How things (don't) change

[RodleyRam]

I don't think it's wrong to give someone a chance. Nigel deserved to be judged after doing the job for a period of time, even if his appointment was purely a calculated tug on the romantic heart-strings due to his surname by the board to disguise their change in philosophy.

Serious question. Did they interview anyone else for the post? Who else was in the frame at the time?

[Mostyn6]

Serious question. Did they interview anyone else for the post? Who else was in the frame at the time?

 

I genuinely do not know.

 

I do know that Paul Ince was offered the job after Billy left, only for Paul Jewell to change his mind and Adam Pearson to retract the job offer to Ince.

 

Even though the prospect of Ince sent a shudder down my spine at the time, in hindsight, I would think Nigel Clough would've inherited a much better situation (squad/remaining budget etc) than he did after Jewell cracked.

[Stive Pesley]

I've given Clough credit for seeing something in Chris Martin that 90% of people on this forum could not see. I've given Clough credit for signing Johnny Russell and was full of enthusiasm about that. I've given Clough credit for ridding the team (although not some fans) of the self-pity from the aftermath of the Premier League debacle and the subsequent fall into the abyss as Jewell had scattergun approach to recruiting players! I've credited Clough for his loyalty to certain people and his honesty (whether this is a good thing in football is another debate). I've credited Clough for assembling a team that actually contains 'saleable assets' after he inherited a team of people that nobody wanted. I've credited Clough with recruiting the type of players that you would like your children to look upto, and not a bunch of misbehaving, badly behaved disgraces.

 

 

But…apart from all that what have the Romans/Nigel Clough ever done for us?

[sage]

I think you're trying goad a response out of me, so here goes..

 

a, Prior to coming here, only Metgod (at Portsmouth) can be described as a experienced coaching in the football league.Hence the rest were employed as amateurs.

 

b, My knowledge is simply based on 30 years of watching and 20 years of playing, and a couple of coaching courses/qualifications. If I say I could do a better job than Clough, it's mischief-making and tongue in cheek and you know it! BUT, there are decisions I would've made differently that I'm convinced would've had a more positive outcome. As for giving Clough credit, for what exactly? He didn't make a conscious decision to cost-cut and be responsible, he was following orders and any manager would've had to do that. Improvement in play?? Really? Three years ago, as stated in the article I wrote then, we were playing brilliantly. Can the manager keep it going? That's when the credit will be given, when Clough proves he's not a bottler!

 

c, I think you're picking and choosing what to remember of my posts. I was buzzing after Brentford and had NEVER left Pride Park in a better mood than I did that night. It was awesome and I was gobsmacked at the sheer domination and master-class of football, and I said as much on the forum for the following few days (until Burnley!!!). I've given Clough credit for seeing something in Chris Martin that 90% of people on this forum could not see. I've given Clough credit for signing Johnny Russell and was full of enthusiasm about that. I've given Clough credit for ridding the team (although not some fans) of the self-pity from the aftermath of the Premier League debacle and the subsequent fall into the abyss as Jewell had scattergun approach to recruiting players! I've credited Clough for his loyalty to certain people and his honesty (whether this is a good thing in football is another debate). I've credited Clough for assembling a team that actually contains 'saleable assets' after he inherited a team of people that nobody wanted. I've credited Clough with recruiting the type of players that you would like your children to look upto, and not a bunch of misbehaving, badly behaved disgraces. BUt you carry on throwing mud at me, I can handle it

 

d, Yes I have been saying for four years that Clough would take us no further. Amidst all the responses of "next season", "give him ten games", "I'll judge when he's built his own team", "I'll give him until Christmas", "next season is when I'll judge him" and most popularly "he hasn't spent as much money as <insert another manager/club name here>!" But when these timescales are up, the goalposts are moved by the Clough-apologists. I make no apologies for not believing in Clough and his CURRENT coaching set-up. I've seen enough over the years to justify it in abundance. I refuse to hide behind the finances excuse, because of how easily we've been turned over by lower league teams over the years!

 

e, You comment about even when we go up I'll complain...er... when will that be? Won't be this season or next with Clough, I'll bet you. But if we do, I'd be the first to get the plate of humble pie out of the fridge-freezer! I almost got it out after 20 mins against Sheff Weds last season, when I thought the tide has finally turned,but we know what happened there don't we!

 

f. your 'quote' although not made by me, did make me chuckle. The pitch is in 6ths, not 12ths! lol. But I take that as your personal dig at me and not my opinions.

 

g, As for you liking me, that's down to you. I personally have a lot more respect for people who are honest and open about their beliefs instead of pretending their opinion is something else to be popular. I've not got a conceited bone in my body. I type what I type with a smile on my face. I treat this no differently to if I was sitting in a pub chatting with mates and arguing over who was the best or worst player in the team or whatever. Don't take it so seriously.

So you've been saying for 4 years that Clough can't take us any further. He's only been here for 4 years. So you have been saying he can't take us any further since the day he started. Nice to see you give people a chance.

 

You have also credited him with many things. All of those things took place in the last 4 years, when according to you he couldn't take us any further.

 

If you want to be taken seriously as someone with a lot of football knowledge, then this post rivals Labour's 1983 election manifesto as the longest suicide note in history.

 

Watching football for 30 years and writing long posts doesn't make you a football expert, it just mean you write more **** and for a longer time.    

[Asanovic]

From what I've seen of the Championship this season I think we're the best passing team in the league.

 

[Mostyn6]

So you've been saying for 4 years that Clough can't take us any further. He's only been here for 4 years. So you have been saying he can't take us any further since the day he started. Nice to see you give people a chance.

 

You have also credited him with many things. All of those things took place in the last 4 years, when according to you he couldn't take us any further.

 

If you want to be taken seriously as someone with a lot of football knowledge, then this post rivals Labour's 1983 election manifesto as the longest suicide note in history.

 

Watching football for 30 years and writing long posts doesn't make you a football expert, it just mean you write more **** and for a longer time.    

 

 

for starters, I've never once proclaimed to be an expert, show me where I have or apologise for bullshitting.

 

Secondly, Clough has been here nearer five years than four. As I have said somewhere else in this thread, I came to the conclusion after about 15 games.

[sage]

for starters, I've never once proclaimed to be an expert, show me where I have or apologise for bullshitting.

 

Secondly, Clough has been here nearer five years than four. As I have said somewhere else in this thread, I came to the conclusion after about 15 games.

Where did I specifically say you claimed to be an expert. Show me where or apologise for bullshitting.

[Mafiabob]

Bloody hell, I've been reading this thread most of the day. Thought it might of been a decent thread to read and get opinions but all it has come down too is nitpicking at each others posts! Agree to disagree and remember we are all bloody DERBY!

[Ambitious]

From what I've seen of the Championship this season I think we're the best passing team in the league.

 

 

Easily, and I'm not joking.

 

Passing is however, only one of many attributes it takes to be a top team. 

[Alph]

I've seen the Leeds games.

Paul Green looks like he should be playing two or three leagues above the rest of the players around him.

Either he's got a trillion times better in the last couple of years or Leeds are horrible to watch. And Sheff Wednesday. And QPR.

Honestly I watched QPR v Leeds and apart from QPR's defending the quality was painful!

Thought we were ugly v Millwall for pretty large periods though. The best moves were the ones that lead to chances. The Forsyth hoofball in between would have made Leeds fans orgasm

[WilkoRam]

So you've been saying for 4 years that Clough can't take us any further. He's only been here for 4 years. So you have been saying he can't take us any further since the day he started. Nice to see you give people a chance.

You have also credited him with many things. All of those things took place in the last 4 years, when according to you he couldn't take us any further.

If you want to be taken seriously as someone with a lot of football knowledge, then this post rivals Labour's 1983 election manifesto as the longest suicide note in history.

Watching football for 30 years and writing long posts doesn't make you a football expert, it just mean you write more **** and for a longer time.

Also I believe the point again would be that he may have done some wonderful things in those 4/5 years (I personally have nothing but praise for Nigel for the youth setup) but that doesn't mean he's taking us further. The receptiveness of each season (play well, drop form, play poorly, struggle, survive, finish around mid table) would suggest we haven't progressed much and a number of people on here have commented that this is a make or break season, suggesting that others may feel this way too and they actually want to see some progression this season.

Finally can both of you actually act in a way that is more suitable to your (assumed) ages and either contribute to a topic with something constructive or keep quiet? This pettiness that has been a constant throughout the thread is annoying. If you want to take shots at each other and behave like kids then start a new thread and keep it it there.

[sage]

Finally can both of you actually act in a way that is more suitable to your (assumed) ages and either contribute to a topic with something constructive or keep quiet? This pettiness that has been a constant throughout the thread is annoying. If you want to take shots at each other and behave like kids then start a new thread and keep it it there.

He started it.

[WilkoRam]

He started it.

And I'm finishing it, before it ends in tears.

[ronnieronalde]

i don't see why it's behaving like kids? I see adults exchanging views without insulting each other. Just because they're miles away from agreeing, it's not getting nasty at all.

 

Why can't you tell someone you think they're a plonker? Why can't he call me a plonker if he wants?

 

There was an interesting graph on one of the links flying around which showed league position over a period of the last 4 and half years.

 

It's not just league finishing position that indicates we're progressing (apart from one season) it's lowest league position over the season as well.

 

I'll try to dig it out. It shows something like year one our lowest position was bottom 3 for one game, the next season we didn't dip below 20th, the season after that never below 18th, season after that 14th, last season we never dropped out of the top half.

 

I might be a couple of places out on those so I'll try to check them.

 

I don't see how anyone can argue that we're progressing, they can argue all day long that it's too slow, but to argue progress shows a lack of fairness.

 

Our good play has lasted pretty much a season and a half by the way, how long do we have to try to play total football before it's accepted that that's our style?

 

First hat trick for 17 years, best away start for 102 years,  biggest away win since 1976?? first double double over leeds, first double over the red dogs, young vibrant attacking team which has a sprinkling of home grown in it, all of them giving everything they've got for the club.

 

I honestly believe some of you are missing some very decent times here. This manager who hasn't done enough, has given many Derby fans some of their best runs and biggest wins in history.

 

What has he done that's so bad you're not convinced?

 

Is it just cos we're not getting there fast enough?

[Mostyn6]

it's been mentioned in here that I quite openly said that I have a good feeling about this season.

 

This article was about me having the same thought of "GO FOR IT" that I had 3 years ago, yet people have turned it around to talk about my overall feelings towards the club. I stand by the fact that I'd love for Nigel to find the magic formula, and yes every team has blips, but the Burnley, Leicester and Blackburn games still highlight that 'something' is lacking/missing. 

 

This 'something' is what we are actually disagreeing on. I think it's the coaching team as a whole, and not just the manager that needs re-shaping, but whilst NC is unwilling to do anything about that, then he's culpable in my eyes.

 

I actually think Saturday's game against Reading is massive for us. I am desperate to make a comedy climbdown, and come on here with my tail between my legs for lashings and lashings of gravy on my humble pie.

 

I believe more than anything, that if we throw caution to the wind and go stupidly attacking, almost irresponsibly, we'd be three goals up before the opposition knew anything about it, and let's face it, not many teams at this level have the individual quality to turn around a three goal deficit, no matter how reckless the opposition are playing in defence. 

[WilkoRam]

Personally it's because every season he starts to get me believing. To thinking we have clicked and this will be the season that we entertain for the season. I've not expected us to have been promoted by now, not at all, just that I can go to a game and be entertained the majority of the time. What I get annoyed, frustrated and disillusioned about is that the good football never lasts. I can't agree we have played good football consistently for a year and a half, unless our ideas of good football are different. I went to too many games last season where we were devoid of ideas up front where floated balls down the channels were hit and came to nothing. We had nothing, we had no ideas, no movement, just hopeful knocks up front. It didn't start out that way but it turned into that.

Last season we went 8 games without a win playing like that

The season before we lost 5 on the trot and later went 7 games without a win

The season before we went 6 games without a win and then later in the season lost 5 on the bounce and then went 8 games without a win and then finished the season without a win in 5 losing the last 4 games. And they coincided we a noticeable change in the way we played.

Last season we started our first 8 league games with 3 wins, 2 draws and 3 loses. This season so far - 3 wins, 2 draws and 2 loses. Not much difference there. I hope a difference comes later in the season where we don't have a barren spell and play lofted balls down the channels to nobody. But why should I be convinced that it won't happen again? What has he done to convince you this season will be different?

Is this the graph you referred to?

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[AndyB]

Are Mostyn and Bris the same bloke?

[sage]

Where did I specifically say you claimed to be an expert. Show me where or apologise for bullshitting.

Still waiting...

for starters, I've never once proclaimed to be an expert, show me where I have or apologise for bullshitting.

 

Secondly, Clough has been here nearer five years than four. As I have said somewhere else in this thread, I came to the conclusion after about 15 games.

[ramesses]

I started reading this thread in hope and thought I could see the point of it. A few pages later and some petty squabbling and it's been totally lost for me.

 

 

You poor thing. How awful for you.

 

I thought the point was as follows, and sorry if I'm getting it wrong.

We are playing well and we play with a certain attacking style and in the middle of the park we are passing it. This is nothing new. We have done it before under Nigel. I will always remember the Hulse, Commons, Bueno, Cwyka line up as it was the time I thought we were going somewhere. We looked positive, it was good to watch. What happened then though was not so good. We had a wobble, a dip in form and notably we went from this nice, attacking, entertaining style to a safety first, grinding out results style that, in my opinion, put us in more trouble. I don't like the "grinding out results" attitude I find it an old football cliché that is pretty much nonsense. So it's nice how we've started but I hope it continues and we don't panic with the first bit of poor form and revert to the safety first approach. It could happen and it would be history repeating itself. I don't want this to be another false dawn.

 

Yes, you’re getting it wrong.

 

Let’s use your example. The Commons, Bueno, and Cwyka set up was good but depended far too much on Commons. Commons was on fire at the time and both Bueno and Cwyka were good at exploiting the space that Commons created. However, when Commons, the genuine talent, eventually went off the boil the other two looked, and were, lightweight, ineffectual and easily dealt with by championship defenders. Neither of them could do what Commons could do. Not long after that, Commons left for Celtic anyway.

 

It’s was the quality of players available that was important here - not the attitude or tactics of the manager.

[uttoxram75]

Mostyn, in one of your posts above you said 90% of posters on here didn't rate Chris Martin last season. Really?, 90% of 200 odd (very odd most of 'em  ) regular posters? Without checking I would guess about 10 posted an opinion either way!

 

Do you mean 90% of the few who posted an opinion? 

 

I honestly don't know how many fans rated Chris Martin, i really haven't a clue, yet you state 90% on here didn't rate him, suggesting you was one of the few who did!

 

Its stuff like this that makes some think you believe your opinions are more valid than theirs. 

 

Your opinion on DCFC is as valid as mine, B4's, sage, wilko's, or any other member. No more, no less.

 

Try posting your opinion without telling the rest of us we are wrong.