EastKentRam Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Even Albert agrees with us now. You have just posted stats of a bunch of ****/average/good Championship players who have nearly all got either a better goal scoring or assist record than Sammon last season. I agree the assist stats are largely meaningless though. It's not the stats that makes me know Sammon is crap, it's watching his general play and lack of ability. People bringing up Murray and Howard saying how slowly they started is such a nonsensical argument, cos both of them are far better footballers than Sammon, I.e, they're good in the air, hold the ball up well and have got decent control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 I'm certain he'll get a better return next year, 12 goals would be my prediction. You have to remember as well though that it's not like he had loads of chances. I remember someone on here saying he only had 50 shots over the course of the season (just over 1 a game!) which is terrible for a striker. As long as it's drilled into him that he needs to shoot more, I see no reason why his goal tally shouldn't improve either. Sorry Scott, but in the whole 30 years I've watched football, every expert and his dog have been adamant that these skills are natural and instinctive. You shouldn't need to tell a striker when he should be shooting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 I would agree that them stats taken as a standalone view are p**s poor. However, if a ball is played long to Sammon, he controls (unlikely I know) and lays it off to a winger who crosses for someone else to score, then Sammon gets absolutely no credit for his part in that goal. I would also argue that it can be hard at times to assist when you have no team mate within 20 or 30 yards of you, as was often the case during away games or late on in home games when Nigel decided he wanted to shut up shop. It sounds a nice move, but how often as it ever happened? I doubt it has ever happened, simply because a, nobody is level with Sammon but on the wing to receive a lay-off and b, nobody is level or beyond Sammon to be on the end of the imaginary winger's cross. BTW, this comment is no dig at Sammon, more a dig at tactics etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Even Albert agrees with us now.I do not recall agreeing with anyone here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFCfranco Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 does anyone know if they're is any add on agreements with sammon. like with have with crewe over brayfords transfer. could make a difference on whether goes or not if 20% of the transfer fee, for example, goes to wigan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Here they are as lists:Minutes per goal1 Davies 2222 Porter 2233 Theo 2244 Hulse 2315 Howard 2406 Lupoli 2537 Commons 2728 Ward 2789 Bueno 37810 Tyson 40911 Ellington 44312 Sammon 44613 Barnes 49114 Cywka 53615 Tito 61816 Varney 887Minutes per assist1 Bueno 2702 Commons 2853 Ward 2924 Cywka 3355 Lupoli 4436 Howard 4817 Sammon 5948 Davies 6349 Ellington 66510 Barnes 88411 Varney 88712 Tito 123513 Hulse 129214 Theo 149415 Tyson 163616 Porter N/AMinutes per score contribution1 Commons 1392 Ward 1433 Bueno 1584 Howard 1605 Lupoli 1616 Davies 1647 Theo 1958 Hulse 1969 Cywka 20610 Porter 22311 Sammon 25512 Ellington 26613 Barnes 31614 Tyson 32715 Tito 41216 Varney 444Not really mentioned above, but I could draw something up for, would be appearance per day at the club, which would be an interesting comparison. Whilst Davies for example would struggle to make half a season, let alone a full one, Sammon appeared in pretty much every game last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 yes, cos impressions of ornaments are worth more than scoring goals! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 The Sun just trolled you all Trollololol Indeed, we've now got another incredibly tedious Sammon thread, yay! For what it's worth, when looking at goal tallies I'd consider including cup goals if they were against an oppoition in the same league or in a higher league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott129 Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Sorry Scott, but in the whole 30 years I've watched football, every expert and his dog have been adamant that these skills are natural and instinctive. You shouldn't need to tell a striker when he should be shooting! I think it's more of a confidence issue as opposed to an instinct issue. He's been guilty of missing some right sitters and I'd be lying if I said that wouldn't affect my decision-making when shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewbacca Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 God Commons was awesome when fit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Teale Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Even Albert agrees with us now. You have just posted stats of a bunch of ****/average/good Championship players who have nearly all got either a better goal scoring or assist record than Sammon last season. I agree the assist stats are largely meaningless though. It's not the stats that makes me know Sammon is crap, it's watching his general play and lack of ability. People bringing up Murray and Howard saying how slowly they started is such a nonsensical argument, cos both of them are far better footballers than Sammon, I.e, they're good in the air, hold the ball up well and have got decent control. I couldn't agree more, we can all see through our own eyes that salmon works hard, but has poor control, doesn't win much in the air, can't pass and makes the wrong decision at times. He isn't terrible but he isn't great either he is a work horse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMuffin Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 I couldn't agree more, we can all see through our own eyes that salmon works hard, but has poor control, doesn't win much in the air, can't pass and makes the wrong decision at times. He isn't terrible but he isn't great either he is a work horse.It would seem quite a few love a work horse. I do but they have to be good and bring something in terms of ability. As the stats show not only does Sammon not score anywhere near enough he also has a very low assist rate for a forward. Not just Stats though we can all see how much he gives the ball away and lose possession due to his clumsy and heavy touch. Workhorse yes, footballer no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 It would seem quite a few love a work horse.I do but they have to be good and bring something in terms of ability.As the stats show not only does Sammon not score anywhere near enough he also has a very low assist rate for a forward.Not just Stats though we can all see how much he gives the ball away and lose possession due to his clumsy and heavy touch.Workhorse yes, footballer no.As the stats show not only does Sammon not score anywhere near enough he also has a very low assist rate for a forward.This statement is pretty much as wrong as you're going to get on here tonight. The damn list is posted right above as well. Of the 16 attacking players listed Sammon came 7th, ahead of the likes of Barnes and Steve Davies for assists. Assists wise last season he was absolutely fine. In fact, taking out the wingers and attacking mids (Commons, Cywka, Ward, Bueno and arguably Lupoli) you're only really left with Howard above him as far as strikers go. On a divisional level there is absolutely nothing wrong with the rate he's getting assists at from what I can find either, so I have absolutely no idea where you pulled that from.It's also odd to see a huge reliance on stats in this case, particularly as he's not the kind of player who's going to score huge numbers of goals. He may well be capable of 12-15 goals next season, but I wouldn't see him as an out and out goal scorer. If anything from last season the stats showed that we were a far more threatening attacking force with him in the side, and the sudden rise in the strike rate across the park with him in the side is striking the say the least. Sometimes you do need a workhorse, and Sammon certainly offers that, and he can certainly still score and set up the odd goal too.Another factor that a lot seem to like ignoring is that one thing he showed last season that we have been in desperate need of for years is that he could actually play a full season. Do not underestimate the value of this if he can maintain it as last season. When we've had the likes of Porter, Commons and Davies in recent times, it's refreshing to have a striker who not only will work his socks off and help create space for others, but also a striker who will actually play a full season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMuffin Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 This statement is pretty much as wrong as you're going to get on here tonight. The damn list is posted right above as well. Of the 16 attacking players listed Sammon came 7th, ahead of the likes of Barnes and Steve Davies for assists. Assists wise last season he was absolutely fine. In fact, taking out the wingers and attacking mids (Commons, Cywka, Ward, Bueno and arguably Lupoli) you're only really left with Howard above him as far as strikers go. On a divisional level there is absolutely nothing wrong with the rate he's getting assists at from what I can find either, so I have absolutely no idea where you pulled that from. It's also odd to see a huge reliance on stats in this case, particularly as he's not the kind of player who's going to score huge numbers of goals. He may well be capable of 12-15 goals next season, but I wouldn't see him as an out and out goal scorer. If anything from last season the stats showed that we were a far more threatening attacking force with him in the side, and the sudden rise in the strike rate across the park with him in the side is striking the say the least. Sometimes you do need a workhorse, and Sammon certainly offers that, and he can certainly still score and set up the odd goal too. Another factor that a lot seem to like ignoring is that one thing he showed last season that we have been in desperate need of for years is that he could actually play a full season. Do not underestimate the value of this if he can maintain it as last season. When we've had the likes of Porter, Commons and Davies in recent times, it's refreshing to have a striker who not only will work his socks off and help create space for others, but also a striker who will actually play a full season. You are right that he is 7 on that list. But be honest bar a small minority that's a pretty ***** list. And 1 assist every 8 games along with 1 goal every 5 is shocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eranio20 Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 In 77 (league) appearances since the 2010/11 season, Sammon's managed 9 goals. He failed to score in 27 appearances for Wigan. Since joining from Wigan; Sammon's missed 2 spot kicks, failed to score in all his international appearances and scored 9 in 47 appearances for Derby. How do people come to the conclusion he will bag 15+ next season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3232 Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 He's a good player for what Clough wants but we obviously overpaid in getting him... If we can make a profit we should take it and start again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nijul_cluff Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 In 77 (league) appearances since the 2010/11 season, Sammon's managed 9 goals. He failed to score in 27 appearances for Wigan. Since joining from Wigan; Sammon's missed 2 spot kicks, failed to score in all his international appearances and scored 9 in 47 appearances for Derby. How do people come to the conclusion he will bag 15+ next season? Ward also missed two spot kicks, at least sammon hit his with a bit more power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notts_ram Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Need to check my calendar, surely there cant be two April Fools Day in one year? £2 million for that chunk of garbage, laughed I need to change my incontinence pants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 He's a good player for what Clough wants but we obviously overpaid in getting him... If we can make a profit we should take it and start again I've had a long day so forgive me for asking. Is it possible that we overpaid for someone yet still we make a profit on him? I'm struggling to work it out. Wouldn't it be foresight and good judgement to buy someone for 1.2m only to have someone else telling you he was worth 2m a year later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMuffin Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 In 77 (league) appearances since the 2010/11 season, Sammon's managed 9 goals. He failed to score in 27 appearances for Wigan. Since joining from Wigan; Sammon's missed 2 spot kicks, failed to score in all his international appearances and scored 9 in 47 appearances for Derby. How do people come to the conclusion he will bag 15+ next season? No one can argue with these numbers but they will. The rest of the team wouldn't be capable of scoring if Sammon wasn't playing in some people's eyes. Russell, Martin & Ward should all be above that very hard working lump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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