Stive Pesley

I'm just teasing you - it's quite sweet how you keep chipping up to stick up for Max by personally attacking me, and a tad ironic given the topic is about a gay superman ?
 

Conservative MP Sir David Amess stabbed multiple times during a coinstituency surgery.....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58929453
What the hell is happening in this country in recent years? Whatever political leaning he has, what possesses someone to stab a bloke sitting in a church trying to offer his help to his constituents?
We need a wholesale reset in this country where the hatred is reigned in, the constant attempts to create division are called out and the vile verbal attacks are stopped before it's too late and yet another MP dies while doing their job....
 

I'm intrigued as to where you're headed with this one.
Attempting to convince someone that they're dead is quite a bold gambit.

It's pretty dreadful that we've now seen two elected members of parliament murdered carrying out constituency duties in a shortish space of time.
People taking the piss need to take a look at themselves.

Are you willing to accept that there is likely to be an overlap? Probably a venn diagram of a) fans who aren't bothered in the least, plus b) fans who are unhappy because they don't want to read about gays, and c) fans that are unhappy because they consider their "loyalty has been discarded". And probably another subset of  d) fans who are b) but pretending to be c) because "you can't say anything any more without being called a bigot ?
 

So now you're going to play the victim? 
Pathetic. 

Looks like the tory's strategy is starting to work. Just need the government to offer a reduction in national insurance payments for those that are paying into a private health insurance and we'll be well down the slippery slope of no more NHS.

I dunno about that, but I'm starting to suspect that Mrs Wolfie is a grade A prankster and I salute her ?

Your lack of planning is abysmal.

Dry your eyes mate, who cares if some old scutter dies cos they had to wait 18 months for an NHS op. They could have just worked harder and gone private.
The real tragedy is legacy superman fans crying into their camp cosplay outfits because the fictional son of the fiction superman has a fictional bisexual storyline.
It's like people get more wound up about things that are actually made up, than the things that are supposed to be true, but are instead made up.
Anyway, my 11 year old boys were telling me about a kid at a club the other day. They called them Roxy, then Dave. I asked what they meant and they told me that Roxy wants to be a boy so is called Dave now. Didn't care two hoots and just accepted them for what they are. 

This thread sums up everything that is wrong with our country.
Our National Health Service is being privatised without a whimper and yet people are falling out over Superman.
We're ducked.

I fear you’ve not got doctor Who at all then. It was specifically founded in the beginning with the idea that one week he (or she) could go have a fantastical adventure in the future, and the next they could go back in time to some obscure point in history, and be educational. That was specifically the remit of doctor who, to educate as well as entertain. I learned loads about Pakistan that episode. Not entirely sure what was woke about it. 
the reason I’m continuing this discussion is not to merely be belligerent. I’m willing to listen to your point of view. But what annoys me is that people who have a problem with this kind of representation in media may well just want to live their life reading the same stories they always did and not have an agenda forced down their throat. But to me that sounds like they want to stick their head in the sand and pretend the world changing around them isn’t happening. 
They want to remain stuck in a time when gay people remained behind closed doors, where you could use a racial slur without being branded a racist, where Alf garnet was relevant, where white middle classes people could feel safe in their bubble. 
it’s indicative of the world. There’s a great swathe of people that are actively holding the world back from moving forward. 
granted, as a reaction to this, some writers tend to force the issue. And there’s no accounting for just plain bad writing. 
an idea that always amuses me is that the Fox News crowd in America probably like watching films like everyone else, but the vast majority of Hollywood is very left leaning. Absolutely riddled with gays it is. So they must be seething when some left agenda is threaded into an otherwise great movie. 
I’m interested to see how Eternals does, with the first gay superhero in the MCU. If it has a backlash, it’s not because it’s crap, or overly PC, it’s from people who just can’t accept that, out of the many superheroes in the MCU, statistically, one or two are bound to be gay, and that should be represented.
I had a famously close minded mate (no longer a mate), who would revel in conversing about the scene in avengers where all the female superheroes were in the shot and posed for a second. I didn’t get his problem with it. He’s got two daughters like me. ducking girl power, my wife loved it, my daughter loved it. What the hell is not to love.
You might call it positive discrimination, but when a section of society has been under represented for so long, they need to be over represented for a time so that they can get an equal footing. Some may say there should be a balancing shot of all the male superheroes. But male superheroes don’t need the leg up. 
Which brings me back on point. Making the new superman bisexual gives lgbtq some sort of representation even over representation to bring it in the light and help in the effort to normalise it. I know you’re argument is to create a new IP - gay-man or something, flouncing round in his pink spandex like Matt Lucas in a Welsh village, but that would be making it niche and marginalising it again. No one would read that. And again lgbtq ends up in the shadows, in the bargain bucket, a weird little niche thing. 
20, 30, 40 years from now, it will all be completely normal. Surely that’s what we’re aiming for. It could take decades. It will probably require our generation with our stuck in our ways attitudes to die and our kids to takeover (I include me in that, I’m not pretending I don’t have an uncomfortable feeling seeing superman snog a guy, it’s there in me, I can’t deny it, and it probably always will be - but for my daughter it’s 100% accepted as normal and part of life, and I try my best to promote that), but things like this will be where that normalisation started. If no one ever starts it, no change will ever happen.

and on the flipside - no one in the real world without a chip on their shoulder can hear the phrase "white saviour" without being triggered...
even if I take your point at face value, that " by 'reinventing' existing IPs and dramatically changing the content of storylines the existing fanbase enjoys, generally leads to a disgruntled audience followed by cancellation" I still don't really get what you're so bothered about
If anything, you're normally defending the rights to freedom of expression of those being "cancelled" for daring to say what they want to say.
Honestly, does it matter if they lose some readers? It's up to them right? They aren't hurting anyone or impinging on anyone's rights
It just comes across as you're saying it's bad and arguing that - on that basis - they shouldn't do it.
You might want to defend that point - because personally that's what we're getting from your posts
It surely can't be difficult for "defenders of free speech" to understand why people might suspect them of being you know..."a bit right wing" when they defending the rights of Yaxley-Lennon, Farage, Laurence Fox etc to have free speech on things like immigration - but then switch sides when someone as harmless as a sci-fi comic writer reveals a character to be gay, or a trans person wanting to simply live their life in peace asks to be referred to as him/her/they whatever
 
 

and on the flipside - no one in the real world without a chip on their shoulder can hear the phrase "white saviour" without being triggered...
even if I take your point at face value, that " by 'reinventing' existing IPs and dramatically changing the content of storylines the existing fanbase enjoys, generally leads to a disgruntled audience followed by cancellation" I still don't really get what you're so bothered about
If anything, you're normally defending the rights to freedom of expression of those being "cancelled" for daring to say what they want to say.
Honestly, does it matter if they lose some readers? It's up to them right? They aren't hurting anyone or impinging on anyone's rights
It just comes across as you're saying it's bad and arguing that - on that basis - they shouldn't do it.
You might want to defend that point - because personally that's what we're getting from your posts
It surely can't be difficult for "defenders of free speech" to understand why people might suspect them of being you know..."a bit right wing" when they defending the rights of Yaxley-Lennon, Farage, Laurence Fox etc to have free speech on things like immigration - but then switch sides when someone as harmless as a sci-fi comic writer reveals a character to be gay, or a trans person wanting to simply live their life in peace asks to be referred to as him/her/they whatever
 
 

Well the thread was nice while it lasted and everyone was taking it at face value and being inclusive about a publishing company's right to reflect the world around us through realistic character development 
If you see an "agenda" then the problem is between yourself and your own prejudice.
Note that no one will accurately explain what they perceive the "agenda" to be - as to do so would be veering into hate speech
And sure, if some comic book guys don't like it they can stop buying it - that's how a free market works. But again, they have to justify to themselves exactly what it is about a character being gay that they "don't like". 

and on the flipside - no one in the real world without a chip on their shoulder can hear the phrase "white saviour" without being triggered...
even if I take your point at face value, that " by 'reinventing' existing IPs and dramatically changing the content of storylines the existing fanbase enjoys, generally leads to a disgruntled audience followed by cancellation" I still don't really get what you're so bothered about
If anything, you're normally defending the rights to freedom of expression of those being "cancelled" for daring to say what they want to say.
Honestly, does it matter if they lose some readers? It's up to them right? They aren't hurting anyone or impinging on anyone's rights
It just comes across as you're saying it's bad and arguing that - on that basis - they shouldn't do it.
You might want to defend that point - because personally that's what we're getting from your posts
It surely can't be difficult for "defenders of free speech" to understand why people might suspect them of being you know..."a bit right wing" when they defending the rights of Yaxley-Lennon, Farage, Laurence Fox etc to have free speech on things like immigration - but then switch sides when someone as harmless as a sci-fi comic writer reveals a character to be gay, or a trans person wanting to simply live their life in peace asks to be referred to as him/her/they whatever
 
 

I new you’d go with Doctor Who, but it’s failings weren’t with the female doctor, it was with sub par story lines, nothing PC. My daughter loved having a female doctor. No agendas shoved down peoples throats as far as I can remember. The arrow verse didn’t really suffer for putting diversity at the forefront. 
creative people like to break the mould. Superman is literally the mould, the first super hero. Of course the writers are going to take the opportunity to stretch the boundaries and break the mould when uk they get the opportunity, it’s what they do. 
hey, maybe it won’t work, maybe it’s a crap idea, but artists will always be artists. And whether you like it or not, you’re entertainment is in the hands of artists. 
you can either stand still, or move forward. 

See, you just had to go and ruin a perfectly good bicker by introducing FACTS over assumptions!
What were you thinking?  ?
 

Nope. You stated on multiple occasions that the writer 'clearly has an agenda'. I'm stating that you do too. I stand by that opinion.
That much we can agree upon.

So there you have it folks. Inclusivity is an agenda. Addressing climate change, yep, agenda. Fighting for those who can't defend themselves (like Superman saving us from space aliens), mad agenda.
But old men not wanting any of these things addressed in a kids' comic book that they've no intention of reading themselves?
Nope. Definitely no agenda there ?‍♀️
 

So the agenda is to update the character for a new audience and time - clearly laid out, like you said.
Which is what you suggest they should be doing
The fact that you still refer to it as "overly PC content" is a bit of a giveaway though.
Put it this way - if a gay writer had been forced by his publishing house to make his lead gay character straight because "we don't want to hijack our existing audience by dramatically changing it to be something other than what they originally wanted" - would you have written multiple lengthy posts defending his right to freedom of expression?
 
 

Well the thread was nice while it lasted and everyone was taking it at face value and being inclusive about a publishing company's right to reflect the world around us through realistic character development 
If you see an "agenda" then the problem is between yourself and your own prejudice.
Note that no one will accurately explain what they perceive the "agenda" to be - as to do so would be veering into hate speech
And sure, if some comic book guys don't like it they can stop buying it - that's how a free market works. But again, they have to justify to themselves exactly what it is about a character being gay that they "don't like".