notts_ram Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 I've had a long day so forgive me for asking. Is it possible that we overpaid for someone yet still we make a profit on him? I'm struggling to work it out. Wouldn't it be foresight and good judgement to buy someone for 1.2m only to have someone else telling you he was worth 2m a year later. Just like Claude Davis was worth £3 million Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxram Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Minutes per assist 1 Bueno 270 2 Commons 285 3 Ward 292 4 Cywka 335 5 Lupoli 443 6 Howard 481 7 Sammon 594 8 Davies 634 9 Ellington 665 10 Barnes 884 11 Varney 887 12 Tito 1235 13 Hulse 1292 14 Theo 1494 15 Tyson 1636 16 Porter N/A IMO there are so many problems with the assist system when comparing players. A goal is a goal if the ball crosses the line no matter who is in charge (at least that's the rule). But assists are someone's, and I don't know who's, interpretation. A spectator may feel a player created the opportunity but if the decision maker judges the goal scorer to have set himself up from general play, no assist. They are as debatable as fouls. Assists are picked up all the time from set-pieces hence Beuno, Commons and Ward at the top. Make Grant freekick taker and he will get assists too. Another downfall of assists is that if the strikers can shoot but the midfield couldn't hit a barn door, a striker will get less assists due to the person they assist being poor at shooting. They don't just show the ability of the named player but the others too. A player may get 10 assist a season but in a team of lemmings get Zero assists while being no worse at creating goal scoring opportunities. While I like that it gives credit to those who don't end up being the final scorer, they are inconsistent and when used to compare players abilities they are basically just as exact as FIFA ratings (at least on championship players). If Sammon made no improvement to his play for next year but has Russell, and he turns out to finish like we have seen, then I'm sure he will get more assists and move up that table while being just as good/bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Just like Claude Davis was worth £3 million Your point being? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramble On Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 In 77 (league) appearances since the 2010/11 season, Sammon's managed 9 goals. He failed to score in 27 appearances for Wigan. Since joining from Wigan; Sammon's missed 2 spot kicks, failed to score in all his international appearances and scored 9 in 47 appearances for Derby. How do people come to the conclusion he will bag 15+ next season? I'd set him ten a season as a reasonable target for him, his main job is holding the ball up and linking up with Russell who, in the plans will be the main goalscorer (hopefully! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMuffin Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 I'd set him ten a season as a reasonable target for him, his main job is holding the ball up and linking up with Russell who, in the plans will be the main goalscorer (hopefully! ) Martin holds up better than Sammon and his ball retention is better. Martin & Russell is a more natural partnership in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nijul_cluff Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Derby will get promoted next season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notts_ram Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Your point being? That anyone can overpay heinously on a player but it doesnt necessarily mean that the manager who brought that player in for less money is a genius, it could be that the muppet shelling out the huge figure is totally delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 That anyone can overpay heinously on a player but it doesnt necessarily mean that the manager who brought that player in for less money is a genius, it could be that the muppet shelling out the huge figure is totally delusional. You don't half twist a point. I dont care how much anyone paid for Claude Davis. Other than to say whoever did should be giving a real kicking. Nowhere near anything dangerous of course, just a little graze in the small of the back. The point I made was, is it possible to over pay for something but still make a profit on it. If you make a profit, surely it indicates you bought something at cheaper than it's market value? Claude Davis my arse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSheep Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 In 77 (league) appearances since the 2010/11 season, Sammon's managed 9 goals. He failed to score in 27 appearances for Wigan. Since joining from Wigan; Sammon's missed 2 spot kicks, failed to score in all his international appearances and scored 9 in 47 appearances for Derby. How do people come to the conclusion he will bag 15+ next season? because bucko told me so it must be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramble On Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Martin holds up better than Sammon and his ball retention is better. Martin & Russell is a more natural partnership in my opinion. From what I saw there wasn't too much in between them on that level, Martin will hopefully come back from pre season more in trim as he didn't have that half a yard needed as a striker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Your point being? His point being Ronnie that he thinks Conor Sammon is a "chunk of garbage". I give up, I really do. This is a guy who rates his own intelligence (IQ level was mentioned in another thread a while back) then comes up with that. I feel insulted for Conor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 If The Sun makes up another story on Sammon next summer I think whoever posts the story on here should be shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeedsCityRam Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 This statement is pretty much as wrong as you're going to get on here tonight. The damn list is posted right above as well. Of the 16 attacking players listed Sammon came 7th, ahead of the likes of Barnes and Steve Davies for assists. Assists wise last season he was absolutely fine. In fact, taking out the wingers and attacking mids (Commons, Cywka, Ward, Bueno and arguably Lupoli) you're only really left with Howard above him as far as strikers go. On a divisional level there is absolutely nothing wrong with the rate he's getting assists at from what I can find either, so I have absolutely no idea where you pulled that from. It's also odd to see a huge reliance on stats in this case, particularly as he's not the kind of player who's going to score huge numbers of goals. He may well be capable of 12-15 goals next season, but I wouldn't see him as an out and out goal scorer. If anything from last season the stats showed that we were a far more threatening attacking force with him in the side, and the sudden rise in the strike rate across the park with him in the side is striking the say the least. Sometimes you do need a workhorse, and Sammon certainly offers that, and he can certainly still score and set up the odd goal too. Another factor that a lot seem to like ignoring is that one thing he showed last season that we have been in desperate need of for years is that he could actually play a full season. Do not underestimate the value of this if he can maintain it as last season. When we've had the likes of Porter, Commons and Davies in recent times, it's refreshing to have a striker who not only will work his socks off and help create space for others, but also a striker who will actually play a full season. Great post. You can see with all the clamour for the likes of Billy Sharp that some folk just don't understand that a successful forward line has to have blend. Sammon isn't going to score 20 goals a season - we know this. But we look a better team with him, his workrate, movement, pace and awareness. Hell - he might get even better if idiots didn't boo him & undermine his confidence. For any doubters, check out some of the opposition forums throughout the season for their comments on him - overwhelming positive. Trappatoni, a man who's forgotten more about football than most of us will ever know, rates him. And so it appears do a couple of Premiership managers. That's not to say that I'd be totally opposed to a sale - anything in excess of £2.5m would represent a 100% profit (on transfer fee alone) - not to be sniffed at. But he would be a loss in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notts_ram Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 His point being Ronnie that he thinks Conor Sammon is a "chunk of garbage". I give up, I really do. This is a guy who rates his own intelligence (IQ level was mentioned in another thread a while back) then comes up with that. I feel insulted for Conor. I dont rate my intelligence, the IQ test does that for you - if you disagree with its findings I suggest you go and berate the relatives of Alfred Binet for generating a flawed measure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 I dont rate my intelligence, the IQ test does that for you - if you disagree with its findings I suggest you go and berate the relatives of Alfred Binet for generating a flawed measure. How very predictable. Rate as in value. Value as in self publishing. Go figure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notts_ram Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 How very predictable. Glad I didnt disappoint you - anything else I can help you with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Glad I didnt disappoint you - anything else I can help you with Probably not thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robglosta Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 If he goes for 2m then fine and dandy as long as it is reinvested at CB and on a replacement. If he goes for around 1m I think we are losing out, and we will really notice the difference in energy up front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 God Commons was awesome when fit! playing for a new contract or a transfer FTFM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Conor Sammon is a great football player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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