Academy Thread 21/22

[Ravabeerbelly]

30 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

If anything, Rooney's comments prove you wrong on Kellyman. He didn't include him in the squad to get more money, it was because he rated him highly and saw him as part of his squad in the long term. At the time, we had no fit CFs, so it was down to Cybulski, Zion Dixon or Kellyman. None are anywhere near ready for the first team, so he opted for the one who he felt had the best long term prospect.
On Gordon, it was more likely that Rooney was trying to tempt him to stay by showing him the route to the first team. I bet he'd have been starting pretty much every game this season if he did stay

I’m sure you’re clever enough to know that’s really not the case even is you can make a compelling argument.

Rooneys comments only prove he may not have wanted him to go. But once it was clear it would happen (for whatever reason) it’s obvious he was included to increase the value. If he’d earned it or was ready he’d have been selected and / or played again.

Same with Gordon. Realistically the pathway is always there but not in that time frame.

[RoyMac5]

7 minutes ago, Ravabeerbelly said:

I’d they were better they’d be selected for the 23s and judged on whether they can make that step up. It’s quite a simple concept…If you’re proving good enough step up to the next level….it makes a mockery of the levels if you’re able to bypass one without having proven yourself in it.

But they've been sold? 

You were suggesting they were leap-frogging for no reason.

[Ghost of Clough]

11 minutes ago, Ravabeerbelly said:

I’m sure you’re clever enough to know that’s really not the case even is you can make a compelling argument.

Rooneys comments only prove he may not have wanted him to go. But once it was clear it would happen (for whatever reason) it’s obvious he was included to increase the value. If he’d earned it or was ready he’d have been selected and / or played again.

Same with Gordon. Realistically the pathway is always there but not in that time frame.

Rooney didn't even think Kellyamn was leaving until told via text that he had already been shown out the door.

Which CFs were fit and available when Kellyman was included in the match day squad, and which of those have appeared in a match day squad since?

[Ravabeerbelly]

27 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Rooney didn't even think Kellyamn was leaving until told via text that he had already been shown out the door.

Which CFs were fit and available when Kellyman was included in the match day squad, and which of those have appeared in a match day squad since?

Being told he was leaving and being aware of the interest and being told it would help everyone if he had a first team game under his belt is a completely different matter, you know that. 

I don’t know who was and wasn’t available at that time but the fact is if Kellyman had been tearing up trees, even in the 18s, he’d have been playing for the 23s at least.

Im not being argumentative here, this is simple logic. If the kid was showing exceptional progress he’d have been promoted to the 23s before there was even any interest in him.

[Ravabeerbelly]

39 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

But they've been sold? 

You were suggesting they were leap-frogging for no reason.

No, I was suggesting they leapfrogged in order to increase value for the sale. No one was buying these players based on what they have done they’ve bought them based on talent ID and potentially what they may do. 

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, Ravabeerbelly said:

No, I was suggesting they leapfrogged in order to increase value for the sale. No one was buying these players based on what they have done they’ve bought them based on talent ID and potentially what they may do. 

I know that is your implication - so who shall we put on the bench next then? ?

[Ravabeerbelly]

5 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

I know that is your implication - so who shall we put on the bench next then? ?

There’s a lad in the u13s showing real talent…

[Ghost of Clough]

2 minutes ago, Ravabeerbelly said:

Being told he was leaving and being aware of the interest and being told it would help everyone if he had a first team game under his belt is a completely different matter, you know that. 

I don’t know who was and wasn’t available at that time but the fact is if Kellyman had been tearing up trees, even in the 18s, he’d have been playing for the 23s at least.

Im not being argumentative here, this is simple logic. If the kid was showing exceptional progress he’d have been promoted to the 23s before there was even any interest in him.

He was on the bench for the Bournemouth game - 21/11/21

Plange was only allowed to play for the first team from the Bristol game onwards - 4/12/21

Stretton was injured from October through to the end of January.

I also believe Cybulski couldn't play due to EFL restrictions.

[Ravabeerbelly]

1 minute ago, Ghost of Clough said:

He was on the bench for the Bournemouth game - 21/11/21

Plange was only allowed to play for the first team from the Bristol game onwards - 4/12/21

Stretton was injured from October through to the end of January.

I also believe Cybulski couldn't play due to EFL restrictions.

Let’s be honest, he was on the bench for another game where we were losing and he was the only forward and he didn’t come on so we may as well have had Larry the cat sitting there. If he was there on merit he’d have come on when we needed a goal.

[Crewton]

1 hour ago, Ravabeerbelly said:

Let’s be honest, he was on the bench for another game where we were losing and he was the only forward and he didn’t come on so we may as well have had Larry the cat sitting there. If he was there on merit he’d have come on when we needed a goal.

As Lawrence scored in the 62' and 69' minutes, I doubt that bringing a 16 year-old striker on to hold onto the lead was a tactic that crossed Rooney's mind for a second.

[Ravabeerbelly]

15 minutes ago, Crewton said:

As Lawrence scored in the 62' and 69' minutes, I doubt that bringing a 16 year-old striker on to hold onto the lead was a tactic that crossed Rooney's mind for a second.

If you read the post you’d know I wasn’t referring to the Bournemouth game 

[Jubbs]

2 hours ago, Ravabeerbelly said:

Let’s be honest, he was on the bench for another game where we were losing and he was the only forward and he didn’t come on so we may as well have had Larry the cat sitting there. If he was there on merit he’d have come on when we needed a goal.

And which game was this?

 

[Crewton]

1 hour ago, Ravabeerbelly said:

If you read the post you’d know I wasn’t referring to the Bournemouth game 

Quote

And which game was this?

I'm all ears....? ?

[Ravabeerbelly]

My mistake….it may have even been Gordon I was referring to. Same situation. Had he been there on merit he’d have come on. He didn’t.

[Jram]

1 hour ago, Ravabeerbelly said:

My mistake….it may have even been Gordon I was referring to. Same situation. Had he been there on merit he’d have come on. He didn’t.

I know what you’re saying- I often think “what’s the point in putting him on the bench, you’ll never bring him on unless we’re running away with it”

Rooney is slightly better for this but I think that’s largely because he only has academy lads. 
Used to be worse a few years ago when they’d put some academy player on the bench and then bring on joe Lesley when we were 3-0 up 

[Zag zig]

On 02/02/2022 at 19:22, RoyMac5 said:

Again except if they're any good they'd be better sold when they've shown more and we're higher up the league/Prem. ?

Just to add to our chat….

or before their contracts wind down. Ebosele is the most disappointing one now leaving for me, he could be anything right now, we’ve only seen a glimpse but wish he could have stuck around more years like Hughes. ?

[Crewton]

22 hours ago, Ravabeerbelly said:

My mistake….it may have even been Gordon I was referring to. Same situation. Had he been there on merit he’d have come on. He didn’t.

Gordon did come on away at Brum at the end of 2019/2020. 

There's also plenty of academy players we've put on the bench a few times before they've finally made it onto the pitch, usually in a game that's already won. There's nothing unusual about it. 

[Ghost of Clough]

9 minutes ago, Crewton said:

Gordon did come on away at Brum at the end of 2019/2020. 

There's also plenty of academy players we've put on the bench a few times before they've finally made it onto the pitch, usually in a game that's already won. There's nothing unusual about it. 

This. 
We've seen in several times under Rooney (and Cocu before him). A player travels with the squad a few times to get used to the environment, next is a spot on the bench, then coming on as a late sub.
The idea behind it is to acclimatise them prior to when they're actually needed. Luke Thomas ran onto the pitch and was on the wrong wing because of nerves. Other players are sick!

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

On 03/02/2022 at 13:00, Ravabeerbelly said:

There’s a lad in the u13s showing real talent…

Yes I’ve heard this. But also when I watched the U12s last season (U13s this) the whole team was very good. According to quite a few people within the academy, this is one of the best age groups they’ve seen as a group. 
 

There was one lad that stood out for me who was taking all set pieces. I’ve never seen anybody even in first team football take such a good set piece so consistently, always delivered where it needed to be. That was a boy who’s 12 years old. 
 

They are through to the quarter final of the National cup and playing Reading tomorrow. I’ll post the score as soon as I hear it. I believe they would play Chelsea in the semi final if they win. 

[Ghost of Clough]

18 minutes ago, Bald Eagle's Barmy Army said:

Yes I’ve heard this. But also when I watched the U12s last season (U13s this) the whole team was very good. According to quite a few people within the academy, this is one of the best age groups they’ve seen as a group. 
 

There was one lad that stood out for me who was taking all set pieces. I’ve never seen anybody even in first team football take such a good set piece so consistently, always delivered where it needed to be. That was a boy who’s 12 years old. 
 

They are through to the quarter final of the National cup and playing Reading tomorrow. I’ll post the score as soon as I hear it. I believe they would play Chelsea in the semi final if they win. 

And then Chelsea sign them all...