Highgate

Is that necessarily the case? It certainly seems to be the received wisdom on the subject, but there are plenty of people who disagree. Certainly it seems that there were many senior figures in the American military at the time who didn't think dropping the bombs was necessary at all.
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-08-05/hiroshima-anniversary-japan-atomic-bombs
Could simple revenge have had something to do with it too after all the pain that Japan had caused the US and others, as well as showing Stalin what weapons the US now had? Given that one of the bombs dropped was plutonium and the other uranium, there was a whiff of weapons testing about the attacks also.
Although obviously the good guys, the allies did commit many war crimes during WWII, it's just that the victors tend not to put themselves on trial in afterwards, not the guys at the top anyway. 
It must be very difficult after atrocities have been committed against you by an enemy to behave ethically during a war.  That's the fear now, while though those who attacked Israeli civilians are clearly enemies and a legitimate target for the IDF, that Israel's response will be completely disproportionate (as well as counter-productive in the long run), and the Palestinian civilians will suffer enormously once more...

It could well be then that there are powerful influences in both Hamas and the Israeli government that are very comfortable with a state of outright war.  That's a very bleak thought. 

It could well be then that there are powerful influences in both Hamas and the Israeli government that are very comfortable with a state of outright war.  That's a very bleak thought. 

Great post, I think this is a great take of Israeli point of view...
 

Thinking about this from a purely Israeli point of view for a moment. The hamas attack was a shocking and horrible crime against their nation. There are very few people that don't think those members of Hamas who carried out the brutal attacks aren't legitimate targets for the IDF. That much seems to make perfect sense. 
There are others who also believe that any measures employed to destroy Hamas itself is now justified. Given that Hamas are attacking from and are dispersed within Gaza, they view a heavy Palestinian civilian death toll as an unfortunate but necessary side effect of Israel defending itself from an enemy of this nature. That's not my view but that's beside the point, many people support this position including, crucially, the US government. 
But just looking at this strategically, and leaving aside the dreadful human and moral implications for now, isn't this another lamentable strategic mistake in the long term? Won't this mass bombing of Gaza, create future generations of Hamas fighters determined to get their revenge when their time comes.  You could of course say it's been the decades of Israeli policy against the Palestinian people that have allowed Hamas to usurp Fatah in the first place.  Surely the bombing of Gaza in the last few days is just going to serve to prolong this war even further, deepen hatreds and actually strengthen Hamas, by guaranteeing them a whole new generation of eager recruits.  Wouldn't Israel have been better off, purely from it's own perspective,  just trying to tighten border security to make sure gangs of Hamas terrorists couldn't ever do something similar again. 

Thinking about this from a purely Israeli point of view for a moment. The hamas attack was a shocking and horrible crime against their nation. There are very few people that don't think those members of Hamas who carried out the brutal attacks aren't legitimate targets for the IDF. That much seems to make perfect sense. 
There are others who also believe that any measures employed to destroy Hamas itself is now justified. Given that Hamas are attacking from and are dispersed within Gaza, they view a heavy Palestinian civilian death toll as an unfortunate but necessary side effect of Israel defending itself from an enemy of this nature. That's not my view but that's beside the point, many people support this position including, crucially, the US government. 
But just looking at this strategically, and leaving aside the dreadful human and moral implications for now, isn't this another lamentable strategic mistake in the long term? Won't this mass bombing of Gaza, create future generations of Hamas fighters determined to get their revenge when their time comes.  You could of course say it's been the decades of Israeli policy against the Palestinian people that have allowed Hamas to usurp Fatah in the first place.  Surely the bombing of Gaza in the last few days is just going to serve to prolong this war even further, deepen hatreds and actually strengthen Hamas, by guaranteeing them a whole new generation of eager recruits.  Wouldn't Israel have been better off, purely from it's own perspective,  just trying to tighten border security to make sure gangs of Hamas terrorists couldn't ever do something similar again. 

Thinking about this from a purely Israeli point of view for a moment. The hamas attack was a shocking and horrible crime against their nation. There are very few people that don't think those members of Hamas who carried out the brutal attacks aren't legitimate targets for the IDF. That much seems to make perfect sense. 
There are others who also believe that any measures employed to destroy Hamas itself is now justified. Given that Hamas are attacking from and are dispersed within Gaza, they view a heavy Palestinian civilian death toll as an unfortunate but necessary side effect of Israel defending itself from an enemy of this nature. That's not my view but that's beside the point, many people support this position including, crucially, the US government. 
But just looking at this strategically, and leaving aside the dreadful human and moral implications for now, isn't this another lamentable strategic mistake in the long term? Won't this mass bombing of Gaza, create future generations of Hamas fighters determined to get their revenge when their time comes.  You could of course say it's been the decades of Israeli policy against the Palestinian people that have allowed Hamas to usurp Fatah in the first place.  Surely the bombing of Gaza in the last few days is just going to serve to prolong this war even further, deepen hatreds and actually strengthen Hamas, by guaranteeing them a whole new generation of eager recruits.  Wouldn't Israel have been better off, purely from it's own perspective,  just trying to tighten border security to make sure gangs of Hamas terrorists couldn't ever do something similar again. 

Probably best to just call it bombing, then?

And I think that problem is that Jews over index in terms of successful people, so non-Jews get bitter and look for conspiracy.
Hisrotically, there were also different to the Christian countries they lived in, so were always outsiders and suffered the same predjudice that different people always have.
Ironically, Jews living within Arab/Muslim countries seemed to suffer much less predjudice. It was our good old Christian ancestors that really didn't seem to like them.

Well, this thread took an unexpected turn. Or am I the only one who didn't know?

Yeah, not really fair to implicate Palestinians in that. Europeans persecuted Jews for centuries, obviously after the Holocaust the idea of a safe homeland for Jewish people seemed like a great idea.  Nobody could deny that Jewish people deserved a safe place to life, free from European violence and hatreds, and their ancient home of Israel seemed like the ideal place to many.  Unfortunately the idea had one problem, that Jewish homeland was already occupied by Palestinians, whose homeland it was too. 
The Israeli-Palestine War of 1948 is like the 'original sin' of this conflict. After which 700,000 Palestinians fled or were expelled, and Israel took more Palestinian land than even it had proposed in it's original plan.  And those parts it left in Palestinian hands ...it's been settling ever since, or like in Gaza, has left and controls like a giant outdoor prison for Palestinians.  People shouldn't be reluctant to use the word 'colonial' when describing Israel's relationship with the Palestinian people. Move settlers in, push natives out or into a second class existence. Any Jew in the world can arrive in Israel and claim citizenship. A Palestinian born in Jerusalem and living in exile has no right to return.  
Worrying trends in Israel recently are the appearance of real extremists and fundamentalists in it's government (people worse than even Netanyahu), the Israel's finance minister who doesn't believe there is any such thing as Palestinians for example.  That and the alarming demographic rise of ultra-orthodox Jews within the state, who already are at nearly 15% and only set to increase. It's very hard to argue with people who believe that God gave Israel to their particular religion and therefore anyone else living there is merely a squatter.  
Some of what I'm saying might sound like an excuse for Hamas' actions.  It's not, all of their murders are unjustified, much of their ideology is vile and they are only succeeding in making the whole situation worse for Palestinians as well as for Israelis. 

Think this pretty much sums it up for me. 
 

Seems perfectly reasonable to me to be a critic of both Israel's entirely unjust and downright colonial treatment of Palestinians since 1948, and a critic of years of Hamas' disgraceful and inhuman attacks on civilians culminating in this latest atrocity. 
I have absolutely no idea how this can get any better...it's always been such a ticking time tomb. 
 
 

Yeah, not really fair to implicate Palestinians in that. Europeans persecuted Jews for centuries, obviously after the Holocaust the idea of a safe homeland for Jewish people seemed like a great idea.  Nobody could deny that Jewish people deserved a safe place to life, free from European violence and hatreds, and their ancient home of Israel seemed like the ideal place to many.  Unfortunately the idea had one problem, that Jewish homeland was already occupied by Palestinians, whose homeland it was too. 
The Israeli-Palestine War of 1948 is like the 'original sin' of this conflict. After which 700,000 Palestinians fled or were expelled, and Israel took more Palestinian land than even it had proposed in it's original plan.  And those parts it left in Palestinian hands ...it's been settling ever since, or like in Gaza, has left and controls like a giant outdoor prison for Palestinians.  People shouldn't be reluctant to use the word 'colonial' when describing Israel's relationship with the Palestinian people. Move settlers in, push natives out or into a second class existence. Any Jew in the world can arrive in Israel and claim citizenship. A Palestinian born in Jerusalem and living in exile has no right to return.  
Worrying trends in Israel recently are the appearance of real extremists and fundamentalists in it's government (people worse than even Netanyahu), the Israel's finance minister who doesn't believe there is any such thing as Palestinians for example.  That and the alarming demographic rise of ultra-orthodox Jews within the state, who already are at nearly 15% and only set to increase. It's very hard to argue with people who believe that God gave Israel to their particular religion and therefore anyone else living there is merely a squatter.  
Some of what I'm saying might sound like an excuse for Hamas' actions.  It's not, all of their murders are unjustified, much of their ideology is vile and they are only succeeding in making the whole situation worse for Palestinians as well as for Israelis. 

@PistoldPete I apologise if I was a bit rude in my "cry Holocaust" comment. I didn't mean it how it came across. Its the most brutal episode of human history and I know how Jews have been treated through history around the world. I do know they need to defend themselves in the Middle East. 
 

Yeah, not really fair to implicate Palestinians in that. Europeans persecuted Jews for centuries, obviously after the Holocaust the idea of a safe homeland for Jewish people seemed like a great idea.  Nobody could deny that Jewish people deserved a safe place to life, free from European violence and hatreds, and their ancient home of Israel seemed like the ideal place to many.  Unfortunately the idea had one problem, that Jewish homeland was already occupied by Palestinians, whose homeland it was too. 
The Israeli-Palestine War of 1948 is like the 'original sin' of this conflict. After which 700,000 Palestinians fled or were expelled, and Israel took more Palestinian land than even it had proposed in it's original plan.  And those parts it left in Palestinian hands ...it's been settling ever since, or like in Gaza, has left and controls like a giant outdoor prison for Palestinians.  People shouldn't be reluctant to use the word 'colonial' when describing Israel's relationship with the Palestinian people. Move settlers in, push natives out or into a second class existence. Any Jew in the world can arrive in Israel and claim citizenship. A Palestinian born in Jerusalem and living in exile has no right to return.  
Worrying trends in Israel recently are the appearance of real extremists and fundamentalists in it's government (people worse than even Netanyahu), the Israel's finance minister who doesn't believe there is any such thing as Palestinians for example.  That and the alarming demographic rise of ultra-orthodox Jews within the state, who already are at nearly 15% and only set to increase. It's very hard to argue with people who believe that God gave Israel to their particular religion and therefore anyone else living there is merely a squatter.  
Some of what I'm saying might sound like an excuse for Hamas' actions.  It's not, all of their murders are unjustified, much of their ideology is vile and they are only succeeding in making the whole situation worse for Palestinians as well as for Israelis. 

Religion is only part of it, though. You've got Jews who aren't religious, you've got Palestinians who just want their land returned. It's now more about nationalism than religion, much as the troubles in Northern Ireland are about catholic vs protestant, but very much about national identity and not really about religion. 
These lands were home for Arab Muslims and Jews for thousands of years. Colonisation is correct, but an aggressive colonisation by a hugely superior military. 

Yuval Harari, who seems like a trustworthy source and who is an outspoken critic of the Israeli government, has spoken about how his own aunt and uncle hid in their homes while gangs of Hamas members went from door to door killing whole families in their village.  The indiscriminate murder of large numbers of innocent Israeli civilians by Hamas seems to be beyond doubt at this stage. 
The fear now is how many innocent Palestinians will be killed in the overwhelming response.  

Seems perfectly reasonable to me to be a critic of both Israel's entirely unjust and downright colonial treatment of Palestinians since 1948, and a critic of years of Hamas' disgraceful and inhuman attacks on civilians culminating in this latest atrocity. 
I have absolutely no idea how this can get any better...it's always been such a ticking time tomb. 
 
 

…. and it’s for that reason you had no choice but to resign as Head of Tourism for Derby City Council.

Seems perfectly reasonable to me to be a critic of both Israel's entirely unjust and downright colonial treatment of Palestinians since 1948, and a critic of years of Hamas' disgraceful and inhuman attacks on civilians culminating in this latest atrocity. 
I have absolutely no idea how this can get any better...it's always been such a ticking time tomb. 
 
 

Seems perfectly reasonable to me to be a critic of both Israel's entirely unjust and downright colonial treatment of Palestinians since 1948, and a critic of years of Hamas' disgraceful and inhuman attacks on civilians culminating in this latest atrocity. 
I have absolutely no idea how this can get any better...it's always been such a ticking time tomb. 
 
 

Removing all vetoes from Security Council members would be a necessary first step

Seems perfectly reasonable to me to be a critic of both Israel's entirely unjust and downright colonial treatment of Palestinians since 1948, and a critic of years of Hamas' disgraceful and inhuman attacks on civilians culminating in this latest atrocity. 
I have absolutely no idea how this can get any better...it's always been such a ticking time tomb. 
 
 

Seems perfectly reasonable to me to be a critic of both Israel's entirely unjust and downright colonial treatment of Palestinians since 1948, and a critic of years of Hamas' disgraceful and inhuman attacks on civilians culminating in this latest atrocity. 
I have absolutely no idea how this can get any better...it's always been such a ticking time tomb.