curb Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Cywka, already debated and you've decided has done nothing to earn his place since Clough destroyed him last season and hasn't gave him a proper run of games in the side since. Leacock, have you forgotten his contribution to a team that won promotion a few years ago? Fit and motivated he would be as good as Barker or Shackell, the money spent on either of them could have been used to buy and pay the wages of the striker you so desire. Remember also the contribution of Bywater? Not the best keeper in the world, but reasonable enough to win us promotion, why was he dissafected? We don't really know, but I'll bet Clough was central to it, or if not central to it should have nipped it in the bud. maybe he was annoyed at how Leacock was treated and things went from bad to worse because of Clough's stubbornness, there's Fielding's wages saved, wages that could have been used for your decent striker, one who could bring that midfield playmaker we just bought into the game, the list goes on and on, why buy Croft, Martin, Maguire if you're never going to use them? There's your decent left back and cover for right back so we don't have to use a midfielder there, limiting our choices for changing the midfield round even more when it becomes disfunctional. Never mind, you've already had the debate with yourself and decided for us all that Clough can do no wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 a key point, frees are not free, one has to wonder why sign tyson as a main man when he has scored 4 in 75 appearances and was constantly injured? it shows a miscalculation of the highest order. Also signing all of these cheap players actually costs a lot in the end, martin we paid 250k for, maguire 500k for, did we pay anything for cywka? well that is 750k just sitting there wasting away, the wages watsed on buxton, pringle, martin, tyson, deeney and so many more could have contributed to better players coming in. I know your a big clough fan RR, but a lot of these decisions are inept and unacceptable at this level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Teale Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Yes I have they all have good strikers and a midfielder that runs the game. The strikers play a big role as they move the defenders around the pitch allowing midfielders to utilise the space. Their midfield has one that can break up games and then move the team around. Something at present we don't have. This then allows general play to improve. How many times have teams picked the lock against us because of their strikers and the midfielder. I think your doing them teams great diservice, they dont just have one good forward and one good midfield player that moves players around, they have a whole team of players and a style that the manager impliments that allows them to do it. We are not two good players from being a good team. Lets face it the money clough has had to spend he has spent the big money on the defence, he could have chosen to spend for example the money from Barker or Shackall on a forward or midfield player. There always seems to be an excuse. I hope he turns it around but I dont believe he will as I dont believe he is up to the task. Good in the transfer market, but the team is unorganised at the back, rigid and lacks flair up front and he doesnt and hasnt got the best out of players at his disposal. For me he doesnt give the players the freedom or confidence to play to the best of there abilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CumbrianRam Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Why does Clough not try Leacock instead of Roberts and swallow his pride Did you see Leacock at RB? It will be much worse at LB! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 i mean ben davies is a waste of money, cannot beat a man and his deliveries have been getting worse, clough signs form players that is the problem in the main. They cannot keep it going over a period of time, am I the only one who thinks barker is not as good as he used to be? roberts average? again what have you been smoking, the guy is consistently out of position, cannot pass well, cannot cross well what does he bring? croft again brings nothing. Ward does well but goes out of the game in the second half, theo i am divided on, bailey am not a massive fan of, the more i see him the more i think very average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 a key point, frees are not free, one has to wonder why sign tyson as a main man when he has scored 4 in 75 appearances and was constantly injured? it shows a miscalculation of the highest order. Also signing all of these cheap players actually costs a lot in the end, martin we paid 250k for, maguire 500k for, did we pay anything for cywka? well that is 750k just sitting there wasting away, the wages watsed on buxton, pringle, martin, tyson, deeney and so many more could have contributed to better players coming in. I know your a big clough fan RR, but a lot of these decisions are inept and unacceptable at this level. Martin was only 100k and Maguire was 400k. Total of 500k, not 750k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Martin was only 100k and Maguire was 400k. Total of 500k, not 750k I am quoting radio derby figures, please prove yours. Maguire was 475k i know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 I would like to discuss the signings you have mentioned and remind people why signed at the time and possibly why they were signed. Croft at the time was wanted by a number of Championship Clubs and fans including us, Started well but then he let it all go. This summer started to look good was well worth a start at beginning of the season and his defensive side had improved but got injured. He was a free signing and cost us little. Tyson he has something that not one player had in the team last season and that is speed and I have to say I was happy to see him come as it will add a dimmension to the team but can understand why people are upset because of injuries. However I think a lot of it is becuase he is ex-red dog and the flag waving incident and can not move on from this. Its a shame really people comment about a players ability in a Derby's shirt before he actually plays for us never mind. Barker - I have just one thing to say on this 'You are clueless' Martin - Came on loan then brought very cheapily showed promise and worth trying to develop. Just did not work out and I bet did not cost a lot of money worth a risk. Pringle - Again how much did it actually cost to sign him and give him a go. Won a couple of awards in the reserves, think again people judged him unfairly as was picked up from Ilkeston. It was a shame it did not work out for him. Anderson - signed on a free, had good credentials when came on loan formed a solid centre half parternship with Barker and Buxton depending on who played through injuries. At the time he was worth signing on free however this summer when I think Aberdeen were after him we should have pushed the move forward more. Buxton - What exactly has he done wrong the first season he was here he was solid, yes not fashionable was meant to be a backup only but never never let the side down. That first season he was here due to injuries to Barker, Leacock, Albrechsten, Anderson he carried on playing. Screwing his groin and back up and being unable to play for a year. I would have him in my squad every season has I know he will do his best for the team and battle and never give up. Again got him on a free. Roberts signed for free does not cost a lot and is an average championship defender. No one else around that we could afford without going into lower divisions and I am sure you would be happy with another lower league player. Deeney is down to him being an ex-burton player. He was signed for cover of Bywater and nothing else as there was no other keeper in the club ready or able to step up. Price was here who cost a lot and his wages lost him his place at the club. In respect of Deeney how can you even consider this a poor signing when it was only envisaged that he would play in dire straights hence the reason a player came in on loan when Bywater injured. So lets see (forget Barker in this as this is you just refusing to listen to any argument about Barker and will not move on your previous daft comments) you have decided to highlight Roberts (free), Croft (free), Buxton (free), Pringle (think free), Martins (nominal fee), Deeney (free) and Tyson (free). I think then he has not done to bad in this respect becuase he has not cost the club a lot of money in signings in that respect. However you have strengthened other peoples arguments cheers Bris because what you have confirmed is that when he has money he gets it right. This includes Barker. With money he has also signed Brayford, Bailey, Shackell, Ben Davies, Ward, Robinson, Bryson et al. Cheers for actually agreeing at last that Clough does actually spend money well because his signings with money do tend to work out (however not at present as they are injured or coming back from injury). It has took you long enough to actually come around to being open minded in respect of supporting clough with funds, its nice to see. May be now you will agree it is time for him to be given money to spend on decent players. Only Tom Glick beats you to positive *bullsh*t* spin You're actually brilliant, I'd love to have you as my PR man.. Keep it up RotherhamRam, you aint half entertaining Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotherhamRam Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 i mean ben davies is a waste of money, cannot beat a man and his deliveries have been getting worse, clough signs form players that is the problem in the main. They cannot keep it going over a period of time, am I the only one who thinks barker is not as good as he used to be? roberts average? again what have you been smoking, the guy is consistently out of position, cannot pass well, cannot cross well what does he bring? croft again brings nothing. Ward does well but goes out of the game in the second half, theo i am divided on, bailey am not a massive fan of, the more i see him the more i think very average. Yes you are re Barker. The reason being is the man has been playing with a knackered leg for 12 months has been out for 7 months for christs sake. Then again I suppose you are right maybe it is no exuces really for a player not to show the fine form when he first came when he was fit. Call me old fashioned though surely the game is easier to play if you have two good legs, two good knees, the ability to train and have a preseason (which he has not had for the last two seasons).Being able to train with the team each week to prepare for the game, not having to play in pain in every game knowing further damage is possibly being done. However as I say I am old fashion and these reasons are no valid arguments for his performances slightly dipping in some peoples views. Cheers Young Ram your astounding logic has beaten me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianm Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 i mean ben davies is a waste of money, cannot beat a man and his deliveries have been getting worse, clough signs form players that is the problem in the main. They cannot keep it going over a period of time, am I the only one who thinks barker is not as good as he used to be? roberts average? again what have you been smoking, the guy is consistently out of position, cannot pass well, cannot cross well what does he bring? croft again brings nothing. Ward does well but goes out of the game in the second half, theo i am divided on, bailey am not a massive fan of, the more i see him the more i think very average. I agree Davies and Bailey are average at best in this league. Barker is just coming back, second-half he was attacking the ball a lot more like he used to. He and Shackell are similar in that they both like to be aggressive and attack the first ball, they will have to work to make the partnership a success. We need a figurehead somebody with real quality and presence that might drag some more out of the rest of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Cywka, already debated and you've decided has done nothing to earn his place since Clough destroyed him last season and hasn't gave him a proper run of games in the side since. Leacock, have you forgotten his contribution to a team that won promotion a few years ago? Fit and motivated he would be as good as Barker or Shackell, the money spent on either of them could have been used to buy and pay the wages of the striker you so desire. Remember also the contribution of Bywater? Not the best keeper in the world, but reasonable enough to win us promotion, why was he dissafected? We don't really know, but I'll bet Clough was central to it, or if not central to it should have nipped it in the bud. maybe he was annoyed at how Leacock was treated and things went from bad to worse because of Clough's stubbornness, there's Fielding's wages saved, wages that could have been used for your decent striker, one who could bring that midfield playmaker we just bought into the game, the list goes on and on, why buy Croft, Martin, Maguire if you're never going to use them? There's your decent left back and cover for right back so we don't have to use a midfielder there, limiting our choices for changing the midfield round even more when it becomes disfunctional. Never mind, you've already had the debate with yourself and decided for us all that Clough can do no wrong. Why do you think that Clough destroyed Cwyka. Do you really think that the player is that sensitive that he lets a little bit of public criticism upset him? Leacock is not good enough, his positional sense is attrocious and his playong discipline as a player is very poor. Why has no other team come in for him? Bywayer as his caravan escapade showed is not the brightest of sparks and disruptive. McGuire will probably have a part to play once he learns that it is a team game. If you take a moment to be rational, you may realize that no manager on this earth has a 100% record with transfers. It is very easy to look at Any team and say if he hadn't have bought him or him he could have signed someone else. Sadly my friend, life is not as sole as you seem to portray. xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 I wasn't arguing why he wasn't as good as he used to be and will he get back to form but he is struggling, surely we shouldn't rush him back and give him time to bed in with training and plenty of time, he has had some training games i know that. He has been out for a long time and he won't be as good as he was but i thought he looked very poor in my opinion. I like your caricature RR, it's a shame that you feel you need to reduce yourself to that and that it's a misrepresentation. I personally think barker and shackell are too similar to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamD Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 the fact is clough got hired for his name..... hes been in the job this long because of his name.....the fact is he wont ever us out of mid table/ lower half with out big backing which he will not get from this board so in short our problems are that clough isn't a great manager, and because of this he wont get backed but also he wont ever get us relegated and the board will give him enough money to keep things ticking along so wer just gena have to be in this for the long game and anyone who isnt up for that clearly isn't a true derby county fan because a true fan supports whether winning or losing and does just complain and moan just for the sack of it like Bris 'im a football fan first' vagus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotherhamRam Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Cywka, already debated and you've decided has done nothing to earn his place since Clough destroyed him last season and hasn't gave him a proper run of games in the side since. Leacock, have you forgotten his contribution to a team that won promotion a few years ago? Fit and motivated he would be as good as Barker or Shackell, the money spent on either of them could have been used to buy and pay the wages of the striker you so desire. Remember also the contribution of Bywater? Not the best keeper in the world, but reasonable enough to win us promotion, why was he dissafected? We don't really know, but I'll bet Clough was central to it, or if not central to it should have nipped it in the bud. maybe he was annoyed at how Leacock was treated and things went from bad to worse because of Clough's stubbornness, there's Fielding's wages saved, wages that could have been used for your decent striker, one who could bring that midfield playmaker we just bought into the game, the list goes on and on, why buy Croft, Martin, Maguire if you're never going to use them? There's your decent left back and cover for right back so we don't have to use a midfielder there, limiting our choices for changing the midfield round even more when it becomes disfunctional. Never mind, you've already had the debate with yourself and decided for us all that Clough can do no wrong. Talk about sweeping comments that border on liable. How can you say that Clough was pivotal or central to it. He was in the side until he brought the club into disrepute and was made to apologise for his behaviour by the board due to that stupidy publicty act of art. Leacock has been the instrument on his own downfall in the sense when he plays he is so laid back and shows no urgency. He is ready for a new challenge, is not worth the premiership wages he is on and we have better centre halves in the club playing at present. If you have evidence re Bywater and Leacock being bullied by Clough or his staff or him publicy slating them etc please share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Teale Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Why do you think that Clough destroyed Cwyka. Do you really think that the player is that sensitive that he lets a little bit of public criticism upset him? Leacock is not good enough, his positional sense is attrocious and his playong discipline as a player is very poor. Why has no other team come in for him? Bywayer as his caravan escapade showed is not the brightest of sparks and disruptive. McGuire will probably have a part to play once he learns that it is a team game. If you take a moment to be rational, you may realize that no manager on this earth has a 100% record with transfers. It is very easy to look at Any team and say if he hadn't have bought him or him he could have signed someone else. Sadly my friend, life is not as sole as you seem to portray. xx I have to disagree on Leacock, he can clearly defend at this level, he was an integral part of the back 4 which worked as very good unit to get us promoted, the good run Jewell had was when leacock was in the side until he got injured and in the best run Clough had last season leacock was again playing at centre half. I dont agree with this well no one has come in for him, no one wanted Ward until we took him on loan, no one in the champ wanted Fielding apart from to warm the bench before he came to us, if the finances are as bad as many make out you could put a decent bid in for any of our players and we would sell them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 This is like inviting Jehova's witnesses round for sunday dinner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Teale Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 This is like inviting Jehova's witnesses round for sunday dinner. Ive never done that, is it fun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 I have to disagree on Leacock, he can clearly defend at this level, he was an integral part of the back 4 which worked as very good unit to get us promoted, the good run Jewell had was when leacock was in the side until he got injured and in the best run Clough had last season leacock was again playing at centre half. I dont agree with this well no one has come in for him, no one wanted Ward until we took him on loan, no one in the champ wanted Fielding apart from to warm the bench before he came to us, if the finances are as bad as many make out you could put a decent bid in for any of our players and we would sell them. No problem with disagreeing on the Leacock issue. My main point really was about the 'if we hadn't have bought this player or that player we would have spare cash for a striker/midfielder/tea lady etc. ). It wasn't you who I was answering. I am not a huge Leacock Dan but understand how some people like him (same with Cwyka). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsilks Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Only Tom Glick beats you to positive *bullsh*t* spin You're actually brilliant, I'd love to have you as my PR man.. Keep it up RotherhamRam, you aint half entertaining I agree with him Bris. He has gone through each signing that you have been critical over and justified each and every one. No positive spin, just FACTS. No one has claimed Clough is a world beater, no one has suggested he is a miracle worker. No one has suggested he has signed top players. All he has tried to do is rid the club of it's high earners replacing them with a few good reliable championship players whilst having to take a gamble on a few lower league players. The fact that he has managed to maintain our league position is credit to him yet you seem to think that we should have enhanced our league position. Is that what happens in business? If you strip a company of it's supposed top well paid staff and replace them with very inexpensive ones they suddenly peform better?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CumbrianRam Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Crystal Palace fans say Dean Moxey is there best left back in years. Bananas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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