Fed up of Clough

[Jacko1983]

Here we go.. Derbys 3 major honours are a bigger achievement than Forest's 10.. That's what is coming next isn't it? 

 

As much as it amuses me, il bow out and leave you to the original posters question.

 

it was in response to you winning the european cup and then calling it the champions league.

 

neither team has won the premier league, that was my point.

[SuperSheep]

If we have players that are worth millions why are we so ****?

so ****? I'm sorry, are we supporting a team from something like the blue square bet premier? No? Okay. You must not be a long term supporter if you think this is when derby are *****.

[sausagemeat]

I have to say that i was one of those supporters who was excited by the Russell signing but i had never seen him play. I read that he was good but had not watched a dundee utd game. If he turns out to be a failure then he joins an ever growing number of clough signings that have risen without a trace and again he must accept responsibility for that.

I see what you are trying to say about the team trying to win playing attractive football but the win record under clough shows that they are failing in the task, if you want an example of what you are getting at the look no further than Swansea. They went from 3rd div to prem playing fantastic football, deliverd by a team that did'nt cost a fortune.

The difference between them and us was a very good chairman who wanted to get promoted and a talented manager/managers who could spot talent and deploy it effectively.

Brilliant post - accurate and truthful supprted by the facts - not false delusional hopes of some NC ardent supporters

[notts_ram]

If we have players that are worth millions why are we so ****?

The sum of the parts isnt equal to the whole. Or they have poor direction from their manager.

[G STAR RAM]

you must be right !! Grant is brilliant - Russell is GREAT and know you throw Bertrand into the pot who has nothing to do with DCFC sums up your defence of NC !!

 

No you are right, we should never have sold Fielding, Sammon should still be playing up front and you never tried to use the fact that a young lad not getting in a Premier League starting 11 makes him not a very good player.

[sausagemeat]

No you are right, we should never have sold Fielding, Sammon should still be playing up front and you never tried to use the fact that a young lad not getting in a Premier League starting 11 makes him not a very good player.

Now you chuck Sammmon into the pot !! another useless signing by NC !!!

[Day]

If it wasn't for Clough, players like Hughes, Bennett And hendrick wouldn't be anywhere near the standards they are now. Worth millions between Them. So when they get sold, remember it was Clough's judgment that got them their.

So at least we know he's done one thing right.

Unfair on the players tbh, can never say where would they be if it wasn't for Nigel, they could have been even better who knows.

[G STAR RAM]

Now you chuck Sammmon into the pot !! another useless signing by NC !!!

 

But Russell isn't an improvement right? Just so I can begin to understand which part of my original post you disagreed with.

[SuperSheep]

Winners never quit, quitters never win.

-Vince lombardi

[BondJovi]

To a certain extent. Look at the reaction of alot of people on here when we signed Russell. Now when he goes through one on one and hits it to the opposition goalie how does Clough have any control over that? Or all of a sudden is he a bad player and a bad signing?

 

Defensively we are sh*te and I can't believe nothing has been done about it. If it is that which stops us from progressing then ultimately I agree Clough should fall on his own sword.

 

if Clough left now I would have very few highlights from his managerial stint in charge, however, in years to come we might really reap the benefits of the seeds he has sown.

 

I just can't agree when people come on here and say we have not progressed in 5 years. We have a young team that actually tries to play attractive football and a team that is worth tenfold the squad that Clough inherited.

 

Not saying we are great but if you compare todays squad to the one that got tonked by Ssausagehorpe at home they are poles apart in my opinion.

 

Can't argue with any of that. I think Clough has put down some great foundations. However, as you say we are crap defensively and I am in danger of sounding like a certain poster here but I just don't think we are well organised as a defensive unit and there comes a point when a manager has to take responsibility for that, we simply cannot keep conceding soft goals.

 

Dare I say it, because of the so called financial restraints we don't have the stars to cover the problems, thus putting even more emphasis on the team being a unit both attacking and defensive.

As discussed on a previous post, I do think there is a danger of clinging on to the Clough can do it idea. Simply because football needs this kind of fairytale, it needs the romance, the nostalgia. I want Derby promoted but it would be so much better if Clough did it, it really would. Sadly I think he has reached his capabilities and nothing so far this season has changed that view. I hope I am wrong.

 

[rammieib]

Are we as a club in a better position than five years ago off the field? Yes I agree we are but that has held back on the field. Have we been lucky to have a manager who has been more than willing to abide by what the club has given him...yes we are. We as fans have just grown to accept that two things, 1) it will be what it will be and no-one can really be bothered and 2) the majority have fallen foul of the same old spin that the club put out every year.

Andy Appleby will be somewhere in the States right now, having listened to the game and now just getting on with whatever his day is being. I sincerely doubt he will give a flying fook we have just been knocked out by a second string eleven (against a first string for us). He and his worldly gang of investors will put the four or five million in at the end of the year to subsidise us (although IMO that is money he will want to recoup one day if and when he sells up). So what are we left with?

Well we are left with a limited investment which makes buying players a very big challenge. The importance of getting them right is so vital but when we do spend £600k plus on a signing, the paper, the radio, the club and a lot of the fans seems to think its the most amazing thing to ever happen to us. 10-15 years ago we were so Dissappointed with only spending £600k but we regularly spent more.

So the challenge and the onyly thing the fans can cling onto is a manager who can mould the players into a top six outfit. This he has failed to do in any of the last five seasons and this season is not going to be different. Anyone can see the defence isn't good enough and four home games and one point can prove to you that it is very long odds to do anything already. The home form will pick up but this will only be when the away form dies down... I simply do not see how we can progress under this manager anymore. If new investment came in, I would be willing to let him stay longer as I believe he knows how poor the defence is (for what its worth I think we are four good defenders missing) but he simply doesn't have any ability to sign new players.

Therefore give me a manager who has that little nous to make a difference. No I don't know who that is but a Holloway has done it with two teams now, a Brendan Rogers came from nowhere and did it with Swansea, a Roberto Martinez came from nowhere and did it with Swansea on his way up, Malky Mackay has a solid background. Could a Rene Meulensteen, Mike Phelan or a Paul Clement be tempted? They have all tasted the very top and know what to aspire to and achieve....I would sooner take a manager with that pedigree behind them rather than a manager whose pedigree was non-league followed by the comfort of signing those none league players....

[Mostyn6]

We've not invested to improve a squad that finished 10th. How do you expect us to suddenly be top 6?

I just don't get why fans are focusing on the manager. We don't have a top 6 playing budget, I doubt we have a top half playing budget. Any anger should be directed at the poor strategy being employed by the owners / board, not the manager.

We're Derby, why have we got American owners anyway? They don't care about Derby.

 

fans are focussing on the manager because he is IN ON IT. Either he's incompetent or he's LYING. Are you totally ignoring the constant quotes from Clough about being happy with his squad? What has the nationality of the owners got to do with anything. Is your employer British?

 

1.Clough is on low wages compared to other managers. IRRELEVANT 

2.We have one of if not the smallest squad. IRRELEVANT 

3.Brayford money went towards Smiths wages and paying off the Shight IRRELEVANT 

4.We have currently one of the best u16s in the country with a constant list of scouts coming. IRRELEVANT 

5.Forest is full off Prem rejects.If Jack hobbs is such a good signing why isnt he playing for Hull why are they using him. IRRELEVANT

6.We are making good movement towards clearing debt surely an overhaul of players would disrupt that.IRRELEVANT

7.When we go up we want to compete and have a chance to stay and try an establish the club. IRRELEVANT

8.Swansea went through 4 years of changing the philosophy of the club and they spent money a swell. IRRELEVANT

9.Bolton are wanting to finish top 3 they only have 3 points whos "Shocking". IRRELAVANT

10.you saw the mess of QPR buying alot of champ players just to go up but realising they are ONLY Champ players so they went and spent another fortune to stay in the league. IRRELEVANT

 

Take a reason from here and Move on......

 

Sorry DCFCNews, the list you compiled is absolutely irrelevant when trying to explain eleven men versus eleven men, and the inability to tactically outdo and opposing manager or hold on to a lead. 

 

If it wasn't for Clough, players like Hughes, Bennett And hendrick wouldn't be anywhere near the standards they are now. Worth millions between Them. So when they get sold, remember it was Clough's judgment that got them their.

So at least we know he's done one thing right.

 

Nonsense mate, you don't know for one minute whether anyone would do any better, worse or exactly the same.

[sheeponacid]

This season we have been sold our tickets based on us being playoff contenders and so far this season we have looked nothing like playoff contenders.

 

The Forest game is a pick-em contest where either team could win due to the rivalry.

 

We have Leeds and Ipswich at home after and i would class anything less than 4 points from these two games as not good enough. 

O come on mate...you saw the signings we made in the summer, they were woeful in the main... then you must off noticed one of our few decent players leave the club...so did you seriously expect us to be challenging this season????

 

I accept some of these signings & brayfords departure happened after renewals had been made, but after so many seasons of false promises of investment, please dont tell me you couldnt see past Rush's spin...

 

I brought my season ticket because I support Derby not because I was suckered in by what was an obvious tall tale of promotion dreams...& I will buy my ticket again next year when we sign the next load of cheap an cheerful recruits...& in the knowledge that Hendrick & Hughes will probably not be there...

 

We are not play off contenders full stop & never have been based on the players we have at the club...Martin, Forsythe, Russell, Eustace, ffs I would off sooner have not bother with em & kept Brayford...we are a middle of the table win some lose some club who will bobble around mid table again...

[G STAR RAM]

Are we as a club in a better position than five years ago off the field? Yes I agree we are but that has held back on the field. Have we been lucky to have a manager who has been more than willing to abide by what the club has given him...yes we are. We as fans have just grown to accept that two things, 1) it will be what it will be and no-one can really be bothered and 2) the majority have fallen foul of the same old spin that the club put out every year.

Andy Appleby will be somewhere in the States right now, having listened to the game and now just getting on with whatever his day is being. I sincerely doubt he will give a flying fook we have just been knocked out by a second string eleven (against a first string for us). He and his worldly gang of investors will put the four or five million in at the end of the year to subsidise us (although IMO that is money he will want to recoup one day if and when he sells up). So what are we left with?

Well we are left with a limited investment which makes buying players a very big challenge. The importance of getting them right is so vital but when we do spend £600k plus on a signing, the paper, the radio, the club and a lot of the fans seems to think its the most amazing thing to ever happen to us. 10-15 years ago we were so Dissappointed with only spending £600k but we regularly spent more.

So the challenge and the onyly thing the fans can cling onto is a manager who can mould the players into a top six outfit. This he has failed to do in any of the last five seasons and this season is not going to be different. Anyone can see the defence isn't good enough and four home games and one point can prove to you that it is very long odds to do anything already. The home form will pick up but this will only be when the away form dies down... I simply do not see how we can progress under this manager anymore. If new investment came in, I would be willing to let him stay longer as I believe he knows how poor the defence is (for what its worth I think we are four good defenders missing) but he simply doesn't have any ability to sign new players.

Therefore give me a manager who has that little nous to make a difference. No I don't know who that is but a Holloway has done it with two teams now, a Brendan Rogers came from nowhere and did it with Swansea, a Roberto Martinez came from nowhere and did it with Swansea on his way up, Malky Mackay has a solid background. Could a Rene Meulensteen, Mike Phelan or a Paul Clement be tempted? They have all tasted the very top and know what to aspire to and achieve....I would sooner take a manager with that pedigree behind them rather than a manager whose pedigree was non-league followed by the comfort of signing those none league players....

 

Just out of interest what makes you think this?

 

I have seen him say nothing but how happy he is with his centre backs and he couldn't wait for Smith to replace Freeman.

 

The fact that he hardly ever bothers with defenders on the bench makes me think that he is either very happy with his defence or has no other good defenders in the squad. If it is the latter, why on earth would he make right mid his next priority and why would the investors trust him with more money?

[sausagemeat]

But Russell isn't an improvement right? Just so I can begin to understand which part of my original post you disagreed with.

Read back and you wilunderstand hopefully - your latest point about Russell ? is he great then as you suggested ? jury is out for me - comparing him to Sammon to justify NC squad improvement is a joke !! NC bought the donkey Sammon anyway - How much was Sammon ? £ 1.2 million ish ? how much was Russell £ 500k ish ? not really sure what your point of defence is for NC or his signings to be honest

[DcfcNews12]

fans are focussing on the manager because he is IN ON IT. Either he's incompetent or he's LYING. Are you totally ignoring the constant quotes from Clough about being happy with his squad? What has the nationality of the owners got to do with anything. Is your employer British?

 

 

Sorry DCFCNews, the list you compiled is absolutely irrelevant when trying to explain eleven men versus eleven men, and the inability to tactically outdo and opposing manager or hold on to a lead. 

 

 

Nonsense mate, you don't know for one minute whether anyone would do any better, worse or exactly the same.

 

Derby county is a football club not just 11 players.You should look at them from the top to the bottom.Its not irrelevant when your judging someones decisions when they didnt have much choice.

[Mostyn6]

if you don't think a competent and organised coaching staff could get this lot playing as a team, and you'd rather keep Brayford, who suddenly is as highly regarded as Charlie George by some since leaving, than have 6 goals Chris Martin or 3(ish) goals Johnny Russell, then you're nuts.

 

One thing I'm optimistic about is that IF Clough finally cracks it, or IF he's bombed out and replaced, then there is ability in this team to beat ANY team at this level, and that's what we should be trying to do.

[BondJovi]

if you don't think a competent and organised coaching staff could get this lot playing as a team, and you'd rather keep Brayford, who suddenly is as highly regarded as Charlie George by some since leaving, than have 6 goals Chris Martin or 3(ish) goals Johnny Russell, then you're nuts.

 

One thing I'm optimistic about is that IF Clough finally cracks it, or IF he's bombed out and replaced, then there is ability in this team to beat ANY team at this level, and that's what we should be trying to do.

 

I am certain agreeing with you so often is ruining my reputation (I know...what reputation)

[G STAR RAM]

Read back and you wilunderstand hopefully - your latest point about Russell ? is he great then as you suggested ? jury is out for me - comparing him to Sammon to justify NC squad improvement is a joke !! NC bought the donkey Sammon anyway - How much was Sammon ? £ 1.2 million ish ? how much was Russell £ 500k ish ? not really sure what your point of defence is for NC or his signings to be honest

 

No you read back. My point was that buying Grant and Russell and loaning Smith was improving the squad, in response to the poster that said we had not invested to improve the squad.

 

I assume at the time you said signing both Grant and Russell was going to weaken the squad?

[Mostyn6]

Derby county is a football club not just 11 players.You should look at them from the top to the bottom.Its not irrelevant when your judging someones decisions when they didnt have much choice.

 

again, as right as you think you are, the tea lady and physio don't need to master the art of ball control, the under 11s don't need to be competitive against the Leicester striker tonight etc etc so again, irrelevant.

 

If we were relegated, do you think the good things, like an u16 who is good, mean anything?