Asanovic Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 or can you argue that barcelona have got the worlds best team and it was assembled mostly before guardiola was there, most managers would do well, man united again a brilliant academy and a brilliant manager, by the way i did say that the best way to success was not to chop and change but to stick to a singular manager. Mark Robins kept Fergie in a job - they weren't anything like they are now when he took over. But as you say, you're all for continuity. I just think the board did the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CumbrianRam Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 or can you argue that barcelona have got the worlds best team and it was assembled mostly before guardiola was there, most managers would do well, man united again a brilliant academy and a brilliant manager, by the way i did say that the best way to success was not to chop and change but to stick to a singular manager. Barcelona finished 3rd in the league the season before Pep took over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Management is a strange thing. Most people think they can do better than their manager, in any walk of life. Football is particularly strange because any player not in the team will think the manager is wrong. Nigel Clough has done an apprenticeship. Roy Keane, Steve Bruce, and many others went straight into jobs at the top end, with money to spend. In my opinion, NC has done it from the shop floor up. He's made mistakes, but he's used his knowledge of top class football combined with being a player manager and now a manager of a big club, to build a team that can compete at the level he's working at. In my opinion he has taken players like Bailey, Barker, Brayford, Bryson, Shackell, O Brien, Hendrick, Ward, Davies (x2), Fielding, etc and made them believe they can play at a higher level. None of them have ever played in the Premier League, yet I bet some of them believe they now can! And thats down to Nigel Clough. We've got a good un. We need to stick with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 For every good manager that has stayed in a job and had success (Pep, Fergie, Moyes) etc.. There are other managers that just aren't cut out for it and have taken their clubs as far as they can.. Crewe, Sheff Wed, Doncaster and Arsenal spring to mind.. They all were on the verge of something, or even made it, but stayed in the job far too long through loyalty that they've gone backwards.. Arsenal were champions of England now look like they'll struggle for top 6.. Wednesday under Laws and Crewe under Gradi both were around the top 6 in the NPC and have plummeted by keeping their managers or waiting too long to get rid and Donny would have gone down this season had they not got rid of O'Driscall. Clough deserves time, he deserves another 3 years with his team.. I still get the feeling he wants shot of at least 5 players and next season will be hist first season with completely his team, his ideas, his everything. But if we're still languising bottom half of the NPC afterwards then perhaps we have to admit that we need a fresh face to take us on to the next level. This season should be another building session and getting rid of the last of the dead wood.. Then next season can be the first of his 3 years, I think that's fair enough.. To have wanted him gone last year would have been harsh.. Not enough managers are given time to assemble their squads (it usually takes 3 years to clear out and bring in your own) so effectively managers are working with someone elses players.. It's incredibly difficult if they don't fit your style.. (Pep could hardly walk into Stoke and get them playing Barca type football, it would take him 5 years to clear out the dross and bring in his players and style) They should make it a rule that managers can't be sacked within the first 3 years of their contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornwallRam Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Managerial stability is vastly overated, at least at our level. From the fifteen promotions from the Championship in the last five years, only three were managed by managers who had been there for more than one complete season. History suggests that if a manager does not get it right in the Championship in thier first full season, they are unlikely to achieve promotion. Out of the three 'long term' managers - Mcarthy took three seasons to get Wolves promoted but got to the play offs in his first season and 7th in his second. Pulis took two seasons, but had achieved an 8th place finish in his first season. Steve Bruce was with Birmingham City City for six years, but achieved two promotions in that time - including one in his first season. Gradual building does not appear to be the way to get promoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Maybe this will change going forward as teams at our level cope with smaller revenues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornwallRam Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Maybe this will change going forward as teams at our level cope with smaller revenues? Smaller revenues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Yes with smaller gates due to the recession and maybe less TV money and corporate revenues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Managerial stability is vastly overated, at least at our level. From the fifteen promotions from the Championship in the last five years, only three were managed by managers who had been there for more than one complete season. History suggests that if a manager does not get it right in the Championship in thier first full season, they are unlikely to achieve promotion. Out of the three 'long term' managers - Mcarthy took three seasons to get Wolves promoted but got to the play offs in his first season and 7th in his second. Pulis took two seasons, but had achieved an 8th place finish in his first season. Steve Bruce was with Birmingham City City for six years, but achieved two promotions in that time - including one in his first season. Gradual building does not appear to be the way to get promoted. You can add Owen coyle to that list, and the guy at Norwich at all but 1 game in charge for them the season before they came up from L1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSD Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Managerial stability is vastly overated, at least at our level. From the fifteen promotions from the Championship in the last five years, only three were managed by managers who had been there for more than one complete season. History suggests that if a manager does not get it right in the Championship in thier first full season, they are unlikely to achieve promotion. Out of the three 'long term' managers - Mcarthy took three seasons to get Wolves promoted but got to the play offs in his first season and 7th in his second. Pulis took two seasons, but had achieved an 8th place finish in his first season. Steve Bruce was with Birmingham City City for six years, but achieved two promotions in that time - including one in his first season. Gradual building does not appear to be the way to get promoted. And how many of those teams who had a manager less than 2 years went straight back down again? Just out of interest 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladyram Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 The contract will be signed soon campers, have faith. In the short interlude may I interest you all in a song..... Nigel Cloughie is a Ram, Is A Ram, Is A Ram, Nigel Cloughie is A Ram, He hates Forest 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornwallRam Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 You can add Owen coyle to that list, and the guy at Norwich at all but 1 game in charge for them the season before they came up from L1 Both got their teams promoted in their first FULL season in charge. At this point I would hate to see Nigel leave, but the stats don't back up the 'sticking with your manager is the way to get promoted' theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Both got their teams promoted in their first FULL season in charge. At this point I would hate to see Nigel leave, but the stats don't back up the 'sticking with your manager is the way to get promoted' theory. I thought Coyle had been there from the start of the 07-08 season, wrong on that score. But the guy at Norwich was there for as good as a full season in L1 But let's not look at just time to get promoted. Of those that have been promoted how many stayed up without consistent management prior to promotion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornwallRam Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 I thought Coyle had been there from the start of the 07-08 season, wrong on that score. But the guy at Norwich was there for as good as a full season in L1 But let's not look at just time to get promoted. Of those that have been promoted how many stayed up without consistent management prior to promotion? "On 18 August 2009 [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Lambert]Paul Lambert was announced as the new manager, leaving his post at Colchester, and nine months later led Norwich to promotion back to the Championship as League One Champions, after a single season in League One." From Wiki So yes, Lambert should be added to the list. As most teams that get promoted have new managers, and most teams that get promoted get relegated the next season, it is bound to be the case that most teams with new managers get relegated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 "On 18 August 2009 [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Lambert]Paul Lambert was announced as the new manager, leaving his post at Colchester, and nine months later led Norwich to promotion back to the Championship as League One Champions, after a single season in League One." From Wiki So yes, Lambert should be added to the list. As most teams that get promoted have new managers, and most teams that get promoted get relegated the next season, it is bound to be the case that most teams with new managers get relegated. So stability may not be the only way to get out of the championship, but stability is the most effective way of staying out of the championship - Stoke, Wolves, Bolton, Charlton, Wigan all got out and stayed out after building with stable management. Once you have got out and had a couple of years out then a change may be required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asanovic Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Managerial stability is vastly overated, at least at our level. From the fifteen promotions from the Championship in the last five years, only three were managed by managers who had been there for more than one complete season. History suggests that if a manager does not get it right in the Championship in thier first full season, they are unlikely to achieve promotion. Out of the three 'long term' managers - Mcarthy took three seasons to get Wolves promoted but got to the play offs in his first season and 7th in his second. Pulis took two seasons, but had achieved an 8th place finish in his first season. Steve Bruce was with Birmingham City City for six years, but achieved two promotions in that time - including one in his first season. Gradual building does not appear to be the way to get promoted. And how many come straight back down? Or yo-yo for a few years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Rumours.... Derby have already sounded out Steve McClaren to see if he would be interested in the Derby job if Nigel leaves Dean Leacock to go to Sheffield United on loan before the end of november with Derby still paying his wages Pride Park Plaza was hush hush due to concerns over who owned the land. Derby are planning a huge clear out at the end of the season with at least 15 players leaving. Nigel wants to complete 6 years as Derby boss and has absolutely no intention of leaving. .....easy to invent. At least one of the above is definately true. 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 The only time I ever look in the Mirror is when I'm doing me hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 ....or creaming your piles :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CumbrianRam Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 I wouldn't even use the Mirror for chip paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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