RAM1966

4 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

Don’t think we’ll get rid of Warne but if we don’t finish in the top 6 he should be sent packing before the refs finished blowing the final whistle. 
 

No improvement on last year would be abject failure. 

Cant see us making top 10 with these poir performances...

10 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

Jesus wept why don’t you be purposely more obtuse? I said been to the prem. I didn’t say smashing it. I’d expect a 1 year stint. 
 

He took us from 20th to 10th over 4 full seasons anyone who doesn’t recognise that being the correct trajectory ought to get back to infant school maths lessons. I suspect it’d have taken 2 more years to be challenging for the play offs. 

The facts are there, a 10 place improvement in 4 seasons, lets have another statue outside the ground!

Schteve took that team and made the play-offs by be being more direct and playing attractive attacking football.  

Clough is too negative and doesn't have that in the locker, which is why hes in League 2, its where he belongs!

11 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

 

Backroom staff (Assistant coach) at Manure....

15 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

Did Clough play negative football at times? Absolutely. 
 

I remember us 1 up 30 mins into a game, we had the ball, thier keeper was well off his line and out of the box.  Coutts ran the ball to the corner flag to waste time at home with an hour of football still to play, rather than shooting at distance at an open goal. 

Clough stood on the sidelines clapping, that summed up his lack of ambition and his negativity.  Thats why attendances dropped, not fickle fans, just ones who could not believe a team at home would be wasting time rather than take a shot at an open goal....

2 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

No - I think we’ve moved on as a club and he’s moved on as a manager. I think we face a different challenge in that we have one of the biggest budgets in the division and are underperforming based on that. He was successful (in my opinion) at outperforming our budget when we were the underdogs. Two different challenges. 

At least we agree on that, if we are going to replace Warne, which Im not sure we can aford to do.  It has to be Warnock, I know his football isnt the best, but, he's suceeded nearly everwhere he's been!  If we its not going to be the most entertaining, at least make sure we win!

2 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

Recognising that he did a brilliant job under touch circumstances whilst admitting he had his faults in terms of his negativity is not an obsession. It’s just not allowing fans like you to rewrite history to ignore the job he did for us. 20th to 10th whilst slashing the budget. 

Would you have him back now?

16 minutes ago, Foreveram said:

In his fourth season in league two with Mansfield.

Agreed, this obsession with Clough is rediculous, his Father was a genious (With Taylor at his side, not so great without him), so was Darren Ferguson's neither of those facts make the sons oustanding managers.

Clough has two major faults, firstly he's too negative.  Secondly he seens only capable of motivating his teams to beat clubs he has a beef with.

If he was as great as many die hard Clough lovers claim, why hasn't he been snapped up by a lower half EPL club.  The answer is simple, Clough is at his level!!!!

14 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

Clough was working under the mindset that we needed to stay in the division first, aim for promotion second, whilst decimating the budget year on year. Did a fantastic job over his time here and some of the attacking football we played at times was as good as anything served up by Mac, it’s just Mac served it up a lot more often and Clough was very very quick to revert back to defensive play whenever things got a bit tough. 
 

Remember the year Southampton went up we were top with them after 4 straight wins at the start of the season playing excellent football. Then a tough run of games happened and he reverted back to dragging ourselves to 50 points. 
 

Tired of the disrespect shown to our most important manager since Jim Smith. 

We have very different recollections, Clough served up negative terrible football, he's happy not to lose,  I don't spend my hard earmed on hoping for a draw.  His father said he had no ambition and he was right.

I was close to giving up my Season Ticket under his stewardship.....  The crowds dropped massively during his time, says it all really!!!!

1 hour ago, jameso said:

Wouldn’t it be Stevie Mac part 4 though (or did I dream one of his managerial stints)?

2 as a manager, one as Rooney's DOF, I'm going for Part 3 as the manager..... 

Before you slate me, Clough had a talented team, he was too negative, Stevie Mac turned us into an attacking outfit overnight!!!!  That's not the issue with Warne as we were camped in their half for large spells of the game, that said I was bored stiff today, just like Cloughs football. 

I felt like going home at HT, I stayed obviously, the footie got worse not better, we just can not seem to brake teams down that come for a draw!

Stevie Mac part 3 anyone?  The football was never boring, it had us on the edge of our seats............ 

4 minutes ago, Loughborough Ram said:

Let's not put all the blame on Paul Jewell, the poison dwarf, Billy 'f***in' Davies, set the whole s**t show on the road. He bought Claude Davies and Eddie Lewis, among others, before a ball had been kicked.

Don't forget Kenny I couldn't hit a barn door Miller.....

1 hour ago, Brailsford Ram said:

Mel's ego was his downfall. He knew nothing about football but tried to bluff his way through and pretend that he did; his folly almost cost us the very existence of our football club. He knows now that he is a busted flush in the football world and thankfully we won't be hearing from him again.

As for Warnock, in the football world, he's like Marmite. When Derby played against his sides, we hated him but would we have done so if he had become our manager? I doubt it; I think we'd have loved him for his energy and enthusiasm and certainly if he'd come here in 2016 and got us promoted as he did for Cardiff. Who knows if he'd done that we might have never ended up in administration? But Mel knew best.

Remember also that Warnock was perceptive enough, like Mick McCarthy, to turn down down Fawaz who wanted him to replace Billy Davies at Forest because Warnock said that the offer didn't make sense.

Warnock was a winger who made his League debut for Chesterfield in 1967. Fifty-six years later he's still in football. How many could do that without having a lot of talent? He retired from playing in the EFL at Crewe and joined Burton Albion in the NPL where he played alongside Kevin Hector and Ian Storey-Moore. He waxes lyrical about that in his autobiography and tells you of what an honour it was to play with such legends who were still at the end of their great careers but the best players he ever played with.

I met him away from the football field and found him just a refreshing and enthusiastic personality who loved and lived for football. I wish now that Mel had chosen him instead of Pearson or Rowett in 2016; our recent history might have been very much better. I think that Warnock chose the right career. He achieved far more in football than he would have in merchant banking and really in football terms, he shouldn't be mentioned alongside Mel Morris. Just my opinion though but I still wish we'd have given him a try.

100% bang on!

3 hours ago, Brailsford Ram said:

He and Rowett were interviewed when Pearson got the job.When asked, why he should get the job he said because it would guarantee Derby promotion to the Premier League. He then opened his phone and went through the leaders in the betting for the vacancy and quickly wrote off the other contenders. He was ruthless and dismissive in what he said about them. Mel then came to the conclusion that the entire football world had reached years before; Colin was too outspoken! Mel did not feel that they would get on!

Rowett was still at Birmingham at the time but was desperate for the Derby job and had been led to believe that if he came for an interview he would be the chosen one. He attended without telling Birmingham. When he asked for feedback, he was told that he had a really good interview but Pearson had an outstanding one and answered every question perfectly. Mel believed that he and Pearson were a perfect fit for each other!

Warnock had just left Rotherham after keeping them in the Championship and presiding over the 3-3 comeback against us at home. He went next to Cardiff where he became the first manager to achieve eight promotions, overtaking us and taking Cardiff to the Premier League.

The source of this information was on the interview panel.

 

Mel couldn't cope with a larger ego than his own.  A pity, he could of sold a EPL club rather than placing us in admin....  Now the crowd sing that they are both Merchant Bankers....

5 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

The number of threads about Warne is getting a little tedious now but I seriously doubt any of the management team visit this forum and therefore don’t think another poll on this site will place any more pressure on them.

Clubs do monitor forums, Gadsby and Moris have threatened to take legal actions over comments made on them.

Warne may not personally, but, Im sure the level of mood music is passed on, especially when we are not doing well.

I have every faith he will get up promoted, even with this stule of football.  I seriously doubt it will cut the mustard in the Championship though, which is where he will need to show his adaptability....

Onwards and upwards....

He's staying, pointless holding polls, all we are doing is placing further unnecessary pressure on the management team.

Am I enjoying the style of play?  No, will it be effective to get us out of this Division?  Only time will tell, he has a track record of success gaining 3 promotions.  I say let him get us up, then DC needs to have a serious talk about playing style and if its going to be more of the same, DC should than him for getting us up and pay his contract up.

For now lets get behind him, win our game in hand and on Sat we could well be in the playoff spots.  Its a results business and we have to remember the players at this level are going to make mistakes!

On 04/09/2023 at 18:48, Tyler Durden said:

Where did you get that from?

I've read articles saying that we didn't apply for the loan as we wouldn't have passed the eligibility criteria i.e. we couldn't demonstrate how the loan would have been repaid.

Is that the EFLs fault or ours?

The reason Mel didn't apply we would of had to of had the accounts filed our 'up-to-date' accounts at companies house as a condition. 

The EFL were only going to loan clubs the money if they were seen to be on a sound enough financial footing to repay the loan, clearly we wouldn't have been, due to reckless spending.  Mel knew there was no chance of the loan....

9 hours ago, The Last Post said:

MM sold his dating site for a few million, Then bought into "Candy Crush" sound advice or good fortune?, Multi millionaires/Billionaires will all have advisors to channel money in the right direction, They might have even been told by those who talk about "sound financial planning" that it's time to pull the plug on DCFC, Unless you were at his table when this sound advice was or wasn't given then you're like every other poster on here...we get it from the press and social media, Or if lucky from a 3rd party that is ITK, It's for those to sort out the wheat for the BS to come to a conclusion.

The man who pays the piper gets to call the tune, Steven Pearce was the accountant and Steven Pearce was told what to do and what not to do, MM through his tenure not only reigned in the money he also made several attempts to sell to some very unscrupulous people, Then he put DCFC into Admin as his money tree had shed a fortune...you say you don't buy into Covid, Then go on to say maybe Covid bought it a little quicker...so Covid had an effect.

Again it doesn't detract that he forgave 10 of millions of £s, Paid off the Curley one which enabled Clowes to purchase DCFC

How many clubs ended up in Admin and nearly going under due to Covid? 

7 hours ago, ram59 said:

Like many things in life, MM definitely was not perfect but he was also not unlike many other owners trying to get their clubs to the premier. The way it ended, I couldn't forgive him for letting us go into admin, even though nobody could have foreseen an event like covid and the effect that it had on the club's finances.

But those claiming that he was the only owner playing fast and loose with the rules, are just wrong. Yes, he tried to 'bend' the rules, the same rules that clubs like Villa, QPR, Bournemouth, Brighton, Wolves, Watford etc shattered, but got away with it by getting promoted. MM's crime was not getting promotion, close but not quite there. After all, the amortisation rule didn't actually come in until years after we supposed to have committed it. He should stuck it out and fought that ruling, had he stuck it out we wouldn't have entered admin either and we'd still be in the championship, that, I can't forgive. Regarding the ownership of the ground, there are quite a few clubs who don't own their own ground. Brighton, who seem to be everyone's idea of the perfect club, don't own their own ground. The club's owner owns the ground and charges the club a peppercorn rent, with the company owning the ground getting deeper and deeper into debt, owing nearly £200m when I last looked. My local team, Blues have been playing with only 2 stands open for a few years now because their recent owner wouldn't stump up the cash for repairs. WBA's owner has took money out of the club and hasn't paid it back. What's going on at Reading and then there's the situation with the company owning Peterborough's ground, just to name a few.

MM wasn't perfect and we seem to have suffered more than virtually every other set of fans except Bury, but to claim that he's out there on his own, is simply untrue.

The reason MM sold the ground to himself was through piss poor management.  He signed players on over inflated fees and wages.  Selling the ground to himself was a work arounf FFP.  In the end he used the ground to get a chunk of money he should have left with the club to clear yhe debts that he caused through reckless overspending!

2 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

No it doesn't. If most clubs in this league haven't paid a fee it shows you can get players in at this level without a large initial outlay. But as I said who paid how much?

As I've already said I haven't a clue, I've  not followed it.  If you knoe the answer please enlighten me... 🤔

15 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

Mel was awful in the circumstances. But the number one cause of our plight is FFP. If that never came into light, we wouldn’t have needed to try and get around the rules to financially compete with parachute payment clubs.

I’m not a fan of Mel. But on the face of it, all he did was plough loads of his own money into the club he loved and naively thought that would be enough to get us promoted. 

The way we spent the money was just ridiculous. Clueless. But was that Mel’s fault or those spending his money?

When you look at the spend in today’s market. How do you spend £25m+ in fees like we did in 2015/16 and actually get worse? I’m convinced Derby, Everton and Man Utd are the three worst spenders in English football over the past decade. 

He didn't plough if of his money in though to clear the debts, he sold the ground to himself, holding the only asset left.  He's lucky Clowes was feeling charitable or we would if ended up a pheonix club, with Ashley buy the ground for 🥜 

9 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Would you have paid a fee for Bradley, Elder et al?! 

Or then maybe the free that were around would have been good enough to pay big wages too?

Who has paid 'big money' in this league then mate?

TBH Ive not paid too much attention to fees paid by other clubs, the fact we've not paid a fee at all suggests we are still on a tight rope.  I applaud DC for his approach, we need to build firm foundations and build from there. 

I'd rather spend another season or 3 in this league, building a squad through a mixture of home grown talent and shrewd feebies than go down the Charlatan route.  This could mean 3 or even 4 seasons, rather than go up and get 11 points like we did in the EPL.

3 hours ago, The Last Post said:

I'm not disputing that, He's a fan and perhaps emotions took over reality...I do not know, He's in it for around £50million, Stadium, Moor Farm, DCFC et al will recoup a big chunk if not profit, If we get promoted this season the value will be higher... Mike Ashley was/could have been an alternative.

The OP can't have it all his own way without knowing MM lost money on his journey when buying DCFC, For me, He purchased DCFC in the hope of getting to the EPL and then sell at a healthy profit, Covid got in the way and the rest is history, He's still a very wealthy man.

MM like many owners, ignored sound financial planning that got him where he was when he bought DCFC.  I do not buy covid, he was already reigning in spending.  Maybe covid brought it to a head a little quicker, but we were only going one way.  Mel spunked 💰 like an 18 year old kid whose Grandmother left them a small fortune!!!!

31 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Well you tell that to David Clowes who said that Paul Warne has a budget good enough for promotion from this league.

Hes hardly going to say to the fans we haven't got a pot to piss in is he?  How many players have we paid a fee for? 🤔 

13 hours ago, WystonRam said:

Frank Lampard has a large slice of blame too. I’ll never understand his Wembley line up and how that probably cost us a very good chance to go up 

100% spot on!!!!!

4 minutes ago, 8Leeds said:

That’s the part that has always confused me, Paul had a set style, he never budged from it unless really forced to like he had to last year with the injuries and realising he also didn’t have what he needed to do things his way, so far, adaptable isn’t a word I’d use to describe him. 

You’d of thought the due diligence would have been done on Paul’s style before hand and assessed against our squad. 

This isn’t a knock on David Clowes, I believe every decision he’ll ever make as our chairman will always be with the club and fans best interest at heart but Liam’s proving himself to at least be a championship quality manager, Paul hasn’t done that yet and I can’t help feel like we let one get away there. 

TBF to both DC & PW, Hull were established and we had been completely decimated.  I think a rebuild can not be expected in one season.  We also have to keep a tight reign on the finances for 2 reasons, firstly we are under a BP.  Secondly, I feel that DC will be keen to at least break even as he's invested double what he wanted too.

I think we may have to temper our expectations....