The 6 Nations & RWC 2023 Thread

[Van der MoodHoover]

Some game is Ireland v France 

[Comrade 86]

1 hour ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

Some game is Ireland v France 

Absolute belter. Ireland worthy winners. Farrell worked out Edwards' defensive plan and his lads executed brilliantly. Such a well drilled side. I thought they were brilliant at the breakdown, as good with the ball as without. Back to the drawing board for France who didn't get the basics right today.

[Van der MoodHoover]

7 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Absolute belter. Ireland worthy winners. Farrell worked out Edwards' defensive plan and his lads executed brilliantly. Such a well drilled side. I thought they were brilliant at the breakdown, as good with the ball as without. Back to the drawing board for France who didn't get the basics right today.

Going to be watching England v each of these through the fingers. Both look a long way ahead of England atm.

Right, onto the Celtic clash....

[Comrade 86]

2 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

Going to be watching England v each of these through the fingers. Both look a long way ahead of England atm.

Right, onto the Celtic clash....

Yep, won't be an easy watch against either, that's for sure. The Rams not having a great time either today ?

[Comrade 86]

After the Ireland - France game, this is not terribly easy on the eye ?

[CWC1983]

2 hours ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

After the Ireland - France game, this is not terribly easy on the eye ?

Error strewn 1st half but Finn came into his own 2nd half. 

He's got a pack moving forward this year which buys him time to pick his passes. 

Paris in 2 weeks will be tough. 

Ireland just look formidable. 

[Comrade 86]

2 hours ago, CWC1983 said:

Error strewn 1st half but Finn came into his own 2nd half. 

He's got a pack moving forward this year which buys him time to pick his passes. 

Paris in 2 weeks will be tough. 

Ireland just look formidable. 

Confession time. I switched it off at halftime ?‍♂️That'll teach me, though I'm just about to sit down and watch it now.

Finn's a talented lad, but I do wish he'd stop trying to wind folk up and play his game as he's dynamite when he's on it. Thank the lord the ongoing saga of him and Townsend seems to be over. Scotland look a deal better for it.

Have to say, I fear for Wales. I'm not sure Gatland was the answer, or if he was, what the question might have been. They've some really good young players, but I can't help thinking he threw the baby out this week. Wales played so narrow and I really think the whole smash it up the middle thing has had its day. Quick ball is key these days, as the Irish have shown, that and slowing down the oppo's ball. They remind me of New Zealand as they play right on the edge and clearly do their homework on each ref that they get. Not Barnes' and co's finest hour I thought, but them's the breaks. He's generally a decent enough ref, but I don't think he gets the breakdown right. As for the TMO, WTF! 

Paris will be tough for Scotland, as there's bound to be a backlash, but they've shown they can raise their game. France will probably turn up in full though, but it could be a cracking game whatever the outcome. Spare a thought for England and Wales though. They just might be battling for the kitchen implement, or to avoid it at least! I'm hoping for a better performance from England tomorrow, but something about the side doesn't fill me with confidence, even if it looks better balanced than of late. Given our playing numbers and despite the injuries, we ought to have greater strength in depth than seems to be the case. I guess I need to practice what I preach and learn some patience ?

[Comrade 86]

Much better from England today, but in no way error free. Made our tackles for the most part which is a step in the right direction and Ollie Lawrence will have pleased VdM with some hard running, even chucking in a late jackal to a very good return to the England midfield. We still need to be seeing more line breaks though IMO. Lawrence was dominant in the collisions, but only broke the line once, though in fairness, I did think Farell's pass timing was a tad off today and JvP does not create enough to warrant being first string.

Unsung heroes today for me were Jack Willis and Ollie Chessum - both immense. Really good to see Jack in particular after that horrific injury a couple of years back. Twenty tackles completed in 52 minutes is an insane stat for those that credit such things. Nice to see Henry Arundel score too, though MdV and I might have managed to dot that one down after some good work from Alex Mitchell. Might not have too though!

Quick doff of the cap to Italy. Very subdued in the first half, after a hard game against France last week, but showed some real spirit and flair in the second. They are starting to improve at a rate of knots, but will need some strength in depth from somewhere at some point.

Rest week for the chaps now, lazy buggers that they are. Back in a fortnight.

[Van der MoodHoover]

I was indeed impressed with Ollie's power and straight ahead speed. Something to work with so Steve Borthwick will hopefully stick with him, rather than the Eddie Jones approach of 1 cap and out.

The consensus virw from commentators, pundits and Steve Borthwick is "a few small steps". I'd go along with that.

Not sure why Smith was brought on at 12 though.

I fancy England against Wales, but we'll get tonked by the other two.....

[Comrade 86]

17 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

I was indeed impressed with Ollie's power and straight ahead speed. Something to work with so Steve Borthwick will hopefully stick with him, rather than the Eddie Jones approach of 1 cap and out.

The consensus virw from commentators, pundits and Steve Borthwick is "a few small steps". I'd go along with that.

Not sure why Smith was brought on at 12 though.

I fancy England against Wales, but we'll get tonked by the other two.....

Borthwick is pretty loyal so I'm certain the shirt will stay with Ollie for the time being, at very least. As I said before, I think Borthwick's favoured option would have been Dan Kelly, but I'm not sure how long Kelly is out for and you couldn't be dropping Ollie after today's game in any case.

Yep, the Smith substitution was odd. I thought Farrell was decent in the main, but surely he should be the one to make way for Smith. Only plausible explanation would be that Ollie must have taken a knock or was blowing out his arse (entitled to be really) and that there were no backs on the left on the bench other than Marcus. Talented as Smith is, nobody would play him as a 12 by choice, though even then he and the skipper could have swapped positions.

As for France and Ireland, I'm trying not to think about those games ?

[BucksRam]

On 12/02/2023 at 17:16, 86 Hair Islands said:

Much better from England today, but in no way error free. Made our tackles for the most part which is a step in the right direction and Ollie Lawrence will have pleased VdM with some hard running, even chucking in a late jackal to a very good return to the England midfield. We still need to be seeing more line breaks though IMO. Lawrence was dominant in the collisions, but only broke the line once, though in fairness, I did think Farell's pass timing was a tad off today and JvP does not create enough to warrant being first string.

Unsung heroes today for me were Jack Willis and Ollie Chessum - both immense. Really good to see Jack in particular after that horrific injury a couple of years back. Twenty tackles completed in 52 minutes is an insane stat for those that credit such things. Nice to see Henry Arundel score too, though MdV and I might have managed to dot that one down after some good work from Alex Mitchell. Might not have too though!

Quick doff of the cap to Italy. Very subdued in the first half, after a hard game against France last week, but showed some real spirit and flair in the second. They are starting to improve at a rate of knots, but will need some strength in depth from somewhere at some point.

Rest week for the chaps now, lazy buggers that they are. Back in a fortnight.

Agree with this, Willis and Chessum stand outs. Ludlum too for me.  The high ball was much, much better, enabling us to at least challenge for it, unlike last time out where every high kick went unchallenged. Farrell was dogged in defence but I, and many around me were frustrated at his propensity to try the grubber kick. Pretty sure if Smith had been in that position, he'd have run more often than not.  There's always a place for those kicks, but Farrell seemed to try it every time and I don't recall one of them coming off. All in all, a much improved performance, but nowhere near the levels being shown by Scotland, France or Ireland. We ought to avoid the wooden spoon....just. 

PS: I waved. 

[Comrade 86]

17 minutes ago, BucksRam said:

Agree with this, Willis and Chessum stand outs. Ludlum too for me.  The high ball was much, much better, enabling us to at least challenge for it, unlike last time out where every high kick went unchallenged. Farrell was dogged in defence but I, and many around me were frustrated at his propensity to try the grubber kick. Pretty sure if Smith had been in that position, he'd have run more often than not.  There's always a place for those kicks, but Farrell seemed to try it every time and I don't recall one of them coming off. All in all, a much improved performance, but nowhere near the levels being shown by Scotland, France or Ireland. We ought to avoid the wooden spoon....just. 

PS: I waved. 

Forgot to look out for you. Glad you got to see a winning performance at least.

Agree on Farrell's overuse of the grubber. Obviously a tactic to turn the Italians around, but used too often and not particularly well executed. We'll know more after the Wales game, but at least some small signs of progression, even if against a team we always beaten.

[Comrade 86]

So here's the England training squad to face Wales. Still no sign of Lawes or Tom Curry and WIll Stuart comes in for Sinckler who got his face unintentionally caved in by Genge. Leaves me wondering what Val Rapava-Ruskin has to do to get a chance. Best scrummager in the country right now but seemingly not favoured. Marchant back in the squad ahead of Manu being the other notable change.

Forwards: Ollie Chessum, Dan Cole, Ben Curry, Alex Dombrandt, Ben Earl, Ellis Genge, Jamie George, Nick Isiekwe, Maro Itoje, Lewis Ludlam, Will Stuart, Mako Vunipola, Jack Walker, Jack Willis.

Backs: Henry Arundell, Owen Farrell, Ollie Hassell-Collins, Ollie Lawrence, Max Malins, Joe Marchant, Alex Mitchell, Henry Slade, Marcus Smith, Freddie Steward, Jack van Poortvliet, Anthony Watson.

[BucksRam]

2 hours ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Forgot to look out for you. Glad you got to see a winning performance at least.

Agree on Farrell's overuse of the grubber. Obviously a tactic to turn the Italians around, but used too often and not particularly well executed. We'll know more after the Wales game, but at least some small signs of progression, even if against a team we always beaten.

Ah well, I expect someone waved back. 

Wales will be a proper test of where we're at.  Who knows, one of Farrell's kicks may come off.  

[Comrade 86]

It takes ineptness on a biblical scale to make the RFU look fit for purpose, but the WRU are doing so in a hack canter.

They need to sort this s*** out and soon. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/64662366

[RadioactiveWaste]

You're saying they weren't on strike last weekend!

[Comrade 86]

2 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

You're saying they weren't on strike last weekend!

Feel the burn! ? 

I confess I only watched the highlights of that game and I'm not going to upset our Welsh cousins further by passing commentary. The WRU are a shambles and fair game however, though the notion of a strike did make me chuckle, I'll admit.

[Comrade 86]

Come on Steve, have a look at these Bristol and Gloucester lads please. Val a front row destroyer and Randall back from injury grabbed two tries for Brizzle today and is looking sharper by the week. JVP is just a younger Ben Youngs. Randall and Mitchell the lads to be looking at now with Raffy Quirke when he's back and showing form?

[Comrade 86]

As if we weren't short enough in midfield, Manu gets himself a straight red for the stupidest of leading arms. I mean you love to see the hits and collisions, but you can't elbow someone in face MMA style on a rugby pitch, that's just moronic ?

 

[Comrade 86]

Hate the rest weeks though they're obviously needed, so am happy we've some more egg-chasing to watch this weekend. England travelling to the Principality for Wales' annual World Cup Final and I'm hoping we show up as I'm not sure I can take a beating off our cousins from out West. They'll be up for this in a fashion they've not been as yet and I don't think it'll be an easy game, especially upfront.

Squad as below - a bit disappointed that Ford doesn't make the 26 but I think Borthwick has made it clear that Farrell is the skipper and incumbent. Courtney comes back into the side but you'd expect him to be a tad rusty. Ben Curry in for brother Tom who is having a mare with injuries this season.

Interesting to see what the back three look like. Hassell-Collins is added to the ever-growing injury list and Cadan Murley is added to the squad. The young Quins winger is not dissimilar to Henry Arundel and has some serious wheels on him. Relatively lightweight at a 'mere' 82Kg but a prime finisher and could get his first cap for England. Would dearly love Arundel to start, but I think Malins is nailed on based on current form.

Borthwick also stick with JVP and Mitchell as the SH options. I'd favour the latter, but Big Steve won't. I'm lukewarm on JVP who as he's doesn't get the ball away quickly enough and takes too long with his box-kicking which has already hurt us a few times. That said, Borthwick has forgotten more than I'll ever know about the game and knows JVP's game well having coached him at Leicester, so I'm hoping he proves me wrong.

England by 5 my complete guess, though I'd not be surprised were the Welsh to step up considerably. Their back-row is frightening.

England squad

Forwards: Chessum, Cole, B Curry, Dombrandt, Genge, George, Isiekwe, Itoje, Lawes, Ludlam, Sinckler, M Vunipola, Walker, Willis.

Backs: Arundell, Farrell, Lawrence, Malins, Marchant, Mitchell, Murley, Slade, Smith, Steward, Van Poortvliet, Watson.

Good luck to all you to all - hope your teams do you proud, unless of course you are Welsh, in which case I hope you improve in the following round, not this one!