Old-fashioned NASA Moon rocket (SLS) test flight

[Carl Sagan]

Tomorrow (Monday 29th August) is the first uncrewed launch attempt of the SLS, NASA's Space Launch System which is the rocket that's the main part of the Artemis programme to see Humans return to the Moon, hopefully by 2025. 

It will probably surprise people on here to learn I'm not a fan. This is just trying to rebuild the 1960s Apollo technology (Artemis was Apollo's twin sister). There's talk that this time we're returning to the Moon to stay, but if we have to rely on on SLS this is fatuous. Unlike modern rockets, this one is disposable. You use it just the one time to launch and then you throw it away. The development all through the different incarnations has cost a quite staggering and repulsive $50bn dollars and then, each launch will cost between $2-4bn more. What an extraordinary waste of money, insisted upon by certain Senators in America to spread the work around factories in their states. This is what we call "old space" where old-fashioned contractors such as Boeing were awarded lucrative contracts where it was in their interests to delay the project and see cost overruns because these were "cost-plus" contracts so, when that happened, the American taxpayer picked up the bill via NASA. One of the good space journalists, Eric Berger has written about it here:

I think we're far enough along with Artemis that it won't be stopped now, so the best thing that could happen would be for SLS to fail (as long as no one gets hurt) and for people to realize it's simply daft to build another SLS to test without crew, instead diverting the funds to commercial rockets such as Starship.

The best thing about Artemis is that, while enlightened people at NASA realized they couldn't go up against Congress and cancel the SLS, they were able to give the contract for the lunar lander to SpaceX who will land people back on the Moon in their giant Starship, the forthcoming Mars rocket. Obviously it would be way more sensible to simply launch Starship to the Moon and land there, but instead the Artemis programme wants to launch on SLS, with a tiny crew capsule on the top called Orion. Then SLS gets thrown away and Orion heads to the Moon, where it rendezvous with Starship and the astronauts transfer across. Originally there was an additional complication that the rockets would all need more fuel to make them stop in orbit around the Moon first at a new space station called the Lunaar Gateway, transferring from Orion to that and then from the Gateway into Starship, but the Gateway is so absurdly expensive they've had to shelve that for the time being. But, stupidly, they're still talking about building it.

The Artemis launch on Bank Holiday Monday is currently due at 1.33pm UK time, but nothing with this rocket works straight off so I expect it will be a few days/weeks late. But I shall be watching the live stream just in case. Several of my space friends are very excited about it and over in Florida to watch the launch.

[maxjam]

I was too young to remember the last time we went to the moon, I'm hoping that everything goes well with this test flight and we stick to the schedule to return in a few years.  Exciting times ?

This youtube channel will be livestreaming the launch

 

 

[maxjam]

Launched cancelled today due to engine issue ?

Next available launch date (assuming the engine issue is fixed) is 2nd Sept. 

Edited August 29, 2022 by maxjam

[Boycie]

I can see the rocket engineers saying to the finance department whilst knocking on the rocket with a spanner “ohh that’s gunna cost, I’ll have a ring around to see if I can get parts a bit cheaper”

[Day]

22 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Launched cancelled today due to engine issue ?

Next available launch date (assuming the engine issue is fixed) is 2nd Sept. 

Sounds like easyJet

[Ram-Alf]

51 minutes ago, Boycie said:

I can see the rocket engineers saying to the finance department whilst knocking on the rocket with a spanner “ohh that’s gunna cost, I’ll have a ring around to see if I can get parts a bit cheaper”

They had these left over from the Space Shuttle Challenger

 

[Carl Sagan]

17 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

The Artemis launch on Bank Holiday Monday is currently due at 1.33pm UK time, but nothing with this rocket works straight off so I expect it will be a few days/weeks late.

And so it transpired. While the launch window is open again on Friday, I expect they'll roll the rocket back off the launchpad and into the Vehicle Assembly Building (VAB) after which it will be a few weeks before we see it again.

30 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

They had these left over from the Space Shuttle Challenger

Too soon? 

[maxjam]

Another attempt today, link nr top of page is still valid. 

Two hour launch window from 5:15pm - hope its nearer the end of the window so I'm back home to watch!

[Boycie]

Cancelled.

[maxjam]

Leak apparently whilst loading nearly 1 million gallons of fuel...

Better give Elon a ring (and not just for picking up the tab at the gas station ?)

[Stive Pesley]

On 03/09/2022 at 19:14, Boycie said:

Cancelled.

Did the rocket say something racist on twitter when it was a younger rocket?

[Boycie]

1 hour ago, Stive Pesley said:

Did the rocket say something racist on twitter when it was a younger rocket?

Yes, it said it thought it’s sights were set on Uranus. ?

Edited September 4, 2022 by Boycie

[Carl Sagan]

At this point they're "rolling it back" into the Vehicle Assembly Building (or VAB) for a thorough inspection and the chance to replace things if required, before claiming they'll try again in October. Increasingly my expectation is that they won't launch until next year. 

The longer they wait the more chance for the Starship from SpaceX to beat SLS into orbit, at which point this flawed Moon rocket (SLS) will look even more of a white elephant. Why spend 4 billion dollars every launch on a rocket you then have to throw away, when you can use a far more capable rocket in Starship that's around a hundred times cheaper (ie 40 million) and will eventually only cost the price of the fuel. Which, incidentally, isn't liquid hydrogen because, as NASA is demonstrating, that's incredibly difficult to work with and keep contained! 

[Stive Pesley]

3 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

At this point they're "rolling it back" into the Vehicle Assembly Building (or VAB) for a thorough inspection and the chance to replace things if required, before claiming they'll try again in October. Increasingly my expectation is that they won't launch until next year. 

The longer they wait the more chance for the Starship from SpaceX to beat SLS into orbit, at which point this flawed Moon rocket (SLS) will look even more of a white elephant. Why spend 4 billion dollars every launch on a rocket you then have to throw away, when you can use a far more capable rocket in Starship that's around a hundred times cheaper (ie 40 million) and will eventually only cost the price of the fuel. Which, incidentally, isn't liquid hydrogen because, as NASA is demonstrating, that's incredibly difficult to work with and keep contained! 

I was reading earlier that there is quite a lot of solar activity at the moment which might not make the conditions too good for blasting into space any time in the next few weeks. Not sure how true that is?

[Boycie]

4 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

I was reading earlier that there is quite a lot of solar activity at the moment which might not make the conditions too good for blasting into space any time in the next few weeks. Not sure how true that is?

That’ll be my missus with her solar lights in the garden, I’ve told her it’s way OTT.

[Carl Sagan]

4 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

I was reading earlier that there is quite a lot of solar activity at the moment which might not make the conditions too good for blasting into space any time in the next few weeks. Not sure how true that is?

In the 11-year solar cycle we're building towards maximum solar activity mid-2025, so it's still a way off. Don't think there's anything particularly untoward at the moment. The big events we can't predict are coronal mass ejections and those cause problems if pointed in the direction of Earth (quite rare). It's only easy(ish) to predict when there's a coronal hole (which also causes enhanced activity) and because the Sun rotates every 26 days we know in advance when it's going to happen again. 

Which is a tip if you're ever on a northern lights holiday, to try to go 24 or 25 days after the last big aurora to give you a better chance of spotting the next one.

[Grumpy Git]

I have trouble with my coronal hole more frequently than every 26 days. That also tends to result in a mass ejection.

[Stive Pesley]

11 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

In the 11-year solar cycle we're building towards maximum solar activity mid-2025, so it's still a way off. Don't think there's anything particularly untoward at the moment. The big events we can't predict are coronal mass ejections and those cause problems if pointed in the direction of Earth (quite rare). It's only easy(ish) to predict when there's a coronal hole (which also causes enhanced activity) and because the Sun rotates every 26 days we know in advance when it's going to happen again. 

Which is a tip if you're ever on a northern lights holiday, to try to go 24 or 25 days after the last big aurora to give you a better chance of spotting the next one.

I found the article but it's paywalled - the relevant bit is

Quote

Sunspot AR3089 developed a delta-class magnetic field. What makes a Delta class sunspot interesting is that they become destructive, in that they are capable of launching X-class solar flares into the galaxy. This particular one was aimed at Earth.

The Delta-class sunspot, AR3089, caused alarm due to its potential to harbor energy for the X-class solar flare. Of the classifications of solar flares, X-class solar flares carry the capacity to take out satellites in orbit, disrupt equipment on space ships (such as the Artemis test flights), create radio disruptions, and take down the power grids on earth.

X-class flares are the strongest even though there is quite a variation in the classification when it comes to strength and the potential damage they can cause. They can produce as much energy as a billion hydrogen bombs on the most intense end of the scale.

It was the mention of Artemis that I remembered

 

[Gaspode]

8 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

I found the article but it's paywalled - the relevant bit is

It was the mention of Artemis that I remembered

 

Jeez, the tranformers are involved as well?