Ramarena Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Why is this being passed off as an "article". It's just somebody's blog on Wordpress, most likely a Rams fan. It could even be the OP's own blog. I could have put my own musing down, but I certainly wouldn't bother calling it an article if I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 they say there's no room for sentiment in football, and whilst it would be nice to succeed on homegrown talent, it's rare to do so. The club shouldn't be at a detriment as a result of a philosophy that leaves us trailing behind other clubs. The footballing world has expanded, and it's been expansive for 20 years now, we cannot play a 21st century game by 1960s ideals! Seeing how the England U21s performed, and those players were allegedly better than Bennett and Hughes, makes you wonder if it's madness to rely on young local talent. But that's the whole point. There is no reason why we can't produce great footballers in this country. It's just that the philosophy over the last 10 years or so in the premier league has been to cherry pick talented players from abroad with cheque book management rather than bringing through our own youngsters. Don't underestimate our youngsters. Things change in football, who knows in 20 years time England may be world champions. I remember when Spain were complete also-rans! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asanovic Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 I love the bloke. I really do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rezner Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 oooo it was like a team talk,I'm up for it now gaffa. Bring on the season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 I'd give him a new contract before lunch if it were up to me. Big fan of his and his methods. I think his newly acquired coaching qualifications could be the catalyst for him as a manager. In a strange way I feel he has been neglected as Derby manager. The 5th longest serving manager in the English league. This must mean that he has met his targets set by his employers and that he is confident that this will continue yet some fans still don't believe. There are very few manager out there thay would've stuck around with constant trimming of budgets and criticism from fans but his extreme persistence is one of his best qualities. A fully functioning academy, a team that is being moulded with youngster from the academy that are proud to wear the Derby shirt and a manager that through adversity has come through the bad times (hopefully) with a view to push on to greater things with the club? Yes please and thank you very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North_Stand_Ram Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 How long has he got left? 2 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 How long has he got left? 2 years? I don't want to cause any rows, premature celebrations or panic, it's just personal opinion and I'm usually wildly wrong. I think one of the reasons the club is being so positive is to increase the pressure on NC results wise and also to prepare for all scenarios. We're shouting to anyone who will listen, that our ambitions are to be constantly in touch at the top end of the table. Sam Rush has been very bullish indeed in any of the interviews I've seen or listened to. Ideally we'll never be out of the top seven and we'll go on a run just after christmas that will see us cemented in the play offs, never in danger of dropping out. I think the first three months of the season are vital. If we get off to a good start then there'll be a real buzz about the place. Mediocre to worse and I think the club will be looking to make a managerial change. In short, he's got two years left on his contract but I think we're a dodgy run away from someone (foolishly) getting nervous. I get the feeling in my bones that the investors have decided 5 years is long enough. It's got to be a big season with real measurable progress. it's going to be a big season with real measurable progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North_Stand_Ram Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Couldn't agree more. It's make or break for Cloughie this term. We have to compete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 I'd give him a new contract before lunch if it were up to me. Big fan of his and his methods. I think his newly acquired coaching qualifications could be the catalyst for him as a manager. In a strange way I feel he has been neglected as Derby manager. The 5th longest serving manager in the English league. This must mean that he has met his targets set by his employers and that he is confident that this will continue yet some fans still don't believe. There are very few manager out there thay would've stuck around with constant trimming of budgets and criticism from fans but his extreme persistence is one of his best qualities. A fully functioning academy, a team that is being moulded with youngster from the academy that are proud to wear the Derby shirt and a manager that through adversity has come through the bad times (hopefully) with a view to push on to greater things with the club? Yes please and thank you very much. "stuck around"?? You make it sound like he's been a highly sought after manager with his pick of the jobs! The reason he 'stuck around" is because he's landed a job with an executive salary based on his surname! He's on the gravy-train, why would he get off? Whilst I am optimistic for the upcoming season, don't rewrite history.... Clough cannot be judged a success. He may not be the failure I often say he is, but he isn't the total opposite either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 If we lose first game there will be calls for Cloughs head. infact I don't think we've lost a game in the past 3 years without at least a few mumbles for his head - that's the most disappointing thing Football fans are *****, and in particular Derby County football fans are *****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 they say there's no room for sentiment in football, and whilst it would be nice to succeed on homegrown talent, it's rare to do so. The club shouldn't be at a detriment as a result of a philosophy that leaves us trailing behind other clubs. The footballing world has expanded, and it's been expansive for 20 years now, we cannot play a 21st century game by 1960s ideals! Seeing how the England U21s performed, and those players were allegedly better than Bennett and Hughes, makes you wonder if it's madness to rely on young local talent. Mostyn old chap - I know your gut reaction is to disagree with the article on principle but every single one of your points is complete nonsense let's look shall we, point 1) they say there's no room for sentiment in football, - this is a common saying - fact point 2) whilst it would be nice to succeed on homegrown talent, it's rare to do so - Aside from Manchester United and Barcelona, both of which have squads made up from at least 50% purchased players, no other teams succeed on homegrown talent, apart from in Germany, which is a different beast completely. - fact. point 3) The club shouldn't be at a detriment as a result of a philosophy that leaves us trailing behind other clubs - again, this is based upon opinion, but many Derby fans can see other teams have capitalised on the foreign markets whilst Derby have been left behind. - may not be 'fact' and is certainly 'subjective', but not 'nonsense' in any way. Anything that could be detrimental should be abandoned as a philosophy! point 4) The footballing world has expanded, and it's been expansive for 20 years now, we cannot play a 21st century game by 1960s ideals! - Again, football has moved on, players are fitter, richer and seen as investments, the professional game has moved on quantum leaps since the 60s, EVERY successfull team in the last 20 years is running on a totally different philosophy to what they were in the 1960s - fact point 5) makes you wonder if it's madness to rely on young local talent. - Bigger and better clubs than Derby are ignoring young talent, whilst I agree that will create future problems, modern football is only interested in the 'NOW' and not the future. With the average manager lasting only a couple of seasons, there's little reason to invest in the future when you won't be around to see it! Having seen the u21s with 100% loss record in a tournament they could and should be challenging for, it's safe to say that the coaching philosophies in this country are outdated. France, Spain and Germany ripped up their coaching manuals 20 years ago. At the same time, Howard Wilkinson was writing how to play hoofball into ours - fact. So, 'old chap', very little 'nonsense' in there, if any. Just because it leaves a bitter taste in your mouth to see someone question something you're unwilling to question, doesn't make it wrong/nonsense/etc.etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 "stuck around"?? You make it sound like he's been a highly sought after manager with his pick of the jobs! The reason he 'stuck around" is because he's landed a job with an executive salary based on his surname! He's on the gravy-train, why would he get off? Whilst I am optimistic for the upcoming season, don't rewrite history.... Clough cannot be judged a success. He may not be the failure I often say he is, but he isn't the total opposite either! Mostyn, it's that part that lets you down a litte bit in my humble opinion. I don't have the figures but I'd expect NIgel Clough to be quite a way down on the highest paid manager in the championship list. I'd hardly say he's on the gravy train. Secondly he didn't land the job because of his name, are you forgetting what he achieved in the game before that? Are you not slightly guilty of re-writing history in forgetting at which clubs he played and of which managers he learned from? He landed the job because he was right for the job at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Mostyn, it's that part that lets you down a litte bit in my humble opinion. I don't have the figures but I'd expect NIgel Clough to be quite a way down on the highest paid manager in the championship list. I'd hardly say he's on the gravy train. Secondly he didn't land the job because of his name, are you forgetting what he achieved in the game before that? Are you not slightly guilty of re-writing history in forgetting at which clubs he played and of which managers he learned from? He landed the job because he was right for the job at the time. What? Giving my honest opinion? I'd say giving a different opinion for fear of being disliked would let me down. The reason he's on the gravy train is the NOBODY else would've given him the job. There were rumours of Crewe and Forest, but that was just paper-talk. Had his surname been anything other than Clough, regardless of his achievements of a player, there's no way in a million years he'd have landed the Derby job. It's irrelevent which clubs he played for and which managers managed him, there are better players than him that have been worse managers then him, so no, I haven't rewritten anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 He landed the job because he was right for the job at the time. What? Giving my honest opinion? I'd say giving a different opinion for fear of being disliked would let me down. The reason he's on the gravy train is the NOBODY else would've given him the job. There were rumours of Crewe and Forest, but that was just paper-talk. Had his surname been anything other than Clough, regardless of his achievements of a player, there's no way in a million years he'd have landed the Derby job. It's irrelevent which clubs he played for and which managers managed him, there are better players than him that have been worse managers then him, so no, I haven't rewritten anything. I would have thought he landed the job in part because the owners wanted someone with a proven track record in building a club with very little money, little by little improving them to a point where they would survive in a higher league... Maybe... Since that seems to be what the board have always said were their aims... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 "stuck around"?? You make it sound like he's been a highly sought after manager with his pick of the jobs! The reason he 'stuck around" is because he's landed a job with an executive salary based on his surname! He's on the gravy-train, why would he get off? Whilst I am optimistic for the upcoming season, don't rewrite history.... Clough cannot be judged a success. He may not be the failure I often say he is, but he isn't the total opposite either! No, you read it like he was sought after. He may have just walked at some point no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 "stuck around"?? You make it sound like he's been a highly sought after manager with his pick of the jobs! The reason he 'stuck around" is because he's landed a job with an executive salary based on his surname! He's on the gravy-train, why would he get off? Whilst I am optimistic for the upcoming season, don't rewrite history.... Clough cannot be judged a success. He may not be the failure I often say he is, but he isn't the total opposite either! Sorry I just re-read your swill. Don't re-write history...Where? Clough cannot be judged a success? Why? Where has he failed? Do you perhaps have insight on his actual targets season by season? You like an ill informed bicker don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loweman2 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 they say there's no room for sentiment in football, and whilst it would be nice to succeed on homegrown talent, it's rare to do so. The club shouldn't be at a detriment as a result of a philosophy that leaves us trailing behind other clubs. The footballing world has expanded, and it's been expansive for 20 years now, we cannot play a 21st century game by 1960s ideals! Seeing how the England U21s performed, and those players were allegedly better than Bennett and Hughes, makes you wonder if it's madness to rely on young local talent. and that sums up everything that is currently wrong with English football, we were good enough at one time when every English club was made up of 90% English players instead of 10%, it all went wrong when over ambitious chairmen and clueless managers started to pay over inflated transfer fees and wages to average foreign footballers and forced our youngsters out of the game hence the reason why stuart pearce had the choice of a handful of quality English youngsters and not hundreds to choose from. If more clubs tried to do what we are doing at derby county English football would be in a lot stronger position, everything in life goes full circle and in years from now we will be back up there with the big boys or those who are still in existence and have managed to continue trading even though they are millions and million of ££££ in debt. Local talent all the way for me !!!! I would rather see a team of young lads putting some effort in and growing in stature and ability week after week than a team made up of the likes of ravanellis, mikel becks, bohinens, borbokis, west, bragstad, valikari, blatsis, zavagno, Ducrocq, Junior, Reich, Konjic, Thome, it was this shower of shat that nearly bankrupted in the last ten years, do we really want to take risks and go back to having a squad like this ?? one of our old managers said "rome wasn't built in a day !! but I wasn't on that job " cant remember his name but he was right, rome wasn't built in a day !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 What? Giving my honest opinion? I'd say giving a different opinion for fear of being disliked would let me down. The reason he's on the gravy train is the NOBODY else would've given him the job. There were rumours of Crewe and Forest, but that was just paper-talk. Had his surname been anything other than Clough, regardless of his achievements of a player, there's no way in a million years he'd have landed the Derby job. It's irrelevent which clubs he played for and which managers managed him, there are better players than him that have been worse managers then him, so no, I haven't rewritten anything. Not for giving your opinion, just for continuing down the tacky non league and lucky to be employed route. I still think you're missing why he was brought in and not showing any kind of respect for what he'd done before. I think you're missing as well how much of a pull Derby County wasn't at that particular time. Everyone in football knew it was a nightmare job. It broke Jewell. The relationship between Clough and Derby totally changed around 8 months before he got the job. Adam Pearson in particular was throwing compliments at him left right and centre. He'd built Burton from a nothing side into one which was getting better and better, everything he did stood them in good stead for the future as well. It was clear they were courting each other by the time he was appointed. He got the job because he was THE perfect fit for the job at that time. The club had nowt to spend and they'd already seen him at very close quarters, build a side and a legacy without bankrupting the owner. The name was an added bonus. The connections and the heart warming history, should have been enough to have grown men weeping in hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debaser Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Lots of people are frustrated with Clough because they don't see the club progressing as fast as their befuddled and naive minds want. The fact is Derby were a club in a massive downward spiral when Clough took over. I too share the frustration of his defensive tactics sometimes but then it's not me who gets ripped to shreds when a gamble doesn't pay off. I think he has done a great job just as he did for Burton - see below taken from the Telegraph years ago. When Clough joined the Brewers, the club were near the foot of the Dr Martens League Premier Division but he soon made them promotion contenders, finishing runners-up twice. Burton then switched to the UniBond League in 2001 following a Football Association restructure and the club took the division by storm, scoring over 100 goals on the way to winning a place in the Conference. Since then, Clough has turned Burton into a club capable of challenging for promotion to the Football League. Last season, Burton reached the Conference play-offs for the first time, losing 4-3 on aggregate to Cambridge United. Without doubt, however, Clough's biggest achievement was taking Manchester United to a replay at Old Trafford in the FA Cup third round in 2006. Although they lost 5-0, it produced a windfall of around £1 million, which wiped out the club's debts and paid for their new ground, the Pirelli Stadium. This season is big one for him and his plan for the club. I hope everyone gets behind the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 modern football is only interested in the 'NOW' and not the future. You see this is what you base your whole philosophy on and it clearly drives you mad that Derby County, the team you love, aren't behaving like every other team. It actually quite narrow-minded and must surely limit your enjoyment of the sport. It certainly seems like you don't "enjoy" supporting DCFC at the moment, which begs the question "why bother?" The amount of negative rage that exists inside you, that you're slowly letting seep out via internet forums is worrying. It can't be good for you mate! By the way I decided not to pick apart your analysis of why you weren't talking nonsense because it was just more nonsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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