Fed up of Clough

[Leicester Ram]

I believe that the sands of time are running out for clough and the majority of objective rams fans will come to look back on him as one of the worst managers the club have ever had.

 

If you actually think he is one of the worst managers we've ever had then you were born yesterday. 

 

And that's coming from the youngest member on the forum.

[notts_ram]

If you actually think he is one of the worst managers we've ever had then you were born yesterday. 

 

And that's coming from the youngest member on the forum.

Even I agree we have had far worse managers than Clough in the last decade. Still have zero confidence in him getting us into the Top 6 never mind Premiership promised land for avoidance of any doubt mind

[smiffy]

Not counting caretakers Clough is still better  than all these

 

Paul Jewell  
Terry Westley 
Phil Brown 
John Gregory 
Billy McEwan  
Colin Todd 
Roy McFarland 
Peter Taylor 
Johnny Newman 
Tommy Docherty
Colin Addison 
Colin Murphy
 

[McMuffin]

I like your posts a lot. Like just a few others on here you only appear when Derby lose so that saves a lot of time reading through threads. You never usually write more than a line or two and never ever have anything constructive for me to read so I don't have to try and see things from your view point. You are correct, the season hasn't finished yet, there is almost 83% left.

Simple.

I can't stand Nigel Clough so every opportunity I get I hammer him.

I'll cheer up no end when he's gone!

I'll post when we win and everything!

[CumbrianRam]

If we don't get rid of him soon the name "Clough" will be remembered for all the wrong reasons at this club.

I don;t suffer from nepotism so understand there is a bit of difference between the respective achievements of Nigel and Brian Clough. Don't really care that NC is the son of Brian, shouldn't get special treatment beacuse of that, enough of that in politics and the corporate world.

[bcnram]

Not counting caretakers Clough is still better  than all these

 

Paul Jewell  

Terry Westley 

Phil Brown 

John Gregory 

Billy McEwan  

Colin Todd 

Roy McFarland 

Peter Taylor 

Johnny Newman 

Tommy Docherty

Colin Addison 

Colin Murphy

 

Wow I had forgotten about some of those. Docherty and Jewell stand out for me as being the worst of a pretty mediocre bunch.

[smiffy]

But not better than Tim Ward , Arthur Cox ,Dave Mackay, Jim Smith,Brian Clough , Harry Storer etc. PS I take issue with Peter Taylor as well.

Why.

[bcnram]

But not better than Tim Ward , Arthur Cox ,Dave Mackay, Jim Smith,Brian Clough , Harry Storer etc. PS I take issue with Peter Taylor and Roy Mac as well . Plus Jewell and Tommy Docherty had amazing records with other clubs as did John Gregory and Colin Todd and what did Terry Westley do wrong. This list is not as bad as you think

Storer got us out of Division 3N but achieved nothing other than that, Ward achieved nothing (apart from signing Hector). I can't think why you take issue with Roy Mac and Peter Taylor and does it matter what the others did at other clubs? I think no matter what side of the fence you stand, it puts to bed some of the ridiculous statements regarding Clough Jnr.

[Mafiabob]

My feeling and feel free to rip my opinion apart, is that Mr Clough has taken us as far as we could go.

I think it's on a different thread discussing why can't we do a Swansea and a few opinions explaining why we could and couldn't.

I think we are mirroring Swanseas earlier days of recovering from being in bottom divison and slowly rising to where they are now.

Yes we are starting our slow recovery from that pants season in the premier at a higher level than Swansea had. But there recovery was in different stages and I think we are at the stage to change managers to carry on improving.

The main reason I choose Swansea is that they changed the managers at the right time, even if there hands were forced. This is where I compare Nigel Clough to Kenny Jackett.

Kenny was a very good lower league manager and had and still has plenty of ability to get lower league teams out of a division. Once he got them as far as he could, the baton was passed to Martinez, Swansea went to the next level, rest as they say is history. I just feel the time is now to change! Feel free to rip me apart it's just my usual musings!

[smiffy]

What ridiculous statements. Ward signed Durban who was one of Brian's main men and what about Ron Webster and Jeff Bourne

Ron was one of Harry`s boys mate, not Tim`s

[bcnram]

What ridiculous statements. Ward signed Durban who was one of Brian's main men and what about Ron Webster and Jeff Bourne

That is true, he did sign Durban. Ron Webster joined as a youngster. Jeff Bourne was signed by Clough Senior wasn't he? Now then, tell me what was a ridiculous statement?

[bcnram]

We are at crossed purposes here I was referring to your comment about ridiculous statements about Clough junior. Nigel isn't going anywhere is he and he needs time for the academy to come to fruition for the 1st team. PS Obviously if he has an horrendous season then things might change

Should 'ave put me specs on!!! Bloody eyes are the first thing to go!!

[Gary Teale]

Terry Westley did ok in his few games he helped us stay up which was what he was supposed to do.

[RodleyRam]

Look at the percentage of wins per games played.

Where are the results of the this fantastic academy ? Will Hughes, who may go to be an England international or he may not, it certainly won't be for us, Anyone else ? Anyone knocking our door down to buy our young stars, no thought not.

We are no further up the league in terms of position than when he took charge. I have seen clough snr's Derby, Mackay's Derby, A. Cox's Derby, Jim Smith's Derby and George Burley's Derby, all of whom played better football.

Have you forgotten 5-2 at Florist, losing to ssausagehorpe at home, losing to Shrewsbury in the cup, losing to Crawley Town in the FA cup and it was'nt even reported as a shock because they had spent more than us. This manager has no more ambition than to be home in time for tea otherwise he would have walked away long since due to the lack of funds.

Finally, despite repeated false statements from posters to this board the debt has not come down during Clough's managerial tenure , it could even be higher now than when he took over.

You are right, football is all about opinions and mine for what its worth is that Nigel Clough will not be remembered positively once the dust settles.

We could labour these points till the cows come home but i think most people who defend Clough against a lot of over the top criticism look to find logic in the strategy and try to seek to highlight positives rather than constantly looking for negatives.

Point here being it's pretty easy to say where you think things are going wrong, however, i hear very few suggestions if how to put things right. This leads me to the assessment that there isn't actually anything drasticly wrong and therefore to try and accept it for what it is...

I see us as being not far off from getting it right, a few tweaks here and there and a bit of good fortune and we will be top 10 looking up for the second season in a row. Can you remember what it was like in Clough's first year? We certainly weren't top 10 looking up we've come a long way! Credit where credit is due, he has been a major part in that progress.

Clough, not unlike any manager we've had has good points and bad points. He's by no means infallable and some of his actions leave me bewildered but i could say that about most of the managers i've experienced in my 20 years as a ram.

You can hand pick anything you like to prove a point. I could point towards the steady improvement in league position, the exciting crop of young players coming through - Hughes being the tip of the iceberg as i see it, 11 straight wins against Leeds, the general improvement in quality of play (some of the goals we've scored this year have been genuinely top class, had they been scored by barcelona you'd be seeing the held up as a model of how to play the beautiful game) etc etc.

The point i was quoting though was saying that Clough would go down as one of the worst managers we've had, which i dont think is a fair reflection. What has he done that is so drastically awful to be labelled as such?

Answer? Not much. Has he dazzled us with amazing successes on the pitch? Not really. Is that fact exclusively down to him? I dont think so, there's a lot of other factors at play. Is anyone claiming he's god's gift to football management? No. Has he made mistakes? Yes. Are we overall in a better state now than when he joined? Yes. Therefore i fail to see how he can be put in the 'worst managers' we've ever had bracket.

For me it's just a bit if sensationalism and hyperbole at this moment in time because we've had a poor start to the season at home and just gone out of the cup. I can understand it to an extent. Sammon hasn't been playing so we have to blame someone. I can also understand the sense of frustration with the way things are at the club, i feel we could make a challenge this year but barring some excellent performances on the road it just hasn't clicked yet. That is frustrating, it's undeniable.

Is Clough to blame for that? Not exclusively in my eyes but he has to take responsibility for finding a solution to improve things.

Does he deserve to be labeled as one of our worst ever managers? No, get a grip and against that kind if unwarrented label i will always stick up for him.

[uttoxram75]

If Nige left the club tomorrow i believe he will go down in history as one of our best ever managers. He has bucked the trend of modern managers and built for the future, not for himself because he does not know if he'll be part of that future but for the long term good of DCFC.

It takes immense courage to try and build solid foundations that others will probably benefit from rather than short term personal success that leaves the club as bad as when he joined.

 

Nige will be remembered as fondly as his old man at Derby one day.

 

However, i'm sure the owners will regret that they didn't go for Tony Pulis who would have got us promoted and kept us in the Prem. They still wunt have made a profit as the Stoke chairman has had to pump millions and millions into the club but  at least they'd have the kudos of owning a Premiership club.

 

.

[Mostyn6]

For what it's worth Clough won't be remembered as a bad manager. But I doubt he will be remembered with to much fondness either. You won't be able to point to any successes or failures. You won't remember him for Will Hughes simply cos you don't remember whichever manager gave Huddlestone his debut with any particular credit for it! Clough will be remembered as the bloke who babysat. Nothing has got worse under him, apart from the feeling of optimism, not too much has got better under him.

People mention the academy, but I think that bubble will soon burst when people realise it's a pink elephant! Where's the next player? Why isn't he playing when we're short on bodies? After all, this is how Hughes and Hendrick were chucked in...

[sage]

Bennett is the next player.

[Jayram]

If Nige left the club tomorrow i believe he will go down in history as one of our best ever managers. He has bucked the trend of modern managers and built for the future, not for himself because he does not know if he'll be part of that future but for the long term good of DCFC.

It takes immense courage to try and build solid foundations that others will probably benefit from rather than short term personal success that leaves the club as bad as when he joined.

 

Nige will be remembered as fondly as his old man at Derby one day.

 

However, i'm sure the owners will regret that they didn't go for Tony Pulis who would have got us promoted and kept us in the Prem. They still wunt have made a profit as the Stoke chairman has had to pump millions and millions into the club but  at least they'd have the kudos of owning a Premiership club.

 

.

Sorry Uttox got to disagree with you there. There is no way Nigel would be in any 'best ever Rams manager' category, no more than he deserves to be in the 'worst ever' positions. He is an average manager who has gone as far as he can and needs to be replaced by someone who can take us to the next level. He simply doesn't have what it takes to get any further in my view. He doesn't deserve some of the vitriol he gets though. That said I can't see him going anywhere for now.

[uttoxram75]

Sorry Uttox got to disagree with you there. There is no way Nigel would be in any 'best ever Rams manager' category, no more than he deserves to be in the 'worst ever' positions. He is an average manager who has gone as far as he can and needs to be replaced by someone who can take us to the next level. He simply doesn't have what it takes to get any further in my view. He doesn't deserve some of the vitriol he gets though. That said I can't see him going anywhere for now.

 

Haha Jayram, my post was a bit tongue in cheek, the doom and gloom was getting to me a bit.

 

My belief is that we could well have a good season. I said a week or two ago that Nige actually has options up front and midfield this time and that this will be a true test for him. He has got Russell, Martin, Sammon and Bennett as  competition to freshen it up a bit without significantly weakening the team. The injuries in the middle have constricted his choice there a little bit but still enough (just)!

If we do have a good season the whole outlook of the club will change and Clough's rep will soar.

 

I understand many people have written the season off already - thats fine, that happens at every club. You only have to glance at any random club's forum to see fans love to moan.

 

We have started averagely (in terms of results) yet have played some good stuff as well. We have had worse starts and ended up in a good place.....

[Mostyn6]

] went to U21 game yesterday against Sheff Wed and liked what I saw. Team was Morch ,Hendrie,Hoganson,Dawkins,Gjokaj,Hanson,Dales,Wassell,Thomas ,Vernam,Lowe......subs Berry ,Sharpe,Hayes ,Wixted and trialist Giverin. All under 20 and won 3-1

Lelan 18 years old CB out on loan at Gateshead and doing well.

Then you have the youth players in the Academy.

Bennett and Jacobs didn't play.

Gjokaj looks loads stronger now as does Hanson wouldn't let us down in 1st 11. Lowe is a fantastic prospect as Is Lelan and Thomas and Dawkins etc etc.

I would say our prospects are good IMO in the future

 

how many are good enough to play double-figures in the first team