Mostyn6 Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I'd rather draw 3-3 than 0-0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMuffin Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 But Keane played for us and was **** Only against Leicester playing on his wrong side next to Buxton. Who is ***** most weeks but is put on a pedalstool. It's embarrassing Like you say Leicester have a better defence than us. He got into THAT defence but not ours!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YorkshireRam Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I think it's more to do with our defensive style of play, rather than the quality of our players. For me, it was most noticeable against Yeovil. Our defenders sit very deep and will back off attackers when the opposition is pressing, this invites pressure on the back 4 as it allows more opposing players to get forward. I recognise I know very little about football tactics but I think we should try and press teams when they are attacking, give them no space. That way we win back possession quicker and build from the back (where a lot of our goals come from, holding the ball). Have 2 defenders shutting the men down with 1 sitting to 'mop up' as it were. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky1884 Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Are we really blaming Bucko as being the problem defender?? Have you seen how pathetic Keogh has been since the Brighton game? He was directly at fault for goals conceded against Blackburn and Yeovil. Caught in possession against blackburn and brushed aside by miller against Yeovil, Buckos not perfect but I've got alot more faith in him than I have in Kepgh at the minute. Easy to blame bucko all the "fans" on facebook do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMuffin Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I think it's more to do with our defensive style of play, rather than the quality of our players. For me, it was most noticeable against Yeovil. Our defenders sit very deep and will back off attackers when the opposition is pressing, this invites pressure on the back 4 as it allows more opposing players to get forward. I recognise I know very little about football tactics but I think we should try and press teams when they are attacking, give them no space. That way we win back possession quicker and build from the back (where a lot of our goals come from, holding the ball). Have 2 defenders shutting the men down with 1 sitting to 'mop up' as it were. Just my opinion. Sort of agree. The backing off comes from Buxton he's terrable for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derbados Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Only against Leicester playing on his wrong side next to Buxton who is ***** most weeks but is put on a pedalstool. It's embarrassing Do you rate Keoghs performances since Brighton better than Buckos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyHudson Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Sort of agree. The backing off comes from Buxton he's terrable for it The backing off comes from *all* of the defence, including Eustace. If it was just Bucko, there wouldn't be a problem as the other 4 would be closing down. They back pedal as a unit which invites the pressure around the edge of the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMuffin Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Only against Leicester playing on his wrong side next to Buxton who is ***** most weeks but is put on a pedalstool. It's embarrassing Do you rate Keoghs performances since Brighton better than Buckos? Agree Keogh is hit and miss but Buxtons constant backing off drags our defence all over the place. Would like to see Keogh alongside Whitbread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Only against Leicester playing on his wrong side next to Buxton who is ***** most weeks but is put on a pedalstool. It's embarrassing Do you rate Keoghs performances since Brighton better than Buckos?I think we are missing the point here . For what it's worth we need to try Whitbread out sometime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMuffin Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 The backing off comes from *all* of the defence, including Eustace. If it was just Bucko, there wouldn't be a problem as the other 4 would be closing down. They back pedal as a unit which invites the pressure around the edge of the box. Watch Buxton he backs off backs off backs off. Why because if he steps up he gets skinned. Cannot cope at this level he's just been lucky and done well to hide it because we score so many. If we weren't scoring my god where would we be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derbados Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I think we are missing the point here . For what it's worth we need to try Whitbread out sometime. Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YorkshireRam Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Sort of agree. The backing off comes from Buxton he's terrable for it Yeah, Keogh used to go in Gung-Ho while Buxton used to sit. Keogh though now also seems to drop off and not offer a challenge. John Eustace is normally the one who goes in for the hard tackles and wins the ball back, however he has seemed to be off pace recently and backing out of challanges. This lets players wander into our half without us offering any resistance and then either picking a pass or shooting themselves and scoring. Yeovil's 1st-Lundstram is a prime example, no-one wants, or attempts to try and stop him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyHudson Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Watch Buxton he backs off backs off backs off. Why because if he steps up he gets skinned. Cannot cope at this level he's just been lucky and done well to hide it because we score so many. If we weren't scoring my god where would we be? Not arguing your first point. We all know he lacks pace (and I'm sure he's fully aware of the fact himself) but I'd hardly say he cannot cope at this level. In fact I seem to recall him having a very respectable showing against Chelsea not long ago. Fair enough we conceded two that day but it was nowehere near the cricket score some expected, and tellingly, they had to bring on £80M worth of substitutes to break us down. I know he can't dine out on that performance forever, but at what point do the anti Bucko brigade stop insisting he's somehow managing to bluff his way through his career and admit that he's a good, solid Championship defender who's been very important to us for the last few years? He's certainly not the second coming of Maldini, but he's also not on a par with the CB from the Dog & Duck, and for people to repeatedly insist he is (not directing this at you necessarily, McMuffin) smacks of having an axe to grind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMuffin Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Yeah, Keogh used to go in Gung-Ho while Buxton used to sit. Keogh though now also seems to drop off and not offer a challenge. John Eustace is normally the one who goes in for the hard tackles and wins the ball back, however he has seemed to be off pace recently and backing out of challanges. This lets players wander into our half without us offering any resistance and then either picking a pass or shooting themselves and scoring. Yeovil's 1st-Lundstram is a prime example, no-one wants, or attempts to try and stop him. Will be shocked if Whitbread doesn't start against QPR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaffsRam Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 From the comments here, we'd have been better off keeping Keane and playing him and Whitbread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daaave Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 We back off when caught on the counter and there's a man running at us. If one of the back 4 dives in in that situation and doesn't win the challenge they've either got a guy going clean through towards Grant or another defender has to come across, potentially leaving another attacker free. I think it's actually quite rare to see us back off if we have our shape and our midfield back and I think in those situations we are fairly solid. And regarding our defending from set pieces I'd suggest we've been above average in that area since McClaren came in but I'm not above being proved wrong in this regard. As some have already alluded to, our problems in defence come primarily from our style of play and our eagerness to get forward and score more goals. Yes our CBs make some mistakes but you could put Beckenbauer and Baresi (in their prime, before anyone gets clever ) in there and we'd still ship a good amount of goals, it's part and parcel of the style of football we play right now. Personally I'd argue that the DM is the most important defensive player in the style we play. The major threat comes from counter attacks and we need someone who can read the danger and quickly intercept or break these up to let us get men back behind the ball. Eustace was doing this very well during our good run (and Cisse did it superbly vs Wednesday) but for me he's been found wanting a little bit in the last few games. That said we've still been a touch unlucky in my mind to concede 5 goals from maybe 10 reasonable opportunities in the last 2 games, At the end of the day, we're playing some great attacking football and despite today's setback I think we're certainly on the right track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyHudson Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 This lets players wander into our half without us offering any resistance and then either picking a pass or shooting themselves and scoring. Yeovil's 1st-Lundstram is a prime example, no-one wants, or attempts to try and stop him. Leicester's first was the same as well. The one-two happened right where Eustace should be sticking his boot in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMuffin Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Not arguing your first point. We all know he lacks pace (and I'm sure he's fully aware of the fact himself) but I'd hardly say he cannot cope at this level. In fact I seem to recall him having a very respectable showing against Chelsea not long ago. Fair enough we conceded two that day but it was nowehere near the cricket score some expected, and tellingly, they had to bring on £80M worth of substitutes to break us down. I know he can't dine out on that performance forever, but at what point do the anti Bucko brigade stop insisting he's somehow managing to bluff his way through his career and admit that he's a good, solid Championship defender who's been very important to us for the last few years? He's certainly not the second coming of Maldini, but he's also not on a par with the CB from the Dog & Duck, and for people to repeatedly insist he is (not directing this at you necessarily, McMuffin) smacks of having an axe to grind. Look all I want is Derby to do well and progress. I could take him as back up but for me and where we want to go we need better a lot better. Whenever we face owt decent he more than anyone looks out of his depth. I know you say Chelsea but they cruised they didn't go for the jugular and REALLY go at our defence did they? So he was safe from exposure against them. It was a training exercise for them it really was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerbyRam! Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Ive said this before, eustace is fine and can do us a job, but only for 60minutes or so, when we were 3-1 up today he should have been substituted off and thorne(fresh younger player) should have been given his chance. Eustace simply doesnt have the legs for more than 60-65minutes in a game, especially with his already slow pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YorkshireRam Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Will be shocked if Whitbread doesn't start against QPR For who though? I do like Whitbread though, looks a very solid CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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