the overhaul needed...is not of players!

[Duracell]

Footballers are athletes at the end if the day.

Would you see Mo Farah being trained by someone whom is out of shape and doesn't look after themselves? Not a chance.

Footballers are athletes. The coaches aren't. So long as their brains and gobs are working, it doesn't matter about the rest of the body.

[mcsilks]

Sitting watching Swansea play yesterday, I found myself quite jealous of how they've came from way behind us to be so far ahead of us.

I asked the question "What would happen to Swansea if Nigel Clough became their manager!", I imagine a few Swansea fans (about 20000) would shudder at the thought of what Negative Nigel would do to their fluid, impressive and successful team!

Firstly, half of the Swansea side would be chucked on the bench for not being defensive enough, both Routledge and Dyer would be out, as would Michu for being too languid and not tracking back. Britton would be dragged off after 10 minutes for trying too many audacious passes, and Williams would be b*llocked for passing it short instead of hoofing it at ear height to the target man.

The problem we have at Derby is the coaching staff setup the side to be worried about the opponent and to try not to lose.

We don't need a new bunch of players, we need a new mentality.

Why would you start a thread about something completely unrelated (Swansea's success) to have a go at Clough and our coaching staff.

Negatives and negatives. That's all I read from you. How utterly boring.

Can you not see how we have played and passed some teams off the park this season?

Can you not recognise we have a really good set of youth players in and around the side?

Of course you can't but how could you?

You imply that we are a hoofball side.

Do you watch our games with a blindfold?

[blackNwhites]

Mostyn repeats his post for the 151st time.

[G STAR RAM]

Of course, I dont think it's fair to comment on things you don't see with your own eyes.

Like I alluded to, people are easily deceived by what they think they see. People used to see Robbie Savage chase a backpass and think he's played well and is dedicated, when the reality was that he would then blow bubbles for ten minutes whilst the opposing centre midfielder would be man of the match.

Nowadays, people see some intricate dinky one-touch passing across the middle-third and think we are a fluid passing team, when the reality is nothing like it. As I said in the original post, I was watching Swansea yesterday all angry and jealous, but confident in knowing that our coaching setup would kill their style instantly, even though it's proven effective. I mean, Nigel has ruined our style enough times when it's been working, by making stupid changes.

Fair enough if that is your opinion.

If you had said the same thing last season I would have 100% agreed with you.

I think there has been a lot more emphasis on passing football this season though (at least in the home matches) and the fact that Will Hughes was out best player for the first 20 or 30 games should highlight that point.

I agree that a lot of the time we have a lot of possession without creating too many killer chances but too accuse us of playing hoofball this season is incorrect in my opinion.

[WestLondonRam]

I spoke to a friend who is a reliable source and I won't mention names so no point asking.

If you don't belive what I say that is fine but I have no reason to doubt him as he has been right with info on a number of occasions..

I asked him how the atmosphere was in the dressing room and he told me it was good and that the players are brilliant with everyone.

I asked him if it was all going well and he told me as well as could be expected.

I said whats the mutter from the gutter.. and he paused and said "there's going to be a lot of changes" to what I said what players wise? to which he replied "No back room staff".. apparently Sam Rush wants to change things around at the club...

I didn't want to push it so I said no more about that.

I asked if we were selling any of the players to which he replied... "erm..." I said I'll take that as a yes then. to which he nodded.

I said is it bad? he replied. "2 first teamers that he knows of" I said is it Hughes? "He said yep and I said is the other one any good and he said "yep Hendrick". I asked what in the summer? he said yep we need the money..

I left it at that and told him i'd see him next game..

You don't need to believe me and I won't answer any questions on it but that's what I was told.

[Duracell]

These threads are getting ridiculous now. I don't see how the last 200 threads about our management have added anything new, and the next 200 won't either (but they'll definitely be posted anyway).

Every thread, anti-Clough posters keep saying the situation is "unacceptable" and that it's "time for him to go" etc etc, as if telling us on forums is actually going to do something about the situation. It won't. Everyone knows some people don't like Clough. I don't need or want to know everyone's opinion about him.

Even if you do happen to make a post or thread so convincing that you even convert one pro-Clough poster into an anti-Clough poster (by the way, that has never happened with any fan of any club since the internet was invented), what happens then? Does Asanovic becoming an anti-Clough fan advance the manager's departure in any way at all?

[Mostyn6]

These threads are getting ridiculous now. I don't see how the last 200 threads about our management have added anything new, and the next 200 won't either (but they'll definitely be posted anyway).

Every thread, anti-Clough posters keep saying the situation is "unacceptable" and that it's "time for him to go" etc etc, as if telling us on forums is actually going to do something about the situation. It won't. Everyone knows some people don't like Clough. I don't need or want to know everyone's opinion about him.

Even if you do happen to make a post or thread so convincing that you even convert one pro-Clough poster into an anti-Clough poster (by the way, that has never happened with any fan of any club since the internet was invented), what happens then? Does Asanovic becoming an anti-Clough fan advance the manager's departure in any way at all?

If that's how you feel, then perhaps a 'debate' site, where people voice their opinions, is not for you!

I've only been an active poster for about a week, and I havent made 200 posts about this subject.

I think my point has been lost on many of you who actually cannot see past the fact I'm critical of the coaching setup.

I think the Swansea point is valid (I know you didn't dismiss it duracell), as they were below us, and have now overtaken us with nothing more than a philosophy!

[mcsilks]

I spoke to a friend who is a reliable source and I won't mention names so no point asking.

If you don't belive what I say that is fine but I have no reason to doubt him as he has been right with info on a number of occasions..

I asked him how the atmosphere was in the dressing room and he told me it was good and that the players are brilliant with everyone.

I asked him if it was all going well and he told me as well as could be expected.

I said whats the mutter from the gutter.. and he paused and said "there's going to be a lot of changes" to what I said what players wise? to which he replied "No back room staff".. apparently Sam Rush wants to change things around at the club...

I didn't want to push it so I said no more about that.

I asked if we were selling any of the players to which he replied... "erm..." I said I'll take that as a yes then. to which he nodded.

I said is it bad? he replied. "2 first teamers that he knows of" I said is it Hughes? "He said yep and I said is the other one any good and he said "yep Hendrick". I asked what in the summer? he said yep we need the money..

I left it at that and told him i'd see him next game..

You don't need to believe me and I won't answer any questions on it but that's what I was told.

And I hope the bit about the players is true.

The only way DCFC moves forward is if we sell and reinvest part of the money on the side.

8~10M for Brayford and Hughes would do nicely if 6M were given to Clough to replace and improve.

[Matt Carbon]

I have heard very similar WestLondonRam.

Sources close to Clough and Garner seem to think that they are expecting the boot in the summer. (I hope so).

I speak to my other half's family who are all 'pro-clough', and they can't believe that attendances are dropping and they think we are playing great football at home this year, so opinions are clearly split, but I come back to the age old argument... if Nigel and his cronies left DCFC who would be offering them jobs in the NPC?

I watch Middlesborough on the FL show, and cant help but fear that we could be facing empty seats, boring football and zero ambition for some time to come. I won't be renewing. It doesn't offer value for money... and I am biased because I cannot stand Clough.

Negative? Absolutely....I can't pretend to be entertained by it anymore.

[Mostyn6]

Why would you start a thread about something completely unrelated (Swansea's success) to have a go at Clough and our coaching staff. Of course it's related. Football is all relative! How would you know what's bad if you couldn't see what's good!?!? how do you measure success if you don't see success? What a ridiculous point of view! My point is that Swansea have come from below us to miles above, on the back of nothing more than philosophy!

Negatives and negatives. That's all I read from you. How utterly boring. Until the middle sentence, I thought you was on about Derby under Nigel!

Can you not see how we have played and passed some teams off the park this season? Exageration!

Can you not recognise we have a really good set of youth players in and around the side? Yes, I can see them.

how could you?

You imply that we are a hoofball side.

Do you watch our games with a blindfold?

Mostyn repeats his post for the 151st time.

[ronnieronalde]

If that's how you feel, then perhaps a 'debate' site, where people voice their opinions, is not for you!

I've only been an active poster for about a week, and I havent made 200 posts about this subject.

I think my point has been lost on many of you who actually cannot see past the fact I'm critical of the coaching setup.

I think the Swansea point is valid (I know you didn't dismiss it duracell), as they were below us, and have now overtaken us with nothing more than a philosophy!

I think you've been an active poster a bit longer than that Mostyn, I still remember that fat pink numpty who sat in the bath. 606 as well you've been there for ages and it's never been with a different angle.

Do you know how long after Clough had started you made your first "Clough out before he destroys the fabric of the club" post?

One day before it was officially confirmed he got the job.

[ramblur]

For a long time in Swansea's development they retained possession well without scoring many goals.As they've added better players their overall performance has improved.I suspect it will be the same with us,assuming Clough is able to add better players.His philosophy as player and manager has been a passing game.

[Duracell]

If that's how you feel, then perhaps a 'debate' site, where people voice their opinions, is not for you!

I've only been an active poster for about a week, and I havent made 200 posts about this subject.

I think my point has been lost on many of you who actually cannot see past the fact I'm critical of the coaching setup.

I think the Swansea point is valid (I know you didn't dismiss it duracell), as they were below us, and have now overtaken us with nothing more than a philosophy!

There are plenty of threads to debate this already though. I like debating and discussing things on this forum and most of the time that happens, but then we get flurries of threads which turn in to a pointless slugging match.

I wasn't talking directly to you, but there's definitely a trend right now for anyone who wants to convey an anti-management sentiment starts an entirely new thread. Then, a Clough supporter comes along, offends the anti-Clough posters and we get 12 pages of a thread. And no one's opinion changes and neither side accepts anything the other says. That's not debating.

The worst part of these threads is the nick-naming. "Non-league Nigel" etc. Can't have a proper discussion when that goes on. Imagine a Labour MP talking about "Facist Cameron" on QT.

If you're new you won't realise you're doing it...but some know they are.

[CumbrianRam]

The past three managers of Swansea Martinez, Sousa and Rodgers moved on to higher ranked clubs whilst at Swansea, show it shows that Huw Jenkins knows a bit about football! Now Swansea are doing better than all these managers.

[Albert]

I'm pretty sure after reading this thread that he's a WUM.

I spoke to a friend who is a reliable source and I won't mention names so no point asking.

If you don't belive what I say that is fine but I have no reason to doubt him as he has been right with info on a number of occasions..

I asked him how the atmosphere was in the dressing room and he told me it was good and that the players are brilliant with everyone.

I asked him if it was all going well and he told me as well as could be expected.

I said whats the mutter from the gutter.. and he paused and said "there's going to be a lot of changes" to what I said what players wise? to which he replied "No back room staff".. apparently Sam Rush wants to change things around at the club...

I didn't want to push it so I said no more about that.

I asked if we were selling any of the players to which he replied... "erm..." I said I'll take that as a yes then. to which he nodded.

I said is it bad? he replied. "2 first teamers that he knows of" I said is it Hughes? "He said yep and I said is the other one any good and he said "yep Hendrick". I asked what in the summer? he said yep we need the money..

I left it at that and told him i'd see him next game..

You don't need to believe me and I won't answer any questions on it but that's what I was told.

Selling Hughes and Hendrick at the same time would be madness, and whilst I don't doubt that there's a chance of Hughes going, I really doubt that Hedrick would be sold unless an absolutely ridiculous offer comes in. The reaction to Shackell leaving was bad enough, imagine losing our two best young midfield talents in one go, at that point we may as well just announce our intention to tread water for the next decade.

This all said, I have some questions mate. Firstly, explain this post and the thread as a whole:

I spoke to Theo Robinson after the game on Saturday. He said to me that he was being dropped to reserve team on Monday.

He then proceded to tell me that he is not happy at the club and said he would leave in January if an offer came in.

I am a little worried about how unsettled he is. I don't know if that was him venting off steam but he was not best pleased.

Despite playing in the U21s that week he did in fact start the next 4 games it seems (the post was from the 19th, the first game he started after was the 24th) scoring twice in the process.

The general impression from the thread was that you were a WUM. I wouldn't go that far, but you seem to talk directly to staff or people in the know quite a bit:

AGREED!!!

I think we are readying for Brayford to go. Freeman is getting match time at the moment and has been getting more involved in the first team recently.

He played well out of position on Saturday and I would be happy to bank the money if we have too and move to bring in a left back.

I also think Will is to smart and loyal to move if he has a choice, I asked Cloughie if Will would be going in Jan after the Palace game and he said quickly said No!!

This one is also quite interesting:

Well P**** G***** is not very nice. Obviously can't say to much but my Grandad was assistant manager at derby a while back and what he done to him was horrendous.

...can you give us anything else?

[Asanovic]

If that's how you feel, then perhaps a 'debate' site, where people voice their opinions, is not for you!

I've only been an active poster for about a week, and I havent made 200 posts about this subject.

I think my point has been lost on many of you who actually cannot see past the fact I'm critical of the coaching setup.

I think the Swansea point is valid (I know you didn't dismiss it duracell), as they were below us, and have now overtaken us with nothing more than a philosophy!

Mostyn - you clearly have a problem with the management. Whilst I don't agree, I do respect your opinion (although I don't respect you telling me I misinterpret dinky passing as being a good footballing team - that's an opinion, and I can form them with my own eyes).

I agree with some of your points - we could, on occasion, be more positive.

BUT - I think Clough is doing a decent job overall, bottom line. You seem to feel pretty strongly that he isn't, and it's time for a change.

My question to you, and all the other people who feel Clough should go is - what are you doing about it?

Where are the protests? Where are the banners? You'll no doubt say that attendances tell the story, but they don't - attendances are down all over the place. What are you doing about it, apart from coming on here, having a moan?

NC must be the least popular manager in the history of world football that hasn't been on the end of a protest, or even a 'Clough Out' chant. Going to our games, you wouldn't even know there was a split opinion on him. It's only when you're in the car listening to Radio Derby, or logging on here.

I remember going to forest and getting rinsed out 3-0. People were going absolutely postal, calling for Gregory's head. We lost 5-2 and even then the moaning towards Clough didn't start until the day after.

The day there's a significant movement against the current management (which there should be - I've stood/sat around hundreds of people who mutter under their breath about it) is the day I'll take the complaining seriously. Otherwise, as much as I do respect opinions, it comes across as hot air, a frustration after a defeat.

[blackNwhites]

And I hope the bit about the players is true.

The only way DCFC moves forward is if we sell and reinvest part of the money on the side.

8~10M for Brayford and Hughes would do nicely if 6M were given to Clough to replace and improve.

Cardiff are only top because they had a top 6 side complimented with £10m additions.

I think Clough could turn £10m (maybe even £6m) into a promotion winning side, but I'd be gutted to see Brayford go. Not sure how easy it is to replace a right back, but I'd guess it's slightly easier than replacing a CB, CM or CF.

[eranio20]

Burnley got seven million for Rodriguez, has done them wonders.

[blackNwhites]

I have heard very similar WestLondonRam.

Sources close to Clough and Garner seem to think that they are expecting the boot in the summer. (I hope so).

I speak to my other half's family who are all 'pro-clough', and they can't believe that attendances are dropping and they think we are playing great football at home this year, so opinions are clearly split, but I come back to the age old argument... if Nigel and his cronies left DCFC who would be offering them jobs in the NPC?

I watch Middlesborough on the FL show, and cant help but fear that we could be facing empty seats, boring football and zero ambition for some time to come. I won't be renewing. It doesn't offer value for money... and I am biased because I cannot stand Clough.

Negative? Absolutely....I can't pretend to be entertained by it anymore.

I don't think DCFC would ever stoop to the nightmarish existence of Middlesbrough. The only reason they ever sold out in the first place is because they had household names at the club, like Juninhio, Emerson and Ravanelli.

[Mostyn6]

how many different threads can this c*ck make to get his point across.

I think I've only made two threads so wind your neck in, or debate the points. The fact that you have to resort to petty name-calling says it all about you. Not intelligent enough to hold a conversation and not mature enough to accept other people have opinions without spitting your dummy and name-calling. How proud your parents must be!