Clough - Delusional?

[Leeds Ram]

Hang about here, Glick said they were looking to spend a couple of million on a striker. Then all of a sudden we did not ship out the high earners and the money is not there. If we are going to start and play the blame game at the time of signing Tyson Maguire etc there was still talk of a couple of million for a striker where did that money go.

Clough in the interview stated along the lines the two stikers combined for them is £3million and they made the difference today. A couple of times this year he has eluded to the strikers the other teams have i.e. Southampton. He also said they had been linked to a number the question is if we are linked with the feck are we not signing them. Glick cost us Sammon last year and that was a player we really missed out on and I can't understand why he does not get more of a chance at Wigan cos when he is on they appear to be more of a threat.

Glick and Board time to get the cheque book out and sign the £2m striker as promised.

sorry blaming the board won't fly, clough has spent plenty of money on players, he has spent almost 3 million pounds on a defence which still ships in goals. ( 1 million for barker, 1.1 million for shackell, 300k for fielding, 400k for brayford, 0 for roberts) He has spent well over two million pounds this season and in all honesty has he spent all the money wisely? face it, teams have got out of this division with a lot less than clough has had.

[RotherhamRam]

the problems were nigel slated players unfairly, he defends undefendable performances, if he came out tonight and said this wasn't good enough no-one would have complained. This guy has spent a decent bit of money this season and let's face it, in the past 10 games or so we don't look like we have really progressed. Ball has had about 10 minutes of game time in the first team. The manager needs to repay the board by not acting like a sulky child on the touchline and putting a center back upfront with twenty minutes to go, the man is devoid of ideas and character. He needs to get results together and quickly.

Decent bit of money his biggest signing was Shackell at £1million the rest were £250k-£450k players. We have also got rid of a few and no doubt the wages saved paid for the transfers hence when we did not sell the other hanger ons there was no money.

Last season Glick sold Hulse for £900,000 and Commons for a paltry £300,000 (come on everyone could see that was absolutely a ridiculous low amount of money). Realistically we shoud have received a couple of million for Commons but because he would not sign a contract we sold him to save the wages. The money we should have got for them 2 last season has not been put back into the team and we have never got the players to replace them.

Clough has had to cut the cloth that much and get rid of so many players but has never had the money to replace them he has had to rely on finding good honest players and mould them into the team. I would be interested in seeing how much he has actually cut the wage bill over the last 2 seasons and if the money spent on transfers equates to anywhere near as much saved by Clough.

The striker issue is prime example of money not being there. It changed in August once we found we could not offload players as expected.

[Leeds Ram]

Decent bit of money his biggest signing was Shackell at £1million the rest were £250k-£450k players. We have also got rid of a few and no doubt the wages saved paid for the transfers hence when we did not sell the other hanger ons there was no money.

Last season Glick sold Hulse for £900,000 and Commons for a poultry £300,000 (come on everyone could see that was absolutely a ridiculous low amount of money). Realistically we shoud have received a couple of million for Commons but because he would not sign a contract we sold him to save the wages. The money we should have got for them 2 last season has not been put back into the team and we have never got the players to replace them.

Clough has had to cut the cloth that much and get rid of so many players but has never had the money to replace them he has had to rely on finding good honest players and mould them into the team. I would be interested in seeing how much he has actually cut the wage bill over the last 2 seasons and if the money spent on transfers equates to anywhere near as much saved by Clough.

The striker issue is prime example of money not being there. It changed in August once we found we could not offload players as expected.

completely ridiculous rotheram ram, he has spent 3 million pounds this year how many teams have spent that amount?,he could have brought two or three quality players or 5-7 mid range players. Every season he brings in plenty of new faces and each time around the majority are garbage. You can find good quality players for 300k you know, remember idiakez, rasiak etc it can be done if you know where to look, nigel doesn't. Because nigel always buys english you get less for your money as well. How many teams have spent almost 3 million this season? my guess would be about 6-7 which means we should be top 9 easily, I wonder if we will be by the end of the season. Glick said it was clough's decision to sell hulse and clough also said that, if that is true he got rid of his best asset and failed to replace him, isn't that just poor management by clough?

[RotherhamRam]

completely ridiculous rotheram ram, he has spent 3 million pounds this year how many teams have spent that amount?,he could have brought two or three quality players or 5-7 mid range players. Every season he brings in plenty of new faces and each time around the majority are garbage. You can find good quality players for 300k you know, remember idiakez, rasiak etc it can be done if you know where to look, nigel doesn't. Because nigel always buys english you get less for your money as well. How many teams have spent almost 3 million this season? my guess would be about 6-7 which means we should be top 9 easily, I wonder if we will be by the end of the season. Glick said it was clough's decision to sell hulse and clough also said that, if that is true he got rid of his best asset and failed to replace him, isn't that just poor management by clough?

This is where you are being slighlty daft he has had to spend £3 million pounds on I think 9 players to build up the squad. If we brought just 2 or 3 players as you are suggesting with our injury list who the hell would be playing at present?? The other point is that he was told that he would get his midfield general and striker then all of a sudden there is no money so where does this leave Clough at the beginning of the season. Are you realistically saying that Clough suddenly had a change of heart and decided that the two positions he wanted to fill are no longer vital and decided that they did not need filling??

The squad has been cut back that much over the last couple of years with 9 new players we still can't cope with injuries. How many other teams have this problem except Doncaster.

In respect of teams who has spent more than this look at Leicester how much have they spent and how well are they doing?

[Bris Vegas]

He needs to get results together and quickly.

I'm willing to give him time if I can see a vision that he has.. The problem is, I don't.. He's chopped and changed so much since he walked through the doors and I don't even remember him coming out and actually giving some sort of plan.. He changes styles all too often..

When he waled through he went 4-4-2 to begin with..

Then he found some success with a 4-4-1-1 with Hulse and Commons

Then he went back to some sort of 4-4-2 in the hope Croft would turn out to be the exciting winger he was at Norwich

Then the next season he went 4-2-3-1 with Bueno, Commons, Green and Kuqi etc.. Playing the best football seen at PP since George Burleys days

Then we struggled and he went 4-5-1 with S.Davies up top

Then he went 4-4-2 hoofball again to give us some sort of solidility towards then ond of last season

Then in the summer and the first few games he tried a suicidal 4-1-3-2 formation that was just horrible

Then it seemed he went 4-3-3 at Blackpool which was probably our best performance of the season.. Or at least our most solid

Then he recently went 4-4-2 again which was crap for a few games, average for some more and a couple of decent ones (Pompey, Donny, Millwall)

It's just he doesn't seem to know what he wants to play.. He claims he wants the ball on the deck, short passing.. But it's nothing like that, the complete opposite at times, and it's very difficult using a 4-4-2.. He's not using any out and out wingers, B.Davies isn't a winger and Ward isn't naturally a left winger though he's OK in that position.. Nor do we have a target man.. IMO we're really disjointed and NC isn't getting the best out of the players we have at our disposal..

Someone like Barnsley is the perfect example of a team with a vision or despite not doing so good now will start to climb the table when their play really kicks in.. They'll finish above us this season, I'm 100% sure about it.

[Leeds Ram]

This is where you are being slighlty daft he has had to spend £3 million pounds on I think 9 players to build up the squad. If we brought just 2 or 3 players as you are suggesting with our injury list who the hell would be playing at present?? The other point is that he was told that he would get his midfield general and striker then all of a sudden there is no money so where does this leave Clough at the beginning of the season. Are you realistically saying that Clough suddenly had a change of heart and decided that the two positions he wanted to fill are no longer vital and decided that they did not need filling??

The squad has been cut back that much over the last couple of years with 9 new players we still can't cope with injuries. How many other teams have this problem except Doncaster.

In respect of teams who has spent more than this look at Leicester how much have they spent and how well are they doing?

I think Leicester is the exception rather than the rule, and again Leicester are underachieving massively, just because one club is underachieving it doesn't mean it is an excuse for us to be. The injuries have been constant, we have two choices in what we accept, either a) clough injures players through horrible techniques or 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='B)' /> clough buys injury prone players, both are a symptom of bad management. I am saying that sometimes 2 or 3 top quality players in key positions can be better than 5-6 mediocre ones. Face it, we could have got 3 top quality championship players and brought in loan players to cover the other positions which we need anyway, and the loans would probably been as good as what we have now. Clough spent money in the positions he felt necessary, if we spent 1 million pounds on a player in every position we would have to spend 11 million for us to get it right, most teams spend a couple of million on a couple of players and put in the rest with a few hundred grand, that is normal and what we are doing, it seems in your eyes clough can do no wrong even when the man is blatantly out of line and completely incorrect and incoherent in his strategy for the future. Maybe clough did have a change of heart, he is not logical. Clough hasn't said this season he hasn't had enough, glick has said the money is there, he needs to get a grip and so do some others.

He did a good job 2 seasons ago when jewell left, but since then apart from two runs he has been a dismal failure, he should have gone last season but was saved by his name.

[RotherhamRam]

I'm willing to give him time if I can see a vision that he has.. The problem is, I don't.. He's chopped and changed so much since he walked through the doors and I don't even remember him coming out and actually giving some sort of plan.. He changes styles all too often..

When he waled through he went 4-4-2 to begin with..

Then he found some success with a 4-4-1-1 with Hulse and Commons

Then he went back to some sort of 4-4-2 in the hope Croft would turn out to be the exciting winger he was at Norwich

Then the next season he went 4-2-3-1 with Bueno, Commons, Green and Kuqi etc.. Playing the best football seen at PP since George Burleys days

Then we struggled and he went 4-5-1 with S.Davies up top

Then he went 4-4-2 hoofball again to give us some sort of solidility towards then ond of last season

Then in the summer and the first few games he tried a suicidal 4-1-3-2 formation that was just horrible

Then it seemed he went 4-3-3 at Blackpool which was probably our best performance of the season.. Or at least our most solid

Then he recently went 4-4-2 again which was crap for a few games, average for some more and a couple of decent ones (Pompey, Donny, Millwall)

It's just he doesn't seem to know what he wants to play.. He claims he wants the ball on the deck, short passing.. But it's nothing like that, the complete opposite at times, and it's very difficult using a 4-4-2.. He's not using any out and out wingers, B.Davies isn't a winger and Ward isn't naturally a left winger though he's OK in that position.. Nor do we have a target man.. IMO we're really disjointed and NC isn't getting the best out of the players we have at our disposal..

Someone like Barnsley is the perfect example of a team with a vision or despite not doing so good now will start to climb the table when their play really kicks in.. They'll finish above us this season, I'm 100% sure about it.

Now I know you taking the pissss with this comment. Barnsley a team with vision when they had Mark Robins there last season who was turning the club round, who let him go because he was told he had no money to spend to develop the team. A team who sold their best player after one season in Shackell.

Since when do you know anything about Barnsley. I live 7 miles from Barnsley, Coach football in the area and most of the fans I know are Barnsley fans. They have even less money than us and are reliant at times on the academy and are expecting a relegation battle just to keep up.

If you think that this is a model we should be admiring I aghast at your supreme knowledge not.

[EastKentRam]

Now I know you taking the pissss with this comment. Barnsley a team with vision when they had Mark Robins there last season who was turning the club round, who let him go because he was told he had no money to spend to develop the team. A team who sold their best player after one season in Shackell.

Since when do you know anything about Barnsley. I live 7 miles from Barnsley, Coach football in the area and most of the fans I know are Barnsley fans. They have even less money than us and are reliant at times on the academy and are expecting a relegation battle just to keep up.

If you think that this is a model we should be admiring I aghast at your supreme knowledge not.

I've read a Barnsley forum a couple of times and there fans were very complimentary of Hill and the football he was trying to install. Even though they were losing they were pleased with the football they were playing. This was a few weeks back to be fair but i've read some positive things about Barnsley.

[ram2767]

Havent read any of this thread but I'm just gonna guess by the title its about his post match interview. Delusional is the correct word!

[RotherhamRam]

I think Leicester is the exception rather than the rule, and again Leicester are underachieving massively, just because one club is underachieving it doesn't mean it is an excuse for us to be. The injuries have been constant, we have two choices in what we accept, either a) clough injures players through horrible techniques or 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='B)' /> clough buys injury prone players, both are a symptom of bad management. I am saying that sometimes 2 or 3 top quality players in key positions can be better than 5-6 mediocre ones. Face it, we could have got 3 top quality championship players and brought in loan players to cover the other positions which we need anyway, and the loans would probably been as good as what we have now. Clough spent money in the positions he felt necessary, if we spent 1 million pounds on a player in every position we would have to spend 11 million for us to get it right, most teams spend a couple of million on a couple of players and put in the rest with a few hundred grand, that is normal and what we are doing, it seems in your eyes clough can do no wrong even when the man is blatantly out of line and completely incorrect and incoherent in his strategy for the future. Maybe clough did have a change of heart, he is not logical. Clough hasn't said this season he hasn't had enough, glick has said the money is there, he needs to get a grip and so do some others.

He did a good job 2 seasons ago when jewell left, but since then apart from two runs he has been a dismal failure, he should have gone last season but was saved by his name.

No what I am saying is your point about 2-3 players is not right. We have brough 9 players in and there is no money for loans. If we brought 2-3 players instead for the same money how do we get loans if there is still no money to get them. We were all expecting the midfielder and striker. They have not been delivered and it was Glick who said no more players coming until we have got rid of some more players which was different at the beginning of the season.

It does not matter whether it was 3 players for £3million or 9 players for £3million there is no money for loans. Three players with our injury list would have seen us actually fielding our academy team at this stage. That is the point I am making.

Why not give Clough the extra £2million as I honestly believe he would find two players who would make a difference. Since he has been here each summer he has spent £1million on a gd deal each year. Barker, Shackell and Brayford with Bailey. A further 2 x £1 million players would make a difference to this team. He knows this as he comments on the strikers for other teams as if he is envious

[roosram]

Like many others I have been a Clough supporter, but listening to his interview on Radio Derby on my way back to Hull with my Hull City fan son in law, I find myself agreeing with those who think NC was totally wrong to think 'we played well' and that 'there was nothing much between the teams'. My son in law was shocked and I was embarrassed. Hull totally outplayed us. We played 'hopeful', haphazard and at times 'hoofball' football, whereas they played controlled football and were able to play slick passing incisive football in attack and Mclean alone could and should have scored two or three more They totally overran our midfield continually having men in space and men supporting the player on the ball - which is where our main problems lie imo. Today we were dreadful. We simply are not good enough.

[Bris Vegas]

Now I know you taking the pissss with this comment. Barnsley a team with vision when they had Mark Robins there last season who was turning the club round, who let him go because he was told he had no money to spend to develop the team. A team who sold their best player after one season in Shackell.

Since when do you know anything about Barnsley. I live 7 miles from Barnsley, Coach football in the area and most of the fans I know are Barnsley fans. They have even less money than us and are reliant at times on the academy and are expecting a relegation battle just to keep up.

If you think that this is a model we should be admiring I aghast at your supreme knowledge not.

Rotherham.. When did I mention anything about the background of the club, the finances, the academy etc.. I'm talking about the playing style

Keith Hill has come in and bought in a few of his players from Rochdale and he's installed a football philosophy, his own style.. At the beginning of the sason they were solid but didn't really threaten (they didn't really have a recognised striker because of the injuries) but he stuck at it, saying it will come..

Since we met at PP when we gave them abit of a hiding in the second half (they did have their youngsters out) they have come on leaps and bounds and are playing teams off the park.. Today against Donny they destroyed them, against Burnley they were top notch and scored 3 away at Cardiff.. Can you imagine us scoring 3 at Cardiff?

Keith Hill has a vision of what he wants to do and the football he wants to play.. They'll have a good season.

If you don't think so, I'll make another wager.. Barnsley will finish higher than us this season. Agree or disagree?

Also on current form Danny Butterfield is as good as any other midfielder in the league.. He's having a cracking season

[RotherhamRam]

I've read a Barnsley forum a couple of times and there fans were very complimentary of Hill and the football he was trying to install. Even though they were losing they were pleased with the football they were playing. This was a few weeks back to be fair but i've read some positive things about Barnsley.

This was the argument last year with us and at the beginning of the season.

When we started losing games although we played nice football at times people argued that nice football does not win you games if the players can not produce the football into winning games.

At the beginning of the season we played 4132 and some on here slated it as it was not producing fantastic football in their view however the players we had suited the system and hence we won our opening games. Then injuries started and the formation has changed and changed due to the players at our disposal and the results start dwindling.

Nice football does not guarantee you results.

However no one has mentioned that although we lost and played badly we only dropped one place and still are only 3 points off playoffs. This in itself is a bonus as we could have dropped to 14th today.

[adamD]

Havent read any of this thread but I'm just gonna guess by the title its about his post match interview. Delusional is the correct word!

its acctually about clough saying to a close friend that messi could be a loan captyure and that hes openly gay and thinks he's good looking enough to bed george Michael

[CumbrianRam]

I'd much rather finish 15th playing a nice free-flowing football then finsh 9th playing horrible defensive hoofball

[Bris Vegas]

Since when do you know anything about Barnsley. I live 7 miles from Barnsley, Coach football in the area and most of the fans I know are Barnsley fans. They have even less money than us and are reliant at times on the academy and are expecting a relegation battle just to keep up.

Are you also really that ignorant that you think I only care about a Derby County?

I'm actually a football fan first, Derby County second..

I regularly watch games during the week from over many different countries monitoring playing styles, players abroad and the way clubs are run. Just from last night until now I would have seen 4 different matches from 4 different countries..

[CumbrianRam]

[RotherhamRam]

Rotherham.. When did I mention anything about the background of the club, the finances, the academy etc.. I'm talking about the playing style

Keith Hill has come in and bought in a few of his players from Rochdale and he's installed a football philosophy, his own style.. At the beginning of the sason they were solid but didn't really threaten (they didn't really have a recognised striker because of the injuries) but he stuck at it, saying it will come..

Since we met at PP when we gave them abit of a hiding in the second half (they did have their youngsters out) they have come on leaps and bounds and are playing teams off the park.. Today against Donny they destroyed them, against Burnley they were top notch and scored 3 away at Cardiff.. Can you imagine us scoring 3 at Cardiff?

Keith Hill has a vision of what he wants to do and the football he wants to play.. They'll have a good season.

If you don't think so, I'll make another wager.. Barnsley will finish higher than us this season. Agree or disagree?

Also on current form Danny Butterfield is as good as any other midfielder in the league.. He's having a cracking season

First the highlighted section. So get me right he has brought players from lower leagues surely that can't be any good as we hear this everytime for example when we signed Brayford, Bailey and although you don't like him Ben Davies.

He plays good youngsters funny I think that is the same as Hendrick and O'Brien.

Now the italic part. You forgot to mention they were 5-1 down and being played off the park, and they scored 2 in the last 10 minutes (the bit of the game you love) when Cardiff switched off as they knew the game was won.

The bit you fail to mention at the beginnig of the season until recently they had an injury list of around 10 players who are now back fit does this ring any bells with us.

The difference is they are over their injury list whilst we are still working through it.

[RotherhamRam]

Are you also really that ignorant that you think I only care about a Derby County?

I'm actually a football fan first, Derby County second..

I regularly watch games during the week from over many different countries monitoring playing styles, players abroad and the way clubs are run. Just from last night until now I would have seen 4 different matches from 4 different countries..

Now this quote is the first honest statement from you and kind of gets to the issue

I love football, watch as many games as I can watch all the highlights listen to games when travelling in the car and would call myself a football fan.

I would however say I am a Derby fan first and although I watch other games etc and coaching Derby is the game I would watch over any other game, Listen to over any other game and follow over any other team.

I am not saying I am a better fan than you but Derby is first and foremost when it comes to football.

[Bris Vegas]

First the highlighted section. So get me right he has brought players from lower leagues surely that can't be any good as we hear this everytime for example when we signed Brayford, Bailey and although you don't like him Ben Davies.

He plays good youngsters funny I think that is the same as Hendrick and O'Brien.

Now the italic part. You forgot to mention they were 5-1 down and being played off the park, and they scored 2 in the last 10 minutes (the bit of the game you love) when Cardiff switched off as they knew the game was won.

The bit you fail to mention at the beginnig of the season until recently they had an injury list of around 10 players who are now back fit does this ring any bells with us.

The difference is they are over their injury list whilst we are still working through it.

Rotherham, tell me..

Who will finish higher this season, Derby or Barnsley?