BaaLocks

It's a bit like the pile on over on Twitter where John Terry is thanking Roman Abramovich for what he did for Chelsea and getting royally roasted for it. I hope it's short term but if this was an African or Middle Eastern country we were talking about I'm not so sure many would be so quick to just throw the whole country under the bus and many might even question if some are even being a little racist in our reaction. Too little consideration for the difference between Russia and the Soviet Union, too quick to parallel what is happening to times gone by, too quick to believe this is the new Iron Curtain descending. As any Englishman will tell you, the leader is not the country and their actions are not always the will of the people.
Thankfully, many on here have not taken that line - indeed generally it has been the opposite and been very understanding - but social media is a vile space and the fear of cancel culture also seems to suggest that many, like the example you raise, are petrified of being turned on by the Twitterati.

It's a bit like the pile on over on Twitter where John Terry is thanking Roman Abramovich for what he did for Chelsea and getting royally roasted for it. I hope it's short term but if this was an African or Middle Eastern country we were talking about I'm not so sure many would be so quick to just throw the whole country under the bus and many might even question if some are even being a little racist in our reaction. Too little consideration for the difference between Russia and the Soviet Union, too quick to parallel what is happening to times gone by, too quick to believe this is the new Iron Curtain descending. As any Englishman will tell you, the leader is not the country and their actions are not always the will of the people.
Thankfully, many on here have not taken that line - indeed generally it has been the opposite and been very understanding - but social media is a vile space and the fear of cancel culture also seems to suggest that many, like the example you raise, are petrified of being turned on by the Twitterati.

@sage - time for a poll? :-)

It's a bit like the pile on over on Twitter where John Terry is thanking Roman Abramovich for what he did for Chelsea and getting royally roasted for it. I hope it's short term but if this was an African or Middle Eastern country we were talking about I'm not so sure many would be so quick to just throw the whole country under the bus and many might even question if some are even being a little racist in our reaction. Too little consideration for the difference between Russia and the Soviet Union, too quick to parallel what is happening to times gone by, too quick to believe this is the new Iron Curtain descending. As any Englishman will tell you, the leader is not the country and their actions are not always the will of the people.
Thankfully, many on here have not taken that line - indeed generally it has been the opposite and been very understanding - but social media is a vile space and the fear of cancel culture also seems to suggest that many, like the example you raise, are petrified of being turned on by the Twitterati.

Wow Rev, what a story - you could make a movie about that (maybe not the Stoke on Trent bit ?). Truth is that so many of that generation lived these stories, probably some connection between that and the fact we then managed to live in relative peace for their lifetimes.

On Saturday I'm dropping off a car full of supplies to the local Ukrainian centre.
From there, a local Polish owned firm is picking up the gear and delivering it to those who've fled to Poland to shelter, all completely voluntarily. 
Most people, in most countries, and I include Russia in that, are fundamentally decent, not fundamentalists.

I'm not going to say it doesn't happen, but the Polish people's response to the Ukraine refugee crisis has been overwhelmingly accepting. Obviously there will be racist elements in any country - if we had half a million immigrants come here do you think there might be some violence from the far right? - but the Polish people have been welcoming and supportive of the Ukrainians coming to the country. Food, clothing, medicines, medical support, accommodation - all is being given with best intentions. My wife was travelling this week and saw a young Ukrainian man on the plane, nervously looking at his phone. When the stewards realised he was Ukrainian, heading back to his home country to fight, the staff all found what they could to give him to help. This sounds like the reaction of millions of ordinary people across the country. 

@sage - time for a poll? :-)

@sage - time for a poll? :-)

One thing that's pretty annoying is the whole "what does Putin want, why is he doing this"
I think he must have said it a dozen or more times publicly in the last 8 days. 
Why do we have to pretend that he wants to conquer Europe or that we can't figure out what his demands are. 
I'm not saying give him everything he wants. But why is it such a mystery. He's literally said it

This one really annoys me.

Indeed, it's just another layer to it I am afraid. Documentary the other year showed Indian families getting beaten up at Shaktar Donetsk just for being at the game.
Racism is years, nay decades, behind where it is here across most of Central and Eastern Europe and, according to what we saw last night, even when they get to Poland (Ukranian border police are operating a 'ten Ukranians for every 'obvious foreigner'' policy) they are getting chased in the streets by Polish far right thugs who are leaping at the chance of a bit of 'sport'. 
Humans are, in the main, pretty flippin' horrible.

Indeed, it's just another layer to it I am afraid. Documentary the other year showed Indian families getting beaten up at Shaktar Donetsk just for being at the game.
Racism is years, nay decades, behind where it is here across most of Central and Eastern Europe and, according to what we saw last night, even when they get to Poland (Ukranian border police are operating a 'ten Ukranians for every 'obvious foreigner'' policy) they are getting chased in the streets by Polish far right thugs who are leaping at the chance of a bit of 'sport'. 
Humans are, in the main, pretty flippin' horrible.

Indeed, it's just another layer to it I am afraid. Documentary the other year showed Indian families getting beaten up at Shaktar Donetsk just for being at the game.
Racism is years, nay decades, behind where it is here across most of Central and Eastern Europe and, according to what we saw last night, even when they get to Poland (Ukranian border police are operating a 'ten Ukranians for every 'obvious foreigner'' policy) they are getting chased in the streets by Polish far right thugs who are leaping at the chance of a bit of 'sport'. 
Humans are, in the main, pretty flippin' horrible.

Yes, I'd say the same thing. This kind of thread could easily get out of hand as these disagreements are the ones that really hit a nerve and cut close to the bone. Views about wars as well as the 'right' way to live and govern are oftentimes the ones that stir up heated emotions. But so far everyone has been pretty respectful and voiced disagreement in a civil manner from what I've seen. 

Well fair play to the mods, as they must have dealt with stuff quickly and efficiently, as I've not witnessed any posts out of order on those grounds. Everyone currently contributing has been respectful and sensitive to the situation as far as I can see - so the rules seem to be working?
 
 
 

I'm afraid that is a feature, not a bug.

Politics - Toxic

Just got back, haven't read the topic yet but found out 2 members have received temporary post restrictions, and some are trying to derail this into a Johnson v Starmer discussion, resurrecting old feuds that forced us to ban political discussions on this forum. It's not even been a week.
I urge members to think before posting, how others maybe feeling, how your post may upset, anger or frustrate a fellow Ram. 
The Ukraine situation is a sensitive one, we have members on this forum that have been personally affected by the events, we also have no idea how close we could potentially be to a chemical war that would change the world as we know it.
Help us out here, we had enough to concern ourselves with prior to the invasion with the future of our football club at risk, now is not the time to at each others throats.

Because the hypocrisy is exposed - we gave them safe haven over here when they needed to escape the threats of Putin towards the oligarchs and now we are reneging on those promises because the very same person we claimed to be providing safe haven from has gone and actually done something. Oh, and we compromised ourself massively by offering visas, residency and other benefits in return for cold hard cash and party funding.
The story goes that Putin came to power in 2000, when corruption was endemic and the oligarchs were bleeding the state enterprises for billions, he got them all together (yes, images of Spectre or Dr Evil do come to mind) and said something along the lines of "you made your money, now stop, and if you challenge me you will face the consequences". The richest of those oligarchs - Khodorkovsky - didn't heed the warning and ended up in prison in Siberia. Many say that was exactly why Abramovich bought Chelsea and did the playboy bit, he was signalling to Putin openly and directly that his interest was in silly playthings like football teams and not in politics and being a threat to him.
And the UK government lapped it up (read a book called Londongrad if you want - it is beyond amazing how we let this happen. One small example, one oligarch bought an apatrment in central London and it was priced at £940k. He insisted the agent go back and offer £1m because he didn't feel comfortable living in a house that was worth less than a million when all his friends did). Lebedev (who is now in the Louse of Lords) provides the castle that Boris and Carrie use for holidays, Truss and others have been photographed at balls with oligarchs wives and we all know clearly about a certain thing called the Russia Report.
Whoever is the leader of Russia in three / six / nine months time will not forget the Houses of Parliament applauding the Ukranian ambassador, Boris wearing his blue and yellow lapel. We are right to show support for Ukraine, we should be doing more, but in doing so we have exposed ourselves as a 'country' who is prepared to take the money when the going is good and then forget it ever happened at a later date.

Thank you, that was how it was intended and also as response to the previous post about the Russian ambassador in Iceland. But i do appreciate that many are acutely sensitive - with very good reason - so I do reiterate I apologise if I caused offence in any way.

It isn't the Russian peoples fault that they have the equivalent of a Crime boss as their leader, i'm sure
nobody blames the ordinary citizens for any of this - after all, every major decision is made by just one person!

I just wish America and allies came under such intense scrutiny and one sided media reports. 
That's nothing to do with Putin or Ukraine or Russia. It's good to see the world unite against unjustified wars. Hopefully this can apply to other aggressive nations.
"Freedom and Democracy!" my backside. 
Freedom to choose America. Or be killed directly by them or by whoever they arm to fight you. 

OK, if you say so. One comment re: power vacuums - see the back of the Taliban you say?
As for Russia, the gulags shut down long ago. I don't say that political opponents are dealt with most seriously but they have a thing called social media there, public opinion is absolutely out there and we have seen that the last few days. Public opinion is absolutely possible, maybe not via state media but that is known and recognised. It's not a police state but, hey, keep piling on those KGB / FSB driven perceptions if it fits the agenda.

Yup, I can't reply directly to Norman's quotes as I have them on block. Some people are just not worth engaging with and, for me, he/she falls in that category. The reply you quoted reassured me I have made the right decision.