Jump to content

Enough

RAMSINCE1969

By RAMSINCE1969
in Derby County Forum

Who have you had enough of?  

109 members have voted

You do not have permission to vote in this poll, or see the poll results. Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 449
  • Created
  • Last Reply
Ramarena

Ramarena

Posted
Posted

When he's had DECENT money to spend he's bought well. Barker Shackell for instance. But then he's had to by average players or young risky players cause they will b cheap. Glicks lied to him and us. I honestly think if clough was given the green light to sign a striker for 2-3 mil he wouldn't of bothered with Tyson or McGuire. During cloughs tenure he has had to sell to raise most transfer money ie rob hulse £750,000 that paid for ward and Robinson if u like. Commons £450,000 paid for fielding. He had to sell those two goalscorers cause wages were too high. So he's had to sell two PROVEN goalscorers to make funds available for other areas needing tweaking. The board are pathetic

So what your saying is that Clough is a cheque book manager who needs plenty of money to succeed. The goalposts keep moving.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bris Vegas

Bris Vegas

Posted
Posted

I agree with him Bris.

He has gone through each signing that you have been critical over and justified each and every one. No positive spin, just FACTS.

No one has claimed Clough is a world beater, no one has suggested he is a miracle worker. No one has suggested he has signed top players. All he has tried to do is rid the club of it's high earners replacing them with a few good reliable championship players whilst having to take a gamble on a few lower league players.

The fact that he has managed to maintain our league position is credit to him yet you seem to think that we should have enhanced our league position. Is that what happens in business? If you strip a company of it's supposed top well paid staff and replace them with very inexpensive ones they suddenly peform better?!

Again, go through the list and tell me what players you would have kept.. I'd fully understand if we'd lost the calibre of player Reading have over the past few years (Sidwell, Harper, Shorey, Sonko, Bikey, Long, Doyle, Hunt, Convey, Matejovski, Sigurdsson, Hannemhan, Kitson, Lita, Little and Matt Mills etc.) but we haven't.. Out of all our fantastic players only Commons, Hulse and Mears have gone on to better things..

Seriously, stop playing the Clough wage bill hard done by card, those players were ****..

Oh and Reading made about $40mill off that lot and invested less than 10% of it on new players.. Less than Clough has spent.

Fact is we've lost 5 on the bounce, playing dull awful football with no vision and are more likely to go down than reach the playoffs under this management..

But please keep up your optimism, you and RotherhamRam are great posters

Link to comment
Share on other sites
bcnram

bcnram

Posted
Posted

Again, go through the list and tell me what players you would have kept.. I'd fully understand if we'd lost the calibre of player Reading have over the past few years (Sidwell, Harper, Shorey, Sonko, Bikey, Long, Doyle, Hunt, Convey, Matejovski, Sigurdsson, Hannemhan, Kitson, Lita, Little and Matt Mills etc.) but we haven't.. Out of all our fantastic players only Commons, Hulse and Mears have gone on to better things..

Seriously, stop playing the Clough wage bill hard done by card, those players were ****..

Oh and Reading made about $40mill off that lot and invested less than 10% of it on new players.. Less than Clough has spent.

Fact is we've lost 5 on the bounce, playing dull awful football with no vision and are more likely to go down than reach the playoffs under this management..

But please keep up your optimism, you and RotherhamRam are great posters

I understand your negativity but isn't the case that Reading had a lot of very good players to sell, whereas NC had a bunch of hugely overpaid dross that were more difficult to move on, and because of the crazy wages they were on we had to pay contracts off just to move them.

isn't it easier to get a good price for a commodity that is in demand than an overpriced product that is surplus to requirements (that's how it works in my biz anyway).

Link to comment
Share on other sites
GboroRam

GboroRam

Posted
Posted

Easy or difficult, most of it is sold now. Whether or not "real" money got added to the funds drawn down from the sales of those players, we've spent a reasonable amount on the players we've got.

I don't think the manager is getting the best out of a reasonable side. I don't like the style of football we're having drilled into us. Part of me thinks I'd like to see more money available, but part of me doesn't want to see us become a chequebook club, buying £1m players for every position in the team (because, when given a decent amount of money, such as £1m, Clough can buy a good player - how many managers in this division would assemble a good team if they were allowed to spend £1m per position?)

Anyway, neither Clough or the current owners seem to be a positive influence on the team, but I think realistically there's only one of them that could be changed - and co-incidentally, it seems to be the one that a change can have a short-term influence on results and performances.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
mcsilks

mcsilks

Posted
Posted

Again, go through the list and tell me what players you would have kept.. I'd fully understand if we'd lost the calibre of player Reading have over the past few years (Sidwell, Harper, Shorey, Sonko, Bikey, Long, Doyle, Hunt, Convey, Matejovski, Sigurdsson, Hannemhan, Kitson, Lita, Little and Matt Mills etc.) but we haven't.. Out of all our fantastic players only Commons, Hulse and Mears have gone on to better things..

Seriously, stop playing the Clough wage bill hard done by card, those players were ****..

Oh and Reading made about $40mill off that lot and invested less than 10% of it on new players.. Less than Clough has spent.

Fact is we've lost 5 on the bounce, playing dull awful football with no vision and are more likely to go down than reach the playoffs under this management..

But please keep up your optimism, you and RotherhamRam are great posters

I don't understand why you are asking who I would have kept. What does that add to the debate? Clough got rid because they were high earners. That was his remit. Too rid the club of the high earners while trying to maintain our league position.

He inherited a terrible group of overpaid players, very few of whom he could realistically sell. He did what he could moving them on and was forced to pay a few of them off. He then replaced them with cheaper options.

Looking at the list just enhances the point which I have made in that Clough has done a very good job in the transfer market. He has even brought in from non league and those players have won man of the match awards and scored winning goals. Yet you have still found time to be critical of those players.

Answer this one then Bris.

Is Derby County in a better position than when Clough took over?

In my mind it is a whole hearted yes. We have some good youngsters, our wage bill is sustainable and our injury crisis (and it really was a crisis) is improving.

He has done a good job. Not a great one. But a good one.

He has brought in some good players. Not great ones. But good ones (in relation to what he has had to shop with)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
RotherhamRam

RotherhamRam

Posted
Posted

So what your saying is that Clough is a cheque book manager who needs plenty of money to succeed. The goalposts keep moving.

That makes no sense, what he is saying and you know this just trying to make a cheap shot. He is saying Clough has had to cut wages players will not take wage cuts just like any other employer and has to make the choice of selling proven goal scorers and then has to wheel and deal with the available funds. He knows who has to go whether he has a choice or not in some respects because of wages etc also to tweak other areas sometimes has to sell players. It is the old thing find funds to buy players. Someone mentioned O'Neil earlier sorry to say he left Villa for this very reason has he had no funds and players were having to be sold to balance books.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bris Vegas

Bris Vegas

Posted
Posted

Answer this one then Bris.

Is Derby County in a better position than when Clough took over?

If you'd asked me 2 summers ago I'd most certainly ha said yes.. Clough had won me over then and I thought he'd done a good job (save us from relegation followed by a 14th place finish)

Last season I thought he'd push on, and he did, up until Xmas time.. And from that moment on, when he changed a winning team and resorted back to that awful football you and Rotherham seem to think is good I knew he was never going to push us on.. From Christmas of last season we've gon horribly backwards and I jus don't see it changing..

I'd give Clough a mark of 8.5/10 from when he walked through the door in Jan 2009 to to the Xmas of 2010.. He starved off relegation, lowered the wage bill and got us playing some good attractive attacking football..

But in December 2010 he changed a winning formula and his stubborness started to show.. The remainder of the 2010/11 season and now (basically the past year) I'd give him a 3/10.. So many tactical changes, no vision for the future, dire football, fallouts with players, delusional media comments, poor signings in the summer and the failure to sign a striker/creative midfielder and a terrible win % in 2011.. He's taken us backwards in 2011, and it's not going to get any better..

I say thankyou very much Clough but it's time for a fresh approach.. We're not going to go up under his management, we're going backwards under him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
mcsilks

mcsilks

Posted
Posted

If you'd asked me 2 summers ago I'd most certainly ha said yes.. Clough had won me over then and I thought he'd done a good job (save us from relegation followed by a 14th place finish)

Last season I thought he'd push on, and he did, up until Xmas time.. And from that moment on, when he changed a winning team and resorted back to that awful football you and Rotherham seem to think is good I knew he was never going to push us on.. From Christmas of last season we've gon horribly backwards and I jus don't see it changing..

I'd give Clough a mark of 8.5/10 from when he walked through the door in Jan 2009 to to the Xmas of 2010.. He starved off relegation, lowered the wage bill and got us playing some good attractive attacking football..

But in December 2010 he changed a winning formula and his stubborness started to show.. The remainder of the 2010/11 season and now (basically the past year) I'd give him a 3/10.. So many tactical changes, no vision for the future, dire football, fallouts with players, delusional media comments, poor signings in the summer and the failure to sign a striker/creative midfielder and a terrible win % in 2011.. He's taken us backwards in 2011, and it's not going to get any better..

I say thankyou very much Clough but it's time for a fresh approach.. We're not going to go up under his management, we're going backwards under him.

Where/When have I said that?

I think you are telling porky pies again Bris to suit your view. Can you please stop doing this. You have been told so many times.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ramarena

Ramarena

Posted
Posted

That makes no sense, what he is saying and you know this just trying to make a cheap shot. He is saying Clough has had to cut wages players will not take wage cuts just like any other employer and has to make the choice of selling proven goal scorers and then has to wheel and deal with the available funds. He knows who has to go whether he has a choice or not in some respects because of wages etc also to tweak other areas sometimes has to sell players. It is the old thing find funds to buy players. Someone mentioned O'Neil earlier sorry to say he left Villa for this very reason has he had no funds and players were having to be sold to balance books.

I think you miss the point. No-one was denying that he has had to manage a budget. Strangely enough that's what all managers have to do.

The original point was made to a poster who was saying Clough should be given more money. Why? Can he only succeed when he is spending larger sums of money? (hence the chequebook manager comment). I would prefer to have a manager who can work within the budget given and make the most of the budget given instead of casting aside expensive club assets. The best managers make the most of all their resources no matter how limited the budget.

He was given a budget when he was wrongly appointed as manager. And he will have been given a budget when he signed his new contract. If he was not happy with the budget why sign up?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
smiffy

smiffy

Posted
Posted

He was given a budget when he was wrongly appointed as manager. And he will have been given a budget when he signed his new contract. If he was not happy with the budget why sign up?

Yeah, they dont seem to want to answer this one pal.

If he is happy with the terms, then low budget is [size=6]NO[/size] excuse.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
RotherhamRam

RotherhamRam

Posted
Posted

Yeah, they dont seem to want to answer this one pal.

If he is happy with the terms, then low budget is [size=6]NO[/size] excuse.

Ok then the question is would you like to be out of a job. On your argument joe bloggs on the street who manages a department store for example is given a budget which he knows is practically unreasonable to do the job on but has a family to support and needs to work as any of us out there should basically turn the job down and go on benefits and say feck off to all their outgoings and risk their family being made homeless living of the state. Stop being daft. The last manager for example to say that was Mark Robbins at Barnsley when he was given his budget for this forthcoming season and he is a respected manager but who is he managing now. No one. He should have got the job at Cardiff but they went for the manager at Watford, Watford have stuck with their assistant manager at the time.

Clough's contract was up at the end of the season, he signed a new one or look for another job where there is no guarantess so at the end of the day if they pay him the money and by the sounds he too is paid lowly compared to other managers would you accept the contract or hope to get another job somewhere else?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
mcsilks

mcsilks

Posted
Posted

Yeah, they dont seem to want to answer this one pal.

If he is happy with the terms, then low budget is [size=6]NO[/size] excuse.

Because it's a ridiculous question. He has signed up because he recognises that the board are trying to make the club financially sustainable. He has made comments in which he suggests he is frustrated with the lack of investement but he is an incredibly loyal manager who wants to put the interests of the club first.

We are lucky to have him and we will all see that when the financial world comes crashing down on the other clubs an we are there in a stable position.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...