YoungUttoxRam Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Take Kenny Jackett for example, works on a similar budget to Clough, doesn't have bucket loads to spend and has to wheel and deal to improve the side on a yearly basis. How many of the Millwall squad would to take at dcfc in a heartbeat? None are world beaters and are to the standard of Bryson, Hughes and even Sammon. So why can they be joint sixth in the league, conceded less goals- despite not signing a good proven centre half in the mould of Barker/Shackell. And they've scored the same amount without spending millions on a striker, how can they achieve such a feet without no money in the pot and yet we can't despite spending a fair bit over the past three years? Ive never said fielding, barker, Brayford and Bryson weren't good signing, but there's obviously a weak link in the side if youve only managed to come up with croft, Martin and maguire on your little "bad signing" list. If the rest of the signings are decent then we'd be better prepared than getting beat 4-1 at Leicester and going out to shrewsbury in the cup... My opinion anyway, can't be arsed to argue for the whole day about who's good and who isn't. i'd consider Danny Shittu a 'good proven centre back' and only 3 points ahead of ourselves with only 3 less conceded. Poor example really 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' /> now stop whinging! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcdcfc28 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Shittu who has managed around 40 games since 08 or a younger just as good Keogh? Oooooshhhhh hard call that. How am I whinging? It's a forum, a place for debate. I've shown we've spent more money than most clubs in this league, yet there's the likes palace, hull, Watford, Huddersfield,charlton, millwall around/above us playing better football and looking likely they'll finish in a decent position. For the money we have spent on the defence alone we should be better than conceding 32 goals after 21 games, simply not good enough. Show me how many teams currently in this league have spent 400,000 on a keeper, a million on a right back (inc bailey), a million a piece on two central defenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Shittu who has managed around 40 games since 08 or a younger just as good Keogh? Oooooshhhhh hard call that. How am I whinging? It's a forum, a place for debate. I've shown we've spent more money than most clubs in this league, yet there's the likes palace, hull, Watford, Huddersfield,charlton, millwall around/above us playing better football and looking likely they'll finish in a decent position. For the money we have spent on the defence alone we should be better than conceding 32 goals after 21 games, simply not good enough. Show me how many teams currently in this league have spent 400,000 on a keeper, a million on a right back (inc bailey), a million a piece on two central defenders. Huddesrfield and Charlton are below us and Hull have a much bigger budget.Are they playing better football than us? Brayford cost £300=400k and only one of our million pound centre backs are fit. The other CB is ex Burton and Mansfield Jake Buxton who cost nowt and isn't paid much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcdcfc28 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I said 'around' us, do charlton have a 1.2mill striker? A million pound centre half and a half mill keeper sat on the bench? Brayford for the record was a transfer costing 1m rising to 1.3m http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brayford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoungUttoxRam Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Shittu who has managed around 40 games since 08 or a younger just as good Keogh? Oooooshhhhh hard call that. How am I whinging? It's a forum, a place for debate. I've shown we've spent more money than most clubs in this league, yet there's the likes palace, hull, Watford, Huddersfield,charlton, millwall around/above us playing better football and looking likely they'll finish in a decent position. For the money we have spent on the defence alone we should be better than conceding 32 goals after 21 games, simply not good enough. Show me how many teams currently in this league have spent 400,000 on a keeper, a million on a right back (inc bailey), a million a piece on two central defenders. contradicting yourself again, basically saying but worded differently we would probably have no millwall payer in our team yet you say keogh is just as good as Shittu, personally I'd like them both in our defence by that assessment as they're both good Championship defenders. Now, stop whinging and use the Internet properly and watch or something to relieve some of that terrible stress you seem to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcdcfc28 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Dude can't take anything you or Franco say seriously. 64 posts and Acting like they're chief sausagehole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal is a Ram Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I said 'around' us, do charlton have a 1.2mill striker? A million pound centre half and a half mill keeper sat on the bench? Brayford for the record was a transfer costing 1m rising to 1.3m [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brayford]http://en.wikipedia....i/John_Brayford That deal also included James Bailey. So if you say half for each player then Brayford was bought for 500-650k. A bargain really, he could easily go to a lower Prem side for a couple of million at the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 This. I just liked "This." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jourdan Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Within the players highlighted above are two players of the year, out most potent attacking threat and the player with themost assists last year. Clearly something to prove 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rolleyes:' /> Maybe I should have expanded on this point but it was 2 in the morning so here it goes. Has Barker truly proven himself to be a good signing? Has he been a good investment at close to £1 million? At this point, I would say no. Yes, he's been unfortunate with injuries and the club probably exacerbated the problem by repeatedly allowing him to play without being fully fit. I don't think he has improved us defensively but let's see him fully fit, playing week in, week out and be able to judge him more accurately. He could yet prove his worth. Bryson had a good year last season all things considered. But is that enough to constitute being a good signing? Can he do it again? I'm not completely sold on Bryson but many others are. I don't think he's the calibre of player to build our midfield around if we want to push on into the top six but if he improves on last year, I'll gladly eat my words. There's no doubt Ward has had good spells as a second striker and a winger but he's quite inconsistent and the fact that Clough can't decide on the best way to utilise him would point to that. If Ward had performed the way he does for 5-10 games over a longer period, then I think he would be up there with Brayford and Robinson as one of Clough's best signings. Well I think the fact Ben Davies was on the verge of leaving the club in the last transfer window and is very much having to fight his way back into the first-team picture would suggest he still has something to prove. So yes, I stand by what I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcdcfc28 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 That deal also included James Bailey. So if you say half for each player then Brayford was bought for 500-650k. A bargain really, he could easily go to a lower Prem side for a couple of million at the least. Bailey was little more than a reserve player at Crewe, even the fans were surprised to see him leave. The vast majority of the fee was for Brayford, 650k on one of Crewes reserve team players? c'mon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal is a Ram Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Bailey was little more than a reserve player at Crewe, even the fans were surprised to see him leave. The vast majority of the fee was for Brayford, 650k on one of Crewes reserve team players? c'mon! The point is that we didn't pay a million for just Brayford. Fluck me you're picky! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcdcfc28 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I never said we fookin did! I included bailey in my post if you open your eyeballs! Post #162 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal is a Ram Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 The exact line is "a million on a right back (inc bailey)" which would suggest we paid a million for Brayford ALONE which we didn't - thus he wasn't a million pound right back!. A reason as to why that might be higher is that Burton were due 20% sell on - it might have been less given that Crewe would probably have said "we want to make this much so add the 20%". i.e. we may well have got the pair for 800k but had to pay that bit more. Still they were worth every penny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Take Kenny Jackett for example, works on a similar budget to Clough, doesn't have bucket loads to spend and has to wheel and deal to improve the side on a yearly basis. How many of the Millwall squad would to take at dcfc in a heartbeat? None are world beaters and are to the standard of Bryson, Hughes and even Sammon. So why can they be joint sixth in the league, conceded less goals- despite not signing a good proven centre half in the mould of Barker/Shackell. And they've scored the same amount without spending millions on a striker, how can they achieve such a feet without no money in the pot and yet we can't despite spending a fair bit over the past three years? Ive never said fielding, barker, Brayford and Bryson weren't good signing, but there's obviously a weak link in the side if youve only managed to come up with croft, Martin and maguire on your little "bad signing" list. If the rest of the signings are decent then we'd be better prepared than getting beat 4-1 at Leicester and going out to shrewsbury in the cup... My opinion anyway, can't be arsed to argue for the whole day about who's good and who isn't. Millwall are a poor example because their season is being underpinned by the excellent form of Chris Woods, who they can't afford so have him on loan and are about to loose him for the second half of the season because Leicester are offering West Brom £1m for him. Also their back four is made up of Shittu (who despite his injury record is a very good defender at this level) and two players who've been there for donkeys years. Stability within a defense counts for a lot, how many times has Nigel been able to name the same back four for consecutive games??? You'd have been better providing Barnsley or Shef Weds as an example but that would've made your argument a mute point because a number of our players would stroll into their sides. Maybe I should have expanded on this point but it was 2 in the morning so here it goes. Has Barker truly proven himself to be a good signing? Has he been a good investment at close to £1 million? At this point, I would say no. Yes, he's been unfortunate with injuries and the club probably exacerbated the problem by repeatedly allowing him to play without being fully fit. I don't think he has improved us defensively but let's see him fully fit, playing week in, week out and be able to judge him more accurately. He could yet prove his worth. Bryson had a good year last season all things considered. But is that enough to constitute being a good signing? Can he do it again? I'm not completely sold on Bryson but many others are. I don't think he's the calibre of player to build our midfield around if we want to push on into the top six but if he improves on last year, I'll gladly eat my words. There's no doubt Ward has had good spells as a second striker and a winger but he's quite inconsistent and the fact that Clough can't decide on the best way to utilise him would point to that. If Ward had performed the way he does for 5-10 games over a longer period, then I think he would be up there with Brayford and Robinson as one of Clough's best signings. Well I think the fact Ben Davies was on the verge of leaving the club in the last transfer window and is very much having to fight his way back into the first-team picture would suggest he still has something to prove. So yes, I stand by what I said. I think if a majority of (say 90%) of Derby fans would class Barker as a success, it isn't his fault he was asked to play when not 100% He is a tower of strength in our defense and I'm sure that if you looked at the stats we conceed less goals when he's playing than when he doesn't. I'm not a huge fan of Bryson myself but he is a vital cog in our machine and we miss his energy when he's not there. Ward, I'll give you can be inconsistant but again that's down to how Nigel deploys him and (to a certain degree last year) overplaying him. It was obvious before he got injured against the Gumps that playing him down the middle was reaping dividends and I personally can't wait to get him back in the side. So what if Bavies is out of the side (Danny Welbeck isn't getting much time at Man U but you wouldn't call him a waste) when he plays he can produce. It is a squad game these days and he has provided value for money. Also Nigel didn't say he wanted rid of him but thought sending him out on loan would be more beneficial than having him kicking his heels in the reserves. Fair play to the lad he stuck around and fought for his place... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcdcfc28 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 MIllwall are simply above us because they are a better footballing side, with a better manager. They have a great opportunity at finishing around the play offs with or without woods. Keogh, Trotter, feeney all decent players yet like I said, no world beaters. Who cares if woods is on loan? We had lupoli under billy Davies and managed without him at wembley and southampton... Accouring to most on here we have the best two defenders in the league in Brayford and Keogh, the future England number one, a worthy 1.2 striker, the best teenager since Neymar, a great championship bargain basement defender in buxton and the most energetic player since kuku the cat in Bryson. With those opinions from our very insightful fans, surely we should be better than sitting tenth in the league? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 MIllwall are simply above us because they are a better footballing side, with a better manager. They have a great opportunity at finishing around the play offs with or without woods. Keogh, Trotter, feeney all decent players yet like I said, no world beaters. Who cares if woods is on loan? We had lupoli under billy Davies and managed without him at wembley and southampton... Accouring to most on here we have the best two defenders in the league in Brayford and Keogh, the future England number one, a worthy 1.2 striker, the best teenager since Neymar, a great championship bargain basement defender in buxton and the most energetic player since kuku the cat in Bryson. With those opinions from our very insightful fans, surely we should be better than sitting tenth in the league? Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 MIllwall are simply above us because they are a better footballing side, with a better manager. They have a great opportunity at finishing around the play offs with or without woods. Keogh, Trotter, feeney all decent players yet like I said, no world beaters. Who cares if woods is on loan? We had lupoli under billy Davies and managed without him at wembley and southampton... Accouring to most on here we have the best two defenders in the league in Brayford and Keogh, the future England number one, a worthy 1.2 striker, the best teenager since Neymar, a great championship bargain basement defender in buxton and the most energetic player since kuku the cat in Bryson. With those opinions from our very insightful fans, surely we should be better than sitting tenth in the league? And using your logic, surely Millwall finished above us in the league last season? Lets discuss how good Millwall are and how bad Derby are come the end of May when the season has finished, surely then we will have a better indicator of how the sides compare? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 MIllwall are simply above us because they are a better footballing side, with a better manager. They have a great opportunity at finishing around the play offs with or without woods. Keogh, Trotter, feeney all decent players yet like I said, no world beaters. Who cares if woods is on loan? We had lupoli under billy Davies and managed without him at wembley and southampton... Accouring to most on here we have the best two defenders in the league in Brayford and Keogh, the future England number one, a worthy 1.2 striker, the best teenager since Neymar, a great championship bargain basement defender in buxton and the most energetic player since kuku the cat in Bryson. With those opinions from our very insightful fans, surely we should be better than sitting tenth in the league? Surely if Millwall were to sell those, shall we say influential, players their results would suffer??? Your point of Lupoli doesn't hold up because we had him on a season long loan so the last two games of a season doesn't really matter. Besides John Macken & Craig Fagen had been brought in by then and they covered for lack of Lupoli's quality 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ph34r' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':ph34r:' /> I bet if Millwall don't manage to extend Woods' deal beyond January their results will take a down turn as everybody has been raving about him as much as we have about Hughes. Perhaps we should be doing slightly better because of the players we have, but shouldn't Blackburn or Wolves??? They've spent extortionate amounts on players. High price doesn't always guarentee high quality or a favourable outcome. I think your real beef is with Nigel's tactics and motivational skills. We're merely debating the quality of his signings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoungUttoxRam Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Dude can't take anything you or Franco say seriously. 64 posts and Acting like they're chief sausagehole love you too xo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Won't go through it line by line,but overall I think Nigel's signings have been on the good side of average.It's all opinions anyway.On Barker,I'd like to point out that he's a damn good club captain,even when injured,and you can't place a value on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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