top 6 finish Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Roy Mac almost snatched defeat from the jaws of victory didn't he. Actually someone posted the stats up sometime ago and Roys record was similar to Cloughs,except that Clough had been there for years,ran out on them and Roy did a great job to keep it going. Typical of you though to insult one of the greatest players in Derbys history and arguably the best centre half this country has ever produced.Why dont you just go and support Burton if you care that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Wow. Just wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Actually someone posted the stats up sometime ago and Roys record was similar to Cloughs,except that Clough had been there for years,ran out on them and Roy did a great job to keep it going. Typical of you though to insult one of the greatest players in Derbys history and arguably the best centre half this country has ever produced.Why dont you just go and support Burton if you care that much. You really don't like people disagreeing with you. I haven't seen anyone do a stats comparison on here - hit the search function and find it. I would enjoy reading it. I don't think my post is insulting to Roy, at least no more than your belittling of Clough building Burton into a club that could make it into the football league with a structure to stay there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
networker1884 Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Actually someone posted the stats up sometime ago and Roys record was similar to Cloughs,except that Clough had been there for years,ran out on them and Roy did a great job to keep it going. Typical of you though to insult one of the greatest players in Derbys history and arguably the best centre half this country has ever produced.Why dont you just go and support Burton if you care that much. f*ck me sideways...haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CumbrianRam Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 He basically got Burton into the Football League single handedly. But I guess your version of events fits your agenda. Don't see the relevance about Burton Albion, his dad isn't a crap manager for his spell at Leeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFCfranco Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Actually someone posted the stats up sometime ago and Roys record was similar to Cloughs,except that Clough had been there for years,ran out on them and Roy did a great job to keep it going. Typical of you though to insult one of the greatest players in Derbys history and arguably the best centre half this country has ever produced.Why dont you just go and support Burton if you care that much.oh dear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram@Lincoln Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Actually someone posted the stats up sometime ago and Roys record was similar to Cloughs,except that Clough had been there for years,ran out on them and Roy did a great job to keep it going. Typical of you though to insult one of the greatest players in Derbys history and arguably the best centre half this country has ever produced.Why dont you just go and support Burton if you care that much. You really don't like people disagreeing with you. I haven't seen anyone do a stats comparison on here - hit the search function and find it. I would enjoy reading it. I don't think my post is insulting to Roy, at least no more than your belittling of Clough building Burton into a club that could make it into the football league with a structure to stay there. A quick google of the statistics for Nigel's first half managing 24 games out of 46 and Roy's second half managing 22 games, granted it isn't exactly half but a 24/22 is practically a half and half split. For the split I've used the tables and fixtures found on Wikipedia, Non League Footy .co.uk website and the Burton Albion mad website to come with with a direct head to head comparison. Top 6 finish, you state that "Roys record was similar to Cloughs" and "Roy did a great job to keep it going." I beg to differ.... Clough Played: 24 Won: 18 Draw: 4 Loss: 2 Average points per game: 2.42 Points over season: 111.17 McFarland Played: 22 Won: 9 Draw: 3 Loss: 10 Average points per game: 1.36 Points over season: 62.73 I wouldn't class teams with essentially a 50 point difference at the end of the season at a similar level. Both managers had the exact same squad to pick from, McFarland inherited the squad with a winning mentality after winning 12 consecutive games under Clough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I must be the only one dubious about Clough doing his coaching badges? surely... There was no need for him to do them, none what so ever! He was settled here, no need to do them! The only reason I can think of, that he is gaining badges to ensure that he can get a job after us (within the laws of the game) Now, whether or not that means he is going to open up the door for teams to come up for him (doesn't seem like that sort of character, but who knows) or he is becoming increasingly worried about his role at Derby? Either way, I don't like the sound of it - I would much rather him grafting away in the office with his backroom staff rather than arguing about how a left back should play with Kevin ******* Davies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Nigel Clough get a better job after us? LOL No chance.. Why would anyone want to go near a manager who has yet to put together a winning side at league level and has lost more games than he's won.. Clubs go for managers who have proven that they can put together a promotion challenging side.. Unless his Dad was a footballing genius and managed the club to a top division title and therefore the fans will love him no matter how average he is. Nigel wouldn't get another job at this level, let alone one above this level.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CumbrianRam Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I must be the only one dubious about Clough doing his coaching badges? surely... There was no need for him to do them, none what so ever! He was settled here, no need to do them! The only reason I can think of, that he is gaining badges to ensure that he can get a job after us (within the laws of the game) Now, whether or not that means he is going to open up the door for teams to come up for him (doesn't seem like that sort of character, but who knows) or he is becoming increasingly worried about his role at Derby? Either way, I don't like the sound of it - I would much rather him grafting away in the office with his backroom staff rather than arguing about how a left back should play with Kevin ******* Davies Who would want him in the top two divisions, can't think of anyone really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I'm not going to bite. Clough is obviously the worst manager in the division, and in the top 2 divisions. Obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Having a look at next years sides and their managers.. Wigan - Unknown QPR - Promotion winning manager Reading - Promotion winning manager Watford - Winning manager with foreign contacts Brighton - Promotion winning manager plus foreign contacts Leicester - Promotion winning manager Bolton - Winning manager, took a club to the semi-final of the LC plus a top 6 spot during the season Forest - Promotion winning manager Charlton - Promotion winning manager Derby - Manager who has lost more than he's won in every season at this level Burnley - Winning manager who led an unfancied Watford side into top half Birmingham - Manager with unbeaten record at Hudds plus winning side making the playoffs Leeds Utd - Promotion winning manager Ipswich - Promotion winning manager Blackpool - Winning manager at MK Dons, although a suprisingly odd choice Middlesbrough - Promotion winning manager Blackburn - Who knows.. Washed up club. Sheff Wed - Promotion winning manager Huddersfield - Promotion winning manager Millwall - Had a promotion winning manager.. Now unknown Barnsley - Sacked a promotion winning manager and hired one with a very good win ratio (only the beginning) Yeovil - Promotion winning manager Doncaster - Promotion winning manager Bournemouth - Promotion winning manager OK.. So, should an option come available.. Look at the amount of clubs that go for managers with previous promotions, as they simply know that one with previous promotions at this level have far more a chance of getting promoted than one that doesn't.. Why the feck would anyone want to appoint a manager who loses more than he wins? And has no promotion experience at league level.. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 As I said Bris, Clough is the worst manager in the top 2 divisions. Easily - to bad we missed out on Paul Dickov! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Oh, and our team must be incredible to finish above all them clubs with all them amazing promotion winning managers! Just to think, if Clough wasn't here we'd probably win the league by feburary! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 As I said Bris, Clough is the worst manager in the top 2 divisions. Easily - to bad we missed out on Paul Dickov! Ah I forgot about Paul Dickov.. That'll go down as a strange decision and he certainly doesn't have a promotion to his name.. I never said Clough was the worst.. But he's certainly done nothing to suggest he's anywhere near good enough to even attract the attention of a bigger club.. I mean, Dickov goes down as a strange managerial appointment.. But that's no stranger than appointing a manager whose spent 10 years in the conference toddling along and only looking like getting promoted once.. I mean, if someone like Sheff Wed sack Dave Jones and appoint Nuneaton Town coach Kevin Wilkin because he has them top of the league after 6 years at the club then that would be pretty damn wierd too.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Ah I forgot about Paul Dickov.. That'll go down as a strange decision and he certainly doesn't have a promotion to his name.. I never said Clough was the worst.. But he's certainly done nothing to suggest he's anywhere near good enough to even attract the attention of a bigger club.. I mean, Dickov goes down as a strange managerial appointment.. But that's no stranger than appointing a manager whose spent 10 years in the conference toddling along and only looking like getting promoted once.. I mean, if someone like Sheff Wed sack Dave Jones and appoint Nuneaton Town coach Kevin Wilkin because he has them top of the league after 6 years at the club then that would be pretty damn wierd too.. I don't want to get into the same long drawn out argument, because we're nearly 5 years on from when he was appointed! Simply for me... Would I have Mick McCarthy over Nigel Clough - No. Would I have Paul Jewell over Nigel Clough - No... would I have Paul Ince over Nigel Clough - No, would I have Dave Jones over Nigel Clough -no...etc Nigel Clough is yet to fail, he has exceeded 'realistic' expectation more often than not IMO. 'realistic' expectation is to be inline or above the position of your budget within the division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CumbrianRam Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Dickov is the worst manager in to top two leagues by a mile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CumbrianRam Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I'm not going to bite. Clough is obviously the worst manager in the division, and in the top 2 divisions. Obviously. Not saying that, just saying that he is doing a solid job, enough to keep him here but not enough to excite externally. Could be a lot worse, but there is room for improvement and Nigel knows this himself. I can understand why people are losing patience as these past few seasons have showed a familiar pattern, but I can also see why people want him to stay, to be honest I would have sacked him on a couple of occasions if I was chairman (as would vast majority of Championship clubs owners) but the board stuck with him and he has signed a new deal so I think Nigel is happy with the set-up here the vice-versa. Nothing will make me happy the winning promotion under this current set-up and they way the club is run these days, but there are certain aspects that need fine tuning before that happens which doesn't just mean signing 6 new players or whatever. The main issues I have is: 1. The away form, started pretty well in that first half season we had but since then the record has been 17 points, 21 points, 27 points, 18 points. This season it probably cost us a play-off spot. 2. High player turnover, I understand that not every player is going to be a great signing but I also believe in a solid squad with two a three additions every season, however we seem to sell 8 and bring in another 6 every summer. 3. Late substitutions, sometimes when the game is getting away from us Nigel can be pretty slow to react to this and his substitution can be pretty late, like expection. Mason Bennett to do something in 20 mins when we were losing 2-0 at Watford. However he has made some good subs like using Ben Davies in the second half the season. 4. Poor defensive record, wonder if a defensive coach may help? The things I like about Nigel: 1. The faith in young players, I think the way out of this league is by using the approach of using young talented players so I'm very happy to see Nigel playing academy graudates like Will Hughes and Jeff Hendrick on a regular basis alongside lower league signing like John Brayford. 2. He tries to a possession based game, yes at times we play too much in midlife and we getting bullied at times from big bruiser sides like Ipswich but I have enjoyed some of our performances this year like Wolves away. 3. We are a very hard team at beat at Pride Park and we scored plenty of goals. How/if we solves these issues, we don't know but it will be interesting to find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maydrakin Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 In fairness to Clough, he is also a promotion winning manager (albeit, further down the pyramid). Neglecting past performance that doesn't suit an argument? Maybe he's doing his licence because it's an inevitability that he has to abide by the rules and he might as well sort it sooner than later? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I don't want to get into the same long drawn out argument, because we're nearly 5 years on from when he was appointed! Simply for me... Would I have Mick McCarthy over Nigel Clough - No. Would I have Paul Jewell over Nigel Clough - No... would I have Paul Ince over Nigel Clough - No, would I have Dave Jones over Nigel Clough -no...etc Nigel Clough is yet to fail, he has exceeded 'realistic' expectation more often than not IMO. 'realistic' expectation is to be inline or above the position of your budget within the division. Nigel Clough has failed.. Everytime you don't get promoted from this division you fail.. You can't succeed by staying in this division.. George Burley is never given credit on here and deemed an ultimate failure for failing to get us promoted but he got far closer than Clough ever has.. Seriously, how anyone can say that losing more games than winning in such an average league where everyone is as good as eachother is not failing then they're simply having a laugh.. You not swapping a manager with a proven record of winning promotion for one that has lost more games than he's won is literally suicidal and insane.. It's like training a horse whose only ever finished a high 10th and the majority finishing below the average and not swapping it for one that has a record of finishing 1st.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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