. GK - Petr Cech RB - Daniel Carvajal CB - Miranda CB - Neven Subotic LB - Filipe Luis CM - Arda Turan CM - Isco CM - Nemanja Matic RW - Lucas Moura ST - Robert Lewandowski LW - Gareth Bale My team would hammer England's team. Dont get your point? The question I would ask you, given you said that the Champions league is harder to win, which was your original point. Would you expect the players listed in the England team more likely to get a winners medal for the world cup or the Champions league? I mean you wouldn't expect to see gerrard based upon view of him having a champions league medal would you ? The world cup is more difficult to win based upon lots of factors; including you can't buy the best players to help you achieve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abertawe_ram Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 COME ON CROATIA!!! Who are you all supporting now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Still in it....so still England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Italy for the next 2 games.....clutching at straws! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Colombia from what I've seen. Mexico maybe? Like to see Messi shut Pele up but that would mean Argentina. I like Neymar's arrogance but he comes with David Luiz. So Colombia I think. But if it's between Brazil, Holland, Germany and Argentina as realistic favourites then Holland and the awesome Robben. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 anyone but Holland...arrogant to the extreme..! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 anyone but Holland...arrogant to the extreme..! I thought they'd written themselves off? Well that's what I heard from itv. The channel that employs Chiles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Belgium - for the beer, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaffsRam Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Germany. Great side, and fantastic to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshfieldRam Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 USA USA USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovis aries Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Chile, just for their attitude and fantastic support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRamFan Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Italy for the next 2 games, with that many Catholics playing a miricle might just happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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