Comrade 86 Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 Slade has played both roles and has done for England. Joe Marchant is more of a specialised 13 so assuming Slade comes in, he'll be at 12. For the record, Slade is well over 6 foot and nigh-on 100Kg. Borthwick would have wanted Dan Kelly to be starting at 12 - he's a big strong lad who was meant to offer a bit of go-forward - but along with pretty much every other viable / proven option, he's out for the foreseeable. Ojomo, Northmore and maybe Odogwu could fit the 13 brief, but it's hard to know whether they're ready for Test rugby yet. Eddie tried Atkinson, but to my eye, he looked pretty ordinary. I certainly wouldn't be writing off Manu just yet in any case. Being dropped might just re-light the fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 Borthwick's squad for Italy - Ben Youngs, Ben Curry and Anthony Watson all axed. Forwards: Ollie Chessum (Leicester Tigers, 6 caps), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 96 caps), Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins, 10 caps), Tom Dunn (Bath Rugby, 3 caps), Ben Earl (Saracens, 14 caps), Ellis Genge (Bristol Bears, 44 caps), Jamie George (Saracens, 73 caps), Nick Isiekwe (Saracens, 9 caps), Maro Itoje (Saracens, 63 caps), Lewis Ludlam (Northampton Saints, 15 caps), David Ribbans (Northampton Saints, 3 caps), Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, 57 caps), Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 75 caps), Jack Walker (Harlequins, uncapped), Jack Willis (Toulouse, 6 caps) Backs: Henry Arundell (London Irish, 3 caps), Owen Farrell (Saracens, 102 caps), Tommy Freeman (Northampton Saints, 3 caps), Ollie Hassell-Collins (London Irish, 1 cap), Ollie Lawrence (Bath Rugby, 8 caps), Max Malins (Saracens, 15 caps), Joe Marchant (Harlequins, 14 caps), Alex Mitchell (Northampton Saints, 1 cap), Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 52 caps), Fin Smith (Northampton Saints, uncapped), Marcus Smith (Harlequins, 18 caps), Freddie Steward (Leicester Tigers, 18 caps), Manu Tuilagi (Sale Sharks, 50 caps), Jack van Poortvliet (Leicester Tigers, 8 caps) BucksRam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BucksRam Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 1 hour ago, 86 Hair Islands said: Borthwick's squad for Italy - Ben Youngs, Ben Curry and Anthony Watson all axed. Forwards: Ollie Chessum (Leicester Tigers, 6 caps), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 96 caps), Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins, 10 caps), Tom Dunn (Bath Rugby, 3 caps), Ben Earl (Saracens, 14 caps), Ellis Genge (Bristol Bears, 44 caps), Jamie George (Saracens, 73 caps), Nick Isiekwe (Saracens, 9 caps), Maro Itoje (Saracens, 63 caps), Lewis Ludlam (Northampton Saints, 15 caps), David Ribbans (Northampton Saints, 3 caps), Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, 57 caps), Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 75 caps), Jack Walker (Harlequins, uncapped), Jack Willis (Toulouse, 6 caps) Backs: Henry Arundell (London Irish, 3 caps), Owen Farrell (Saracens, 102 caps), Tommy Freeman (Northampton Saints, 3 caps), Ollie Hassell-Collins (London Irish, 1 cap), Ollie Lawrence (Bath Rugby, 8 caps), Max Malins (Saracens, 15 caps), Joe Marchant (Harlequins, 14 caps), Alex Mitchell (Northampton Saints, 1 cap), Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 52 caps), Fin Smith (Northampton Saints, uncapped), Marcus Smith (Harlequins, 18 caps), Freddie Steward (Leicester Tigers, 18 caps), Manu Tuilagi (Sale Sharks, 50 caps), Jack van Poortvliet (Leicester Tigers, 8 caps) I'll be there. I'll give you a wave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 1 minute ago, BucksRam said: I'll be there. I'll give you a wave. Not jealous at alll.... BucksRam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 2 hours ago, 86 Hair Islands said: Slade has played both roles and has done for England. Joe Marchant is more of a specialised 13 so assuming Slade comes in, he'll be at 12. For the record, Slade is well over 6 foot and nigh-on 100Kg. Borthwick would have wanted Dan Kelly to be starting at 12 - he's a big strong lad who was meant to offer a bit of go-forward - but along with pretty much every other viable / proven option, he's out for the foreseeable. Ojomo, Northmore and maybe Odogwu could fit the 13 brief, but it's hard to know whether they're ready for Test rugby yet. Eddie tried Atkinson, but to my eye, he looked pretty ordinary. I certainly wouldn't be writing off Manu just yet in any case. Being dropped might just re-light the fire. I hadnt paid much attention to exactly where slade plays when with England - my informal recollection was he usually comes on as a replacement in the 13 position but that is not science. The data showing on the all.rugby site states as follows - he's certainly a big unit (possibly deceptively so), but the split of his appearances is interesting - he has apparently played more at 10 than at 12 - but obviously not for England. Whether this is gospel, who knows as i dont follow exeter and how specialised positions are these days is conjectural - my point of reference is the WC2003 side which had "bruiser" mike tindall at 12 and the much more skilful Will Greenwood at 13. Henry SLADE 29 years, Centre Bio Henry SLADE is a 29-year-old English rugby player standing at 1.94 m tall (6 ft 4 in) and weighing in at 98 kg (15 st 6.05 lb; 216.05 lb) , who currently plays for Exeter Chiefs in England as centre. Nationality of origin England Sporting nationality England Occupied positions by Henry on start team : Center : 175 times ( Outside Centre 76%, Inside Centre 10% ) Fly-Half : 27 times ( Fly-Half 13% ) Fullback : 1 times ( Fullback 0% ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 26 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said: I hadnt paid much attention to exactly where slade plays when with England - my informal recollection was he usually comes on as a replacement in the 13 position but that is not science. The data showing on the all.rugby site states as follows - he's certainly a big unit (possibly deceptively so), but the split of his appearances is interesting - he has apparently played more at 10 than at 12 - but obviously not for England. Whether this is gospel, who knows as i dont follow exeter and how specialised positions are these days is conjectural - my point of reference is the WC2003 side which had "bruiser" mike tindall at 12 and the much more skilful Will Greenwood at 13. Henry SLADE 29 years, Centre Bio Henry SLADE is a 29-year-old English rugby player standing at 1.94 m tall (6 ft 4 in) and weighing in at 98 kg (15 st 6.05 lb; 216.05 lb) , who currently plays for Exeter Chiefs in England as centre. Nationality of origin England Sporting nationality England Occupied positions by Henry on start team : Center : 175 times ( Outside Centre 76%, Inside Centre 10% ) Fly-Half : 27 times ( Fly-Half 13% ) Fullback : 1 times ( Fullback 0% ) Yep, he's the one with guile, a turn of foot and decent passing off either hand so there's no argument he's more suited to 13. And yes, he was originally a 10 but ended up playing 13 which I don't think he was entirely pleased about at the time. FWIW, I'm not suggesting that he should play 12, only that I think he may well do if Marchant is retained. The latter has been a small ray of light in an otherwise line-break free zone and is worth persisting with IMO, so it'll be interesting to see what Borthwick decides to do. The Smith-Farrell axis, whilst understandable, won't be popular and I think if he plays one or t'other, he'll go with Farrell. Not a popular opinion, but that would be my call too. Smith is obviously England's future, but whilst we do see the dynamism from time to time that he shows weekly at the Stoop, I think EJ managed to coach it out of him (temporarily, I hope) and perhaps more importantly, his tactical kicking is not up to scratch and needs work. It's mostly aimless and merely turns over possession. That said, Nick Evans will doubtless be working hard to get him playing his natural game and I still think he's a world-class 10 waiting to happen. Hard for Borthwick really, as he has to decide whether to try and steady the ship, thereby appearing conservative, or whether to risk the wrath of unsettled fans and go balls to wall with new and exciting talent and build for RWC2027. I'd much prefer the latter, but it's piss easy to for me to choose that option when I'm not going to be the one getting pelters if it all goes tits up. In a perfect world, I'd love to see Quirke, Smith, Ojomo, Slade, Marchant, Malins and Arundel in back field with Freddie Steward running from deep. Not sure I ever will though. It's a frustrating game being an England rugby fan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 7 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said: Yep, he's the one with guile, a turn of foot and decent passing off either hand so there's no argument he's more suited to 13. And yes, he was originally a 10 but ended up playing 13 which I don't think he was entirely pleased about at the time. FWIW, I'm not suggesting that he should play 12, only that I think he may well do if Marchant is retained. The latter has been a small ray of light in an otherwise line-break free zone and is worth persisting with IMO, so it'll be interesting to see what Borthwick decides to do. The Smith-Farrell axis, whilst understandable, won't be popular and I think if he plays one or t'other, he'll go with Farrell. Not a popular opinion, but that would be my call too. Smith is obviously England's future, but whilst we do see the dynamism from time to time that he shows weekly at the Stoop, I think EJ managed to coach it out of him (temporarily, I hope) and perhaps more importantly, his tactical kicking is not up to scratch and needs work. It's mostly aimless and merely turns over possession. That said, Nick Evans will doubtless be working hard to get him playing his natural game and I still think he's a world-class 10 waiting to happen. Hard for Borthwick really, as he has to decide whether to try and steady the ship, thereby appearing conservative, or whether to risk the wrath of unsettled fans and go balls to wall with new and exciting talent and build for RWC2027. I'd much prefer the latter, but it's piss easy to for me to choose that option when I'm not going to be the one getting pelters if it all goes tits up. In a perfect world, I'd love to see Quirke, Smith, Ojomo, Slade, Marchant, Malins and Arundel in back field with Freddie Steward running from deep. Not sure I ever will though. It's a frustrating game being an England rugby fan! i would be in your camp there. Occasionally the RFU surprise and delight such as appointing a very young Will Carling as captain. As we have discussed, my personal jury on Steve B will be out for a little while yet, but i am pleased to see him moving on - dropping Ben Youngs for example who has been an excellent servant but is not the future. I am a veteran armchair follower from the 1970s as a teen - progress for England then was any score not divisible by 3, as that meant they hadnt just kicked pens..... we also were generally pretty hopeless.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 For a bit of balance (read: me not moaning about England!) a link for the Wales squad. Gat's gone full beast-mode after they were thoroughly outclassed by Ireland. No surprise to see AWJ dropped, but Tips and Faletau? That said, when you look at the admittedly super inexperienced back row of Christ Tshiunza, Jac Morgan and Tommy Reffell, you'd have to be excited. These lads could play together for years and I reckon Jac Morgan just might be a superstar in waiting. I said Scotland ought to be favourites to beat England and you'd think that would be even more true against Wales, but I'd not be surprised to see a significant improvement from the Welsh. Winning in Murrayfield though, is a tough brief. More here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/64555559 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 1 minute ago, Van der MoodHoover said: i would be in your camp there. Occasionally the RFU surprise and delight such as appointing a very young Will Carling as captain. As we have discussed, my personal jury on Steve B will be out for a little while yet, but i am pleased to see him moving on - dropping Ben Youngs for example who has been an excellent servant but is not the future. I am a veteran armchair follower from the 1970s as a teen - progress for England then was any score not divisible by 3, as that meant they hadnt just kicked pens..... we also were generally pretty hopeless.... It's not exactly been a golden era, has it? I think it's hurt more in recent years as whilst we were genuinely rubbish for long periods, I do think we've been massively underperforming at times too and especially of late. I do really rate Eddie Jones as a coach. Anyone who can mastermind a win for Japan over the mighty Saffas at a World Cup has got to have some serious skills, but it seemed to me that he let his ego override common sense, hammering at the same doors over and over just so he could thumb his nose at the media, whom he clearly loathed. Anyway, I need to stop whining about it. I swear I'm becoming exactly the type of fan that annoys me most ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BucksRam Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 38 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said: It's not exactly been a golden era, has it? I think it's hurt more in recent years as whilst we were genuinely rubbish for long periods, I do think we've been massively underperforming at times too and especially of late. I do really rate Eddie Jones as a coach. Anyone who can mastermind a win for Japan over the mighty Saffas at a World Cup has got to have some serious skills, but it seemed to me that he let his ego override common sense, hammering at the same doors over and over just so he could thumb his nose at the media, whom he clearly loathed. Anyway, I need to stop whining about it. I swear I'm becoming exactly the type of fan that annoys me most ? But if you stop whining I'll have nothing to read ? Comrade 86 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted February 10, 2023 Author Share Posted February 10, 2023 Borthwick's team for Italy - Smith dropped to bench and Marchant out altogether. England: Steward; Malins, Slade, Lawrence, Hassell-Collins; Farrell (c), Van Pooertvliet; Genge, George, Sinckler; Itoje, Chessum; Ludlam, Willis, Dombrandt Replacements: Walker, M Vunipola, Cole, Isiekwe, Earl, Mitchell, M Smith, Arundell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted February 10, 2023 Author Share Posted February 10, 2023 53 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said: Borthwick's team for Italy - Smith dropped to bench and Marchant out altogether. England: Steward; Malins, Slade, Lawrence, Hassell-Collins; Farrell (c), Van Pooertvliet; Genge, George, Sinckler; Itoje, Chessum; Ludlam, Willis, Dombrandt Replacements: Walker, M Vunipola, Cole, Isiekwe, Earl, Mitchell, M Smith, Arundell Feared the worst but initial reaction seems to be very positive from the England supporters. Thought Ollie Lawrence was injured so VDM will be happy to see a big unit in at 12 with the silky Slade next-door. Fingers and everything else crossed for a decent performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 33 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said: Feared the worst but initial reaction seems to be very positive from the England supporters. Thought Ollie Lawrence was injured so VDM will be happy to see a big unit in at 12 with the silky Slade next-door. Fingers and everything else crossed for a decent performance. Shorter and heavier.......a real wrecking ball.... ....who again seems to play the great majority of his games at 13. Don't we have any 12's any more? i hope arundell gets some minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted February 10, 2023 Author Share Posted February 10, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said: Shorter and heavier.......a real wrecking ball.... ....who again seems to play the great majority of his games at 13. Don't we have any 12's any more? i hope arundell gets some minutes. Gotta say he wouldn't have been my first pick, but hopefully he does ok. As for Arundel, hopefully, yes. He seems a little wasted stuck on the flank to my mind but I am his biggest fangirl and whilst he could play 15, Freddie Steward is pretty classy. I'd actually love to see Arundel in midfield but I don't think it'll happen, more's the pity. Despite being ridiculously rapid, he's 6 foot and 100Kg so he has the physical attributes, but in all honesty, I don't know too much about the defensive side of his game. EDIT: U20s 6N games on iPlayer tonight for anyone who fancies watching them Edited February 10, 2023 by 86 Hair Islands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted February 10, 2023 Author Share Posted February 10, 2023 Sorry chaps, bum steer, games actually on BBC Sport website: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live-guide/rugby-union Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EtoileSportiveDeDerby Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 Tough one for us today. Really needed to up our game from what we showed against Italy last week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted February 11, 2023 Author Share Posted February 11, 2023 46 minutes ago, EtoileSportiveDeDerby said: Tough one for us today. Really needed to up our game from what we showed against Italy last week Wouldn't surprise me at all to see the French outgun the Irish today. I put up the latter as this year's 6N champions based on home field advantage in this particular game, but the more I look at individual match ups, the more I think the French have the necessary firepower to turn over our Celtic buddies. I'd be ignoring the Italy form line, as the French never turn up against Italy. Should be an absolute belter in any case. Allez les bleus! EtoileSportiveDeDerby 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 My wingback armchair is being prepared as we speak. 2 great games today. Actually looking forward to hopefully seeing Italy being very competitive tomorrow. The 6N needs strong competition. Comrade 86 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted February 11, 2023 Author Share Posted February 11, 2023 15 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said: My wingback armchair is being prepared as we speak. 2 great games today. Actually looking forward to hopefully seeing Italy being very competitive tomorrow. The 6N needs strong competition. Too much good sport today! Am utilising multiple devices, much to the irritation of the fairer half ? Van der MoodHoover 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee SCREAMER !! Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 France are filthy. Already should have a red and a yellow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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