Rooney in charge: Yes or No?

[Day]

Went to try and find where Rooney is at with his coaching badges, found this back in January 2017

https://www.goal.com/en/news/rooney-taking-coaching-badges-as-he-reiterates-management/18omzj7jjnuzn1gmuhjp62xrqt

"I've publicly said before I'd like to go into management.

Obviously I'd have to complete my badges, which I'm doing at the minute.

I feel it'd be a shame to have the knowledge I feel I have about football and walk away from it once I've finished playing."

This has clearly been a long thought out career move, not an overnight ooh Derby/Coach yeah I’ll give it a bash, gets the missus back to the UK kind of decision.

[Day]

2 minutes ago, Chester40 said:

Exactly...  if you think he is very likely to get it are you going to say 'well to be honest, I really don't rate him.' 

Going off the point but I'm unfortunate in that I have quite a few close friends who are United season ticket holders. Almost universally if they talk affectionately about club legends they would have Keane, Cantona, Robson, Scholes, Ronaldo, Beckham ...over Rooney... Why is that ? 

I'm honestly not sure myself, but Frank and the bounce etc was a bit cheese but he was inherently kinda likeable (Klopp has that in spades) , some people have that arrogance like Ronaldo or Cantona (maybe Mourinho-esque), Keane/Robson had Fergie's drive and desire. Beckham has that glamour... Scholes is the quiet, unassuming one club man who just gets the job done and everyone agrees he won't ever make it as a manager. 

Wayne is...just well Wazza. Goal machine, will play anywhere. But is always under valued.

But why? Is it a perceived lack of personality?? 

That’s exactly what I would expect if that’s how they felt. These are professional footballs, going down effects their careers.

I doubt the players will be asked, don’t think it’s seen as the thing to do, but I would. 

The club will know who the senior figures are in the dressing room, quick chat with them privately on their own. Run your ideas past them.

It’s not that whacky if you accept that player power does exist and the way the game is now, it’s unlikely to change. 

Happy players = better performances. Not as simple as that, but unhappy players will get you nowhere and we can’t afford that in the position we’re in.

[Leeds Ram]

13 minutes ago, David said:

I really don’t understand why you keep referencing Lampard’s IQ. If you are labelling him an outlier on that alone, then it probably is a fact. 

But if you’re not calling Rooney thick, which in fairness you haven’t, why bring IQ into it? Does feel like an indirect way of calling him thick which I have shown quotes from Lampard himself on Rooney who says they are lazy opinions. Or don’t we trust his opinion despite his IQ?

I don’t recall it ever coming up when discussing McClaren or Rowett’s appointments to measure their potential success with is so why now?

Because Lampard was a rookie and so is Rooney? Maybe I’m too thick to understand why this appears to matter so much it’s being brought up again.

I want our manager to win football matches, not mensa certificates.

Have you ever thought the two might bear some relation and aren't completely devoid of one another? If we're talking about someone's ability to embrace all the dynamic change from being a player to a full time manager, compete against other managers rather than other players when you're ability doesn't stack you in a massively naturally advantageous position then that involves a huge amount of adaptability and a very steep learning curve. So actually, raw intelligence not education matters a great deal in terms of how quickly they can adapt and excel in a role. 

Lampard was well known for squeezing every last drop of ability out of himself and for being astute as a player. He's also known for being particularly intelligent which makes him more likely to be highly adaptable and pick up things quickly. This is especially important for someone who is a rookie manager. As I said in a previous post, an experienced manager has had years to develop their skillset and improve and thus someone's natural ability becomes less of a factor. Lampard is an outlier and an extreme example of this. Rooney might well be relatively competent and given 3-5 years of training become a solid manager. That's a whole different proposition from knocking off the training wheels on what is essentially a managerial baby at a relatively big second division club. 

Now, as I said these aren't the only factors in play. You also need the ability to motivate, have good interpersonal skills and be a leader. Rooney was regularly a disruptive influence at Man Utd when he didn't get his way, tried to force a move not once but twice and his role as captain here has hardly been inspired. Personally, he doesn't strike me as a particularly fantastic leader of men and he's not exactly charismatic is he. Now, you don't need to be charismatic if you're a tactical genius like Bielsa... but again he's an outlier. 

In your hypothesis of everyone's a risk so why distinguish between experience and rookies how do you measure who you would prefer? Because, unless you're just being contrarian, apart from the fact he's had a good playing career and is 'high profile' and exciting I can't think of a reason you've actually given why Rooney is a better candidate than the managers with established track records. 

[Day]

8 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

Have you ever thought the two might bear some relation and aren't completely devoid of one another? If we're talking about someone's ability to embrace all the dynamic change from being a player to a full time manager, compete against other managers rather than other players when you're ability doesn't stack you in a massively naturally advantageous position then that involves a huge amount of adaptability and a very steep learning curve. So actually, raw intelligence not education matters a great deal in terms of how quickly they can adapt and excel in a role. 

Lampard was well known for squeezing every last drop of ability out of himself and for being astute as a player. He's also known for being particularly intelligent which makes him more likely to be highly adaptable and pick up things quickly. This is especially important for someone who is a rookie manager. As I said in a previous post, an experienced manager has had years to develop their skillset and improve and thus someone's natural ability becomes less of a factor. Lampard is an outlier and an extreme example of this. Rooney might well be relatively competent and given 3-5 years of training become a solid manager. That's a whole different proposition from knocking off the training wheels on what is essentially a managerial baby at a relatively big second division club. 

Now, as I said these aren't the only factors in play. You also need the ability to motivate, have good interpersonal skills and be a leader. Rooney was regularly a disruptive influence at Man Utd when he didn't get his way, tried to force a move not once but twice and his role as captain here has hardly been inspired. Personally, he doesn't strike me as a particularly fantastic leader of men and he's not exactly charismatic is he. Now, you don't need to be charismatic if you're a tactical genius like Bielsa... but again he's an outlier. 

In your hypothesis of everyone's a risk so why distinguish between experience and rookies how do you measure who you would prefer? Because, unless you're just being contrarian, apart from the fact he's had a good playing career and is 'high profile' and exciting I can't think of a reason you've actually given why Rooney is a better candidate than the managers with established track records. 

I don’t no.

Whilst I appreciate Lampard is known to be an intelligent man, I don’t think we should be comparing all potential managers IQ scores.

It’s coming across as either he needs a Mensa certificate or experience elsewhere in which case we’ll just ignore their IQ.

Rooney is no mug, I’ve provided you with articles which clearly state this including Lampard quote, the internet is littered with more which you clearly disagree with as you’re continuing to push this IQ competition between the pair.

As for Rooney trying to force moves, he’s a winner, wanted to play and felt he wasn’t being used correctly.

In his prime, he would come deep, find the ball, wasn’t content standing around with his hands in his pocket, he wanted to make things happen. That’s him and you would never want to change that.

For me, this only strengthens my views in that he could potentially be exactly what we need. A real desire to win.

As for my hypothesis, I have written at length in many posts today why I believe he could be the right man if you look back.

Probably be quicker to agree to disagree at this point, as it feels like we’re going round in circles on this IQ thing which I’m struggling to see the relevance of.

[Leeds Ram]

7 minutes ago, David said:

I don’t no.

Whilst I appreciate Lampard is known to be an intelligent man, I don’t think we should be comparing all potential managers IQ scores.

It’s coming across as either he needs a Mensa certificate or experience elsewhere in which case we’ll just ignore their IQ.

Rooney is no mug, I’ve provided you with articles which clearly state this including Lampard quote, the internet is littered with more which you clearly disagree with as you’re continuing to push this IQ competition between the pair.

As for Rooney trying to force moves, he’s a winner, wanted to play and felt he wasn’t being used correctly.

In his prime, he would come deep, find the ball, wasn’t content standing around with his hands in his pocket, he wanted to make things happen. That’s him and you would never want to change that.

For me, this only strengthens my views in that he could potentially be exactly what we need. A real desire to win.

As for my hypothesis, I have written at length in many posts today why I believe he could be the right man if you look back.

Probably be quicker to agree to disagree at this point, as it feels like we’re going round in circles on this IQ thing which I’m struggling to see the relevance of.

It's best just to agree to disagree at this point. I haven't looked through all the thread today as have been jumping between this and work so sorry if I've missed your points as to why Rooney would be a great manager. 

[Day]

4 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

It's best just to agree to disagree at this point. I haven't looked through all the thread today as have been jumping between this and work so sorry if I've missed your points as to why Rooney would be a great manager. 

If you’re looking for me saying “great” manager, you won’t find it. You will find me write why I wouldn’t dismiss it completely and why it might not be as bonkers as it sounds.

There is also another topic where I picked Howe over him but doubt he would be interested in the job.

We’ve talked a lot about risks, but there is also a risk from the managers side. Wasn’t long ago Howe was being linked with the England job. Why did he walk from Bournemouth?

I can see him waiting for Lennon to get the boot up at Celtic, go up there, win a couple of league titles and wait for a Prem club to come calling.

If I’m wrong, and he is available and interested that’s why our efforts should be focused. 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

23 minutes ago, David said:

I don’t no.

Whilst I appreciate Lampard is known to be an intelligent man, I don’t think we should be comparing all potential managers IQ scores.

It’s coming across as either he needs a Mensa certificate or experience elsewhere in which case we’ll just ignore their IQ.

Rooney is no mug, I’ve provided you with articles which clearly state this including Lampard quote, the internet is littered with more which you clearly disagree with as you’re continuing to push this IQ competition between the pair.

As for Rooney trying to force moves, he’s a winner, wanted to play and felt he wasn’t being used correctly.

In his prime, he would come deep, find the ball, wasn’t content standing around with his hands in his pocket, he wanted to make things happen. That’s him and you would never want to change that.

For me, this only strengthens my views in that he could potentially be exactly what we need. A real desire to win.

As for my hypothesis, I have written at length in many posts today why I believe he could be the right man if you look back.

Probably be quicker to agree to disagree at this point, as it feels like we’re going round in circles on this IQ thing which I’m struggling to see the relevance of.

Open to persuasion in respect of Rooney and indeed any candidate as it stands (including assistants) so interesting to read your point of view here.

I'm wouldn't ever be surprised to find that there was some element of him exerting his will in respect of the end of Cocus tenure here,as to just how much and how,I'm sure we will probably never know.

However the winners in this world rarely find success is handed to them,they make it their aim and then go onto succeed whilst their peers fail and I'm sure that Rooney falls into that category.

 

[Day]

3 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

Open to persuasion in respect of Rooney and indeed any candidate as it stands (including assistants) so interesting to read your point of view here.

I'm wouldn't ever be surprised to find that there was some element of him exerting his will in respect of the end of Cocus tenure here,as to just how much and how,I'm sure we will probably never know.

However the winners in this world rarely find success is handed to them,they make it their aim and then go onto succeed whilst their peers fail and I'm sure that Rooney falls into that category.

 

I’ve seen people link the recent media reports to Rooney’s agent, I think people forget he was touted for the job the minute he walked through the door.

To rehash this whilst we are sat bottom of the table was always predictable. 

I don’t want to entertain the idea he has possibly undermined Cocu in any way and his performances on the pitch reflect that. 

Not helpful in anyway whilst we’re in this situation. 

He’s found himself playing up top due to a lack of options, a position he hasn’t played for quite a while. It’s no surprise he has struggled. But he’s not alone. Others have also failed to step up to the plate. 

[Wolfie20]

1 hour ago, David said:

I really don’t understand why you keep referencing Lampard’s IQ. If you are labelling him an outlier on that alone, then it probably is a fact. 

But if you’re not calling Rooney thick, which in fairness you haven’t, why bring IQ into it? Does feel like an indirect way of calling him thick which I have shown quotes from Lampard himself on Rooney who says they are lazy opinions. Or don’t we trust his opinion despite his IQ?

I don’t recall it ever coming up when discussing McClaren or Rowett’s appointments to measure their potential success with is so why now?

Because Lampard was a rookie and so is Rooney? Maybe I’m too thick to understand why this appears to matter so much it’s being brought up again.

I want our manager to win football matches, not mensa certificates.

Quite a few fans were questioning his IQ when the team to play Villa at Wembley was announced (with justification).

[strawhillram]

1 hour ago, David said:

Went to try and find where Rooney is at with his coaching badges, found this back in January 2017

https://www.goal.com/en/news/rooney-taking-coaching-badges-as-he-reiterates-management/18omzj7jjnuzn1gmuhjp62xrqt

"I've publicly said before I'd like to go into management.

Obviously I'd have to complete my badges, which I'm doing at the minute.

I feel it'd be a shame to have the knowledge I feel I have about football and walk away from it once I've finished playing."

This has clearly been a long thought out career move, not an overnight ooh Derby/Coach yeah I’ll give it a bash, gets the missus back to the UK kind of decision.

Taken him nearly 4 years so far. That’s a good sign that he’s a quick learner

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, StrawHillRam said:

Taken him nearly 4 years so far. That’s a good sign that he’s a quick learner

Yeah cos all those past managers of Derby have had badges - Cycling Proficiency, Tufty Club, Golly... 

[Day]

6 minutes ago, StrawHillRam said:

Taken him nearly 4 years so far. That’s a good sign that he’s a quick learner

To be fair he’s still playing, Lampard took a year out to complete his badges before taking us on

[Day]

8 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said:

Quite a few fans were questioning his IQ when the team to play Villa at Wembley was announced (with justification).

Ha, yeah as much as I loved that season, the decision will always baffle. Not convinced the result would have been any different.

When he came on it was late in the game, tired Villa legs, injuries.

One of those we’ll never knows. Bit like Bryson v QPR.

[Gritty]

The fact of the matter is Rooney is completely unproven as a manager.  Nobody knows how he'll turn out for sure.  

But we're in a relegation battle.  Teams on our points total after the same number of games we've played are typically in a relegation battle all season. 

Now is not the time for some experiment with a first time manager who hasn't so much as managed an academy team (and one who has never been in a relegation battle in his career as a player either).

Appointing him (or Terry) would be a massive gamble and a massive mistake

[BaaLocks]

Good question, if you are referring to Colleen - after all that seems to be what the BBC thinks Derby fans are caring about today