How good is our squad?

[Magicman]

3 hours ago, BaianoPOTY98 said:

So Sibley scoring 2 x goals the other night doesnt have any bearing on your selection?

Not when all fit !! He is not going to be ahead of Barks in my book. 

[Ghost of Clough]

10 minutes ago, YorkshireRam said:

Again, a lot of words to still not explain how you've arrived at the arbitrary figure of £10m... 

Do you want me to post screenshots for all of the spreadsheets I've used regarding the club's finances over the past 2 decades and explain everything line by line?
There's also the information we've been told regarding the business plan, turnover exceeding what had been budgeted for, League 1 restrictions, etc..

My knowledge of football finance also results a conservative calculated estimate for our turnover to be £16m, whilst a realistic estimate for this season is £18m. You can compare this turnover figure to our historic accounts to give yourself an idea of what a reasonable wages to turnover ratio is.
Our wage bill in 12/13 was £12.1m, which was our lowest since relegation from the PL (our turnover was also at its lowest, £15.4m.
Our wages were also at just £9.4m in 05/06 (turnover was £11.4m), the lowest it has been since 96/97.

In summary, the historical data for our club and others as well as basic information provided to us give me great confidence in a £10m figure being a lower end estimate for our wage bill.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

Individual salaries are put out in the public domain?

Salary sport is not the best source.

[On the Ram Page]

27 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Do you want me to post screenshots for all of the spreadsheets I've used regarding the club's finances over the past 2 decades and explain everything line by line?
There's also the information we've been told regarding the business plan, turnover exceeding what had been budgeted for, League 1 restrictions, etc..

My knowledge of football finance also results a conservative calculated estimate for our turnover to be £16m, whilst a realistic estimate for this season is £18m. You can compare this turnover figure to our historic accounts to give yourself an idea of what a reasonable wages to turnover ratio is.
Our wage bill in 12/13 was £12.1m, which was our lowest since relegation from the PL (our turnover was also at its lowest, £15.4m.
Our wages were also at just £9.4m in 05/06 (turnover was £11.4m), the lowest it has been since 96/97.

In summary, the historical data for our club and others as well as basic information provided to us give me great confidence in a £10m figure being a lower end estimate for our wage bill.

Pure guess work! You have no idea of how our new owner operates financially. I would guess ( I admit “guess”) that he is far more prudent than previous owners (thank goodness). The current financial environment is totally different to even 1 or 2 years ago. I would much prefer to accept statements from someone (Warne?) who knows what is actually happening (as far as he is told) within the Club.

[Archied]

38 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Do you want me to post screenshots for all of the spreadsheets I've used regarding the club's finances over the past 2 decades and explain everything line by line?
There's also the information we've been told regarding the business plan, turnover exceeding what had been budgeted for, League 1 restrictions, etc..

My knowledge of football finance also results a conservative calculated estimate for our turnover to be £16m, whilst a realistic estimate for this season is £18m. You can compare this turnover figure to our historic accounts to give yourself an idea of what a reasonable wages to turnover ratio is.
Our wage bill in 12/13 was £12.1m, which was our lowest since relegation from the PL (our turnover was also at its lowest, £15.4m.
Our wages were also at just £9.4m in 05/06 (turnover was £11.4m), the lowest it has been since 96/97.

In summary, the historical data for our club and others as well as basic information provided to us give me great confidence in a £10m figure being a lower end estimate for our wage bill.

Erm no

are you sure it’s football you like or just spreadsheets, numbers and stats?

reminds me of an old joke about a bear hunter with the punchline , are you sure your here for the hunting 🤷‍♂️

[BaianoPOTY98]

1 hour ago, Magicman said:

Not when all fit !! He is not going to be ahead of Barks in my book. 

I’m not talking ahead of Barks but Hourihane ahead of Sibs on a left sided role I’m just glad your not picking the team!

[RodleyRam]

3 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

When you've studied football club accounts as much as I have over the last however many years you tend to get a good idea of what a club is spending. Looking at anything like Salary Sport as an indication of what a club is spending on wages is a complete waste of time and are wildly out. You'd be just as well informed if you used the latest Football Manager as evidence of a club's wage bill.

As an example, Bolton had a wage bill of over £10m in 21/22, yet Salary Sport at the time had them down as just £3.3m
Other examples being Burton (£5.1m vs £3.8m), Charlton (£10.6m vs £6.1m), Portsmouth (£7.9m vs £4.3m), etc...

Out of interest is the discrepancy football Vs non-football staff?

Edited October 19, 2023 by RodleyRam

[Tyler Durden]

Regardless of what pivot tables each one of us have detailing how much each of our team is allegedly on what's the point trying to be made here - that the bigger the wage bill the better the squad is?

[Magicman]

1 hour ago, BaianoPOTY98 said:

I’m not talking ahead of Barks but Hourihane ahead of Sibs on a left sided role I’m just glad your not picking the team!

Sibs is far to inconsistent to be my first choice - coming on as a sub he might nick a goal. 

[BaianoPOTY98]

14 minutes ago, Magicman said:

Sibs is far to inconsistent to be my first choice - coming on as a sub he might nick a goal. 

And Hourihane is consistent ?

[Tyler Durden]

Shouldn't this thread be titled how expensive is our squad

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, Tyler Durden said:

Regardless of what pivot tables each one of us have detailing how much each of our team is allegedly on what's the point trying to be made here - that the bigger the wage bill the better the squad is?

It more or less started along the lines of 'we have a top 3 budget, therefore the squad is underperforming'.

[Tyler Durden]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

It more or less started along the lines of 'we have a top 3 budget, therefore the squad is underperforming'.

I read on some random website that Man Utd had the biggest wage bill last year in the Premiership.

Does that then follow that their squad is the best in the Premiership?

Or that their squad is underperforming? 

I just take it that they've paying the most on players wages and it has no connection to the quality of their squad. 

[Ghost of Clough]

7 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

I read on some random website that Man Utd had the biggest wage bill last year in the Premiership.

Does that then follow that their squad is the best in the Premiership?

Or that their squad is underperforming? 

I just take it that they've paying the most on players wages and it has no connection to the quality of their squad. 

There's a very obvious trend in every division between wage budget and league position. Just because Man Utd spend the most on wages doesn't mean they deserve to win the league, just like any side doesn't deserve to win a game just by turning up.

Given Man Utd are spending the most but still not winning anything, you identify the waste. Is the manager underperforming, or is the club wasting money on players? I see Maguire ans Sancho as two obvious examples of massive wages and little game time. Shaw, Martial, Reguilon are on a decent wedge and not playing much either.

Same will apply to us. We are currently underperforming against budget. Have we given our players more money than their ability deserves, do they need more time to settle in and adjust tonthe tactics, or is the manager not good enough? 

[Tyler Durden]

15 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

There's a very obvious trend in every division between wage budget and league position. Just because Man Utd spend the most on wages doesn't mean they deserve to win the league, just like any side doesn't deserve to win a game just by turning up.

Given Man Utd are spending the most but still not winning anything, you identify the waste. Is the manager underperforming, or is the club wasting money on players? I see Maguire ans Sancho as two obvious examples of massive wages and little game time. Shaw, Martial, Reguilon are on a decent wedge and not playing much either.

Same will apply to us. We are currently underperforming against budget. Have we given our players more money than their ability deserves, do they need more time to settle in and adjust tonthe tactics, or is the manager not good enough? 

Why do you need a forum to debate opinions when you've clearly made up your mind already as your response evidences.

Am comfortable agreeing that we probably are in the top quartile of total players wages being paid out but then you've tried to make the huge leap in saying that the size of players wages is the same as quality of said players. Its not and its improper to try and make that as some scientific law. 

And then you've compounded this false assumption by then saying therefore this squad of players is underperforming.

I'll agree with you on the first point everything else is just opinion. 

Edited October 19, 2023 by Tyler Durden

[Magicman]

3 hours ago, BaianoPOTY98 said:

And Hourihane is consistent ?

Much higher rate of goals and assists plus PW prefers him to Sibs. 

[YorkshireRam]

16 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Do you want me to post screenshots for all of the spreadsheets I've used regarding the club's finances over the past 2 decades and explain everything line by line?
There's also the information we've been told regarding the business plan, turnover exceeding what had been budgeted for, League 1 restrictions, etc..

My knowledge of football finance also results a conservative calculated estimate for our turnover to be £16m, whilst a realistic estimate for this season is £18m. You can compare this turnover figure to our historic accounts to give yourself an idea of what a reasonable wages to turnover ratio is.
Our wage bill in 12/13 was £12.1m, which was our lowest since relegation from the PL (our turnover was also at its lowest, £15.4m.
Our wages were also at just £9.4m in 05/06 (turnover was £11.4m), the lowest it has been since 96/97.

In summary, the historical data for our club and others as well as basic information provided to us give me great confidence in a £10m figure being a lower end estimate for our wage bill.

Your ''confidence'' is not a quantitative measure of anything 😂 You've clearly missed the point entirely which is this data simply isn't available, and therefore assertions made, or conclusions drawn from hypothetical figures (as you've provided), are completely unsubstantiated. Either accept that point, or keep carping on about your ''knowledge of football finance'', but that won't change these facts.

[Tyler Durden]

Last season Man Utd had the highest wage bill in the Premiership, they finished third but the consensus was that they actually overachieved with this league position.

This season there are uncorroborated assertions that we have one of the largest wage bills in League 1 but by the same "logic" we are underachieving according to some opinion on here.

Can't even get my head around that. 

Edited October 20, 2023 by Tyler Durden

[RoyMac5]

Easily good enough for promotion.

[Ghost of Clough]

20 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Last season Man Utd had the highest wage bill in the Premiership, they finished third but the consensus was that they actually overachieved with this league position.

This season there are uncorroborated assertions that we have one of the largest wage bills in League 1 but by the same "logic" we are underachieving according to some opinion on here.

Can't even get my head around that. 

Consensus of which group of people and what were they judging them on? I'm just guessing again, but that judgement will be based against the quality within their squad. Whilst the squad can be overperforming, that doesn't mean the club is too. They're being very wasteful with their money, hence why they're underperforming against their budget.