Dangerous Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 im sick of hearing about the reduction of the wage bill.I could reduce the wage bill by playing schoolkids and buying non league players.The board couldnt care less what division were playing in as long as the money comes in,therefore the pressure on him is minimal.The fans love him because his name is clough.The fans are the ones who are deluded,most sets of frans would have been shouting "you dont know what youre doing" at some of the bizarre substitutions and tactics employed by clough.He gets away with it. A charmed life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sideshowbob Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 im sick of hearing about the reduction of the wage bill.I could reduce the wage bill by playing schoolkids and buying non league players.The board couldnt care less what division were playing in as long as the money comes in,therefore the pressure on him is minimal.The fans love him because his name is clough.The fans are the ones who are deluded,most sets of frans would have been shouting "you dont know what youre doing" at some of the bizarre substitutions and tactics employed by clough.He gets away with it. A charmed life. Totally agree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 im not sure clough is deluded.I do think he is extremely stubborn,his interviews are astounding sometimes.You wouldn't think he was watching the same game.To say that there wasn't much between the teams yesterday was insane.Does he really think the fans are that stupid? I just think he is a poor manager who is living a charmed life. With a three and a half year contract to fall back on, paying that up, for him and his gang will boost expenditure 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 We was pants Cywka did nothing Maguire did nothing but jog around Ben Davies put some decent corners in - noone attacking them Brayford did nothing Roberts was pants Shackell was pants Bryson was pants O'Brien was pants Hendrick was pants Ward wasn't as pants the rest of pants players Green wasn't on long enough to be pants Barker was pants up front - but hey he's a center half Roberts wasn't pants. Saying he was is pants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jourdan Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Wrong, what's changed is Clough has massively reduced the wage bill. What are you expecting? What am I expecting? All I'm expecting is progress. But I just don't feel that where it counts, progress has been made. The board have done a grand job of lowering the expectations at the club to the point that finishing in the top half of the second tier is viewed as some kind of earth-shattering achievement and yet with the way we're playing we're not even certain of that this year! It wouldn't surprise me if we found ourselves lingering in the bottom 6 come the new year. We've lost 5 of the last 9 and I don't see where the points are coming from with the players' confidence so fragile and the squad being decimated with injuries and lacking in strength-in-depth like it is. But ok then, if it is unreasonable of me to expect Clough to get us competing for promotion after three years in charge, just when is it the right time? 2012-13? 2013-14? 2021-22? 2031-32? How long before everyone realises Clough hasn't got what it takes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Roberts wasn't pants. Saying he was is pants. Can I say he was boxers instead? It's only opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 What am I expecting? All I'm expecting is progress. But I just don't feel that where it counts, progress has been made. The board have done a grand job of lowering the expectations at the club to the point that finishing in the top half of the second tier is viewed as some kind of earth-shattering achievement and yet with the way we're playing we're not even certain of that this year! It wouldn't surprise me if we found ourselves lingering in the bottom 6 come the new year. We've lost 5 of the last 9 and I don't see where the points are coming from with the players' confidence so fragile and the squad being decimated with injuries and lacking in strength-in-depth like it is. But ok then, if it is unreasonable of me to expect Clough to get us competing for promotion after three years in charge, just when is it the right time? 2012-13? 2013-14? 2021-22? 2031-32? How long before everyone realises Clough hasn't got what it takes! You've got the wrong man. It isn't Clough's fault he has such a small budget to work with. The board should be the ones receiving your criticism, not Clough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammieib Posted November 20, 2011 Author Share Posted November 20, 2011 Why do you say he has a low budget to work with? I cannot speak from facts but I do think the wage bill will be in the top 8 in the Championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex W Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 I think our wage budget is around mid-table levels given the new influx of teams who've been spending alot , alot of teams above us who've got some very expensive players. Two of the promoted teams will be on the top 8 wages, Southampton and Brighton have alot of wages available to them, which should never be happening. Our wage budget will be average now. More than likely our wage budget matches where we'll finish, 11th/12th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerous Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 You've got the wrong man. It isn't Clough's fault he has such a small budget to work with. The board should be the ones receiving your criticism, not Clough. enough of the low budget talk. Clough knew the budget when he took the job.He has also signed quite a few players.This team is his and at the moment it isnt performing like it can or should.That is the job of the manager to sort. The boards agenda is not performance driven,it is pound notes they are interested in,not points.They know that muppet fans will still love clough regardless of what division we are in. PR wise ,employing clough was a masterstroke.Football wise it was a disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jourdan Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 You've got the wrong man. It isn't Clough's fault he has such a small budget to work with. The board should be the ones receiving your criticism, not Clough. They are both culpable for our struggles in recent years. I'm just talking about Clough as it is the topic of the thread. As far as I'm concerned, Clough might not have had the biggest budget in the division for the past three years but he certainly hasn't had one that justifies three years spent in the bottom half of the Championship. He has spent close to £6m in transfer fees over three years - on average a million per transfer window. In recent years, there have been several teams that have outperformed us on lesser resources. Watford, Millwall, Coventry and Barnsley in 2010-11. Doncaster and Blackpool in 2009-10 just to name a few. This perennial underachievement just isn't good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Your comments about the board say it all. I want a board that is interested in points, not just pounds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SillyBilly Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Our wage budget will be average now. More than likely our wage budget matches where we'll finish, 11th/12th. That would have to be the minimum expectation otherwise Clough will be underperforming. The most frustrating thing for me at the moment is the fans. Just several weeks ago, many, including on this forum, were desperate to sign Clough up. There is one poster in this thread that was practically in bed with Clough and the boys after the first 10 matches and now Cloughs the devil reincarnate. I'm wondering if some actually have memories longer than last week because a few made themselves look quite silly last season as well. Can say what you like about Bris, Alex W etc. but at least they're consistent and one result (good or bad) doesn't revolutionise their thinking pattern. For what its worth, Nigel blows hot-and-cold with me. His win record is abysmal and we can argue the reasons for that till the cows come home. Tactics and substitutions are a joke at times- no way of getting away from it. Man management skills are either genius or flawed, evidence for both. Transfer dealings hit-and-miss, if we're on a budget then he probably needs to improve his good buy ratio. And to pick up on a point made by Boycie, his arrogance with the media grates on me, its as if he doesn't feels he owes accountability to the fans. I'm not a fence sitter, if I was Chairman, Clough would have till seasons end to prove he has learned from experience otherwise he'd be gone. I recognise the club has weathered a period of austerity and that Clough has at the least, been a bringer of stability which counts in his favour. Glick said judge us by our actions and not out words and I'm going to do just that. Don't spew top 6 crap TG, we're not good enough and some of us fans aren't stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CumbrianRam Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Here is his record, if anyone is interested Matches Won Drawn Lost Win % Loss % 140 44 31 65 31.43 46.43 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 The great start we had was excellent in every way except one - it got the board off the hook for not delivering on the promises they made back in the spring. If we'd made a bad start the board would have got it big time, following the demos etc at the back end of last season. Now some fans are blaming Clough and frankly they need to look higher up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex W Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 A win/draw/loss record is never going to look all that great considering the fact he'd been moving along 30 odd players in the last few seasons. I'd rather judge him on this seasons ratio as it's mostly his team, and even then i'd be looking for good/poor performances rather than straight general losses. It's just a case of how to measure that kind of thing........ The media thing could be that he generally doesn't like doing the interviews I suppose, he's not someone to always be in the spotlight. I'm not too bothered by it, but then I don't expect to hear much from him other than very general comments, the line of questioning isn't the best is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ram2767 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I love wikipedia... "Nigel Howard Clough (born 19 March 1966) is an English former [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_football]footballer and the current useless [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coach_(sport)]manager of [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derby_County_F.C.]Derby County. Playing predominately as a[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward_(association_football)]striker, but later in his career was used as a [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midfielder]midfielder, Clough was capped by [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England_national_football_team]England 14 times in the early 1990s." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inglorious02 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 The only reason that Clough said we played well following the match on Saturday is that he knows any comments he make will get back to the players, so if he turns around and says "everyone was **** and if I had my way, they wouldn't play again" that's not going to help the team bounce back is it? However, he should have at least had one of the young strikers sitting on the bench. Surely it's just common sense to try and have cover in as many positions as possible on the bench? Also, it seems that Clough has double standards when it comes to Frank Fielding. Every other position seems to be up for grabs apart from goalkeeper. Clough keeps saying that Fielding is his number one and sticks with him no matter what. Surely its time to give someone else a try in that position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 The only reason that Clough said we played well following the match on Saturday is that he knows any comments he make will get back to the players, so if he turns around and says "everyone was **** and if I had my way, they wouldn't play again" that's not going to help the team bounce back is it? However, he should have at least had one of the young strikers sitting on the bench. Surely it's just common sense to try and have cover in as many positions as possible on the bench? Also, it seems that Clough has double standards when it comes to Frank Fielding. Every other position seems to be up for grabs apart from goalkeeper. Clough keeps saying that Fielding is his number one and sticks with him no matter what. Surely its time to give someone else a try in that position? I think it was right that we had had Barker and Green on the bench, Legdzins is a must. That left him with having to have Buxton on there as Brayford was playing his first game back in weeks and Maguire as a forward. I can't see what else he could have done. I also think that Fielding is on thin ice at the moment, but you don't really want to be swapping your keeper about too often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hucknall Ram Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I think it was right that we had had Barker and Green on the bench, Legdzins is a must. That left him with having to have Buxton on there as Brayford was playing his first game back in weeks and Maguire as a forward. I can't see what else he could have done. I also think that Fielding is on thin ice at the moment, but you don't really want to be swapping your keeper about too often.to me Fielding hasn't been the same keeper since forest, that red card has dented this confidence. Even tho he wasn't at fault for either goal on Saturday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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