Coronavirus

[G STAR RAM]

28 minutes ago, BIllyD said:

So you'd make the decision to open up the country without knowing if they are effective or not and do it regardless  ? Just wondering where you think the government are going wrong at the moment.

Without knowing if what is effective?

[BIllyD]

Just now, G STAR RAM said:

Without knowing if what is effective?

Well I presumed if you were opening up in a month you must be waiting for the vaccine to take effect ? Maybe I misunderstood, what's happening in a month that makes it justified to lift the lockdowns in your opinion ?

[Albert]

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

You forget to mention that the incompetent Government have taken advice from scientists.

We are where we are, and yet some such as yourself, now seem to want to agree with the incompetent Government and extend their controlling of our liberties despite there being no valid reason for them doing so.

If they listened to the advice the UK wouldn't have been in this position, that's been the whole problem. They've played a game of 'pick and choose' with the advice, and didn't heed the lessons of the past with pandemics. Countries in Asia and Oceania haven't succeeded due to some miracle, they succeeded because they implemented that advice. 

Even just following the advice to lockdown back in September before the second wave got out of control would have helped. 

What's interesting here is that there's no health advice suggesting that coming out of lockdown early is helpful, so your position is odd to say the least. 

2 hours ago, Archied said:

Ffs ,,, they didn’t and that’s that , deal with now , with the vaccines administered to the numbers already we should be opened up NOW

With a tiny fraction having the second dose? Really? 

I know you just want to declare 'open up', you've done it for a long time on here, but ultimately the best strategy is a staged reopening keeping the rate of new infections either level or dropping while the remainder of the population is vaccinated. Rushing this process will do more harm to lives and livelihoods, just as it has previously. 

[G STAR RAM]

2 minutes ago, BIllyD said:

Well I presumed if you were opening up in a month you must be waiting for the vaccine to take effect ? Maybe I misunderstood, what's happening in a month that makes it justified to lift the lockdowns in your opinion ?

Well if its not effective why are we putting it in the arms of millions of people? I assumed the trials had already been done and conclusive results come back?

In my opinion if we have been told that the vaccine is the silver bullet, then once the vulnerable are vaccinated there can be no justification for not letting the rest of the population make their own decision on what risk they wish to take.

[Archied]

2 minutes ago, Albert said:

If they listened to the advice the UK wouldn't have been in this position, that's been the whole problem. They've played a game of 'pick and choose' with the advice, and didn't heed the lessons of the past with pandemics. Countries in Asia and Oceania haven't succeeded due to some miracle, they succeeded because they implemented that advice. 

Even just following the advice to lockdown back in September before the second wave got out of control would have helped. 

What's interesting here is that there's no health advice suggesting that coming out of lockdown early is helpful, so your position is odd to say the least. 

With a tiny fraction having the second dose? Really? 

I know you just want to declare 'open up', you've done it for a long time on here, but ultimately the best strategy is a staged reopening keeping the rate of new infections either level or dropping while the remainder of the population is vaccinated. Rushing this process will do more harm to lives and livelihoods, just as it has previously. 

Yep , before vaccine and better treatment the deaths and hospitalisation s were a tiny fraction of the people who caught it ( you want to work in fractions) , now getting smaller by the day ,open up now,

as I say even as I 60 year old ( not vaccinated ) I’m not selfish enough to expect , demand people s lives be further crushed and destroyed to cut my chance of catching COVID 

[G STAR RAM]

6 minutes ago, Albert said:

If they listened to the advice the UK wouldn't have been in this position, that's been the whole problem. They've played a game of 'pick and choose' with the advice, and didn't heed the lessons of the past with pandemics. Countries in Asia and Oceania haven't succeeded due to some miracle, they succeeded because they implemented that advice. 

Even just following the advice to lockdown back in September before the second wave got out of control would have helped. 

What's interesting here is that there's no health advice suggesting that coming out of lockdown early is helpful, so your position is odd to say the least. 

No, locking down in September would have kicked the can down the road.

Of course if we did that in the knowledge that the vaccine is the saviour then it would be very strange to now extend lockdowns when all of the vulnerable (accounting for 88% of hospital admissions I think I heard) will have been vaccinated.

Not sure what you find odd about it.

Do you drive a car?

[angieram]

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[Archied]

2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Well if its not effective why are we putting it in the arms of millions of people? I assumed the trials had already been done and conclusive results come back?

In my opinion if we have been told that the vaccine is the silver bullet, then once the vulnerable are vaccinated there can be no justification for not letting the rest of the population make their own decision on what risk they wish to take.

Yep and all the noises are children to be vaccinated, those same children that don’t die or get really ill from COVID , those same children that don’t really spread COVID to any degree ??‍♂️,, my bet is they will be proclaimed the breeding ground for mutations next , it’s getting easier to predict the turns in the road

[G STAR RAM]

12 minutes ago, Albert said:

I know you just want to declare 'open up', you've done it for a long time on here, but ultimately the best strategy is a staged reopening keeping the rate of new infections either level or dropping while the remainder of the population is vaccinated. Rushing this process will do more harm to lives and livelihoods, just as it has previously. 

In the proportion of the population that will not have been vaccinated?

Can you show us the cost/benefit analysis for this please?

[BIllyD]

Just now, G STAR RAM said:

Well if its not effective why are we putting it in the arms of millions of people? I assumed the trials had already been done and conclusive results come back?

In my opinion if we have been told that the vaccine is the silver bullet, then once the vulnerable are vaccinated there can be no justification for not letting the rest of the population make their own decision on what risk they wish to take.

So you think the government should make the decision based on trials ? There hasn't been any trials based on the new variant that I'm aware off, or to see how it impacts the transmission for example ? 

Pretty sure they said an effective vaccine is the silver bullet, until that is proven then I'd say they are right in waiting before putting a roadmap in place. Your opening up of the country I'm guessing is not to wait until the numbers drop, no waiting for the vaccine to give immunity, just once that last in in the group is jabbed thats it, off you go all open up ?

[Archied]

6 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

No, locking down in September would have kicked the can down the road.

Of course if we did that in the knowledge that the vaccine is the saviour then it would be very strange to now extend lockdowns when all of the vulnerable (accounting for 88% of hospital admissions I think I heard) will have been vaccinated.

Not sure what you find odd about it.

Do you drive a car?

Could you imagine if road deaths were counted and openly printed in reports as death from any cause within 28 days of an accident ??‍♂️. Yes that’s the wording on death reports from COVID 

[Archied]

3 minutes ago, BIllyD said:

So you think the government should make the decision based on trials ? There hasn't been any trials based on the new variant that I'm aware off, or to see how it impacts the transmission for example ? 

Pretty sure they said an effective vaccine is the silver bullet, until that is proven then I'd say they are right in waiting before putting a roadmap in place. Your opening up of the country I'm guessing is not to wait until the numbers drop, no waiting for the vaccine to give immunity, just once that last in in the group is jabbed thats it, off you go all open up ?

Yep , EVERYBODY in that group is not going to magically catch it next day , time lags only work one way now too??‍♂️

[G STAR RAM]

Just now, BIllyD said:

So you think the government should make the decision based on trials ? There hasn't been any trials based on the new variant that I'm aware off, or to see how it impacts the transmission for example ? 

Pretty sure they said an effective vaccine is the silver bullet, until that is proven then I'd say they are right in waiting before putting a roadmap in place. Your opening up of the country I'm guessing is not to wait until the numbers drop, no waiting for the vaccine to give immunity, just once that last in in the group is jabbed thats it, off you go all open up ?

Well if they are taking the decision to vaccinate tens of millions of people based on these trials then yes I would. 

Or are you suggesting that every time a new variant arises we have to extend the lockdown even further. 

Not for me.

We've thrown everything at getting vaccines and if they arent effective we are going to have to get used to living with the virus, just like we do with flu.

As someone who is watching my children have their lives cruelly withheld from them and working in a sector that has been decimated, yes I do advocate fully re-opening. 

[BIllyD]

12 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

No, locking down in September would have kicked the can down the road.

Of course if we did that in the knowledge that the vaccine is the saviour then it would be very strange to now extend lockdowns when all of the vulnerable (accounting for 88% of hospital admissions I think I heard) will have been vaccinated.

Not sure what you find odd about it.

Do you drive a car?

Around 2m still not vaccinated, a lot through choice. What about them, they still have the potential to bring our health system crashing down wouldn't you say ?

[Archied]

5 minutes ago, BIllyD said:

So you think the government should make the decision based on trials ? There hasn't been any trials based on the new variant that I'm aware off, or to see how it impacts the transmission for example ? 

Pretty sure they said an effective vaccine is the silver bullet, until that is proven then I'd say they are right in waiting before putting a roadmap in place. Your opening up of the country I'm guessing is not to wait until the numbers drop, no waiting for the vaccine to give immunity, just once that last in in the group is jabbed thats it, off you go all open up ?

Once how about anybody jabbed self isolates for 14 days , job done ,open up

[G STAR RAM]

1 minute ago, BIllyD said:

Around 2m still not vaccinated, a lot through choice. What about them, they still have the potential to bring our health system crashing down wouldn't you say ?

So we don't open up until we have forced all of them 2m to have the vaccination?

[Archied]

2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Well if they are taking the decision to vaccinate tens of millions of people based on these trials then yes I would. 

Or are you suggesting that every time a new variant arises we have to extend the lockdown even further. 

Not for me.

We've thrown everything at getting vaccines and if they arent effective we are going to have to get used to living with the virus, just like we do with flu.

As someone who is watching my children have their lives cruelly withheld from them and working in a sector that has been decimated, yes I do advocate fully re-opening. 

My kids are past school age , my work earnings are ok but I’m right behind you , I don’t want yours and your children’s lives being destroyed a moment longer in the name of reducing my risk of catching covid

[G STAR RAM]

2 minutes ago, BIllyD said:

Around 2m still not vaccinated, a lot through choice. What about them, they still have the potential to bring our health system crashing down wouldn't you say ?

Interesting theory!

Give everyone a weeks notice that everything in the country is closing for 2 weeks.

Only place it would spread then is in the hospitals and we know that probably accounts for about 15% of cases in hospital, oh wait it might be up to 40%.

[G STAR RAM]

Just now, Archied said:

My kids are past school age , my work earnings are ok but I’m right behind you , I don’t want yours and your children’s lives being destroyed a moment longer in the name of reducing my risk of catching covid

I salute you Sir. One of the very few on here capable of considering other people and what the lockdowns are doing to them.

[BIllyD]

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

Well if they are taking the decision to vaccinate tens of millions of people based on these trials then yes I would. 

Or are you suggesting that every time a new variant arises we have to extend the lockdown even further. 

Not for me.

We've thrown everything at getting vaccines and if they arent effective we are going to have to get used to living with the virus, just like we do with flu.

As someone who is watching my children have their lives cruelly withheld from them and working in a sector that has been decimated, yes I do advocate fully re-opening. 

No I'm talking about proving the effectiveness of a vaccine not making decisions based upon the adequacy. You say why listen to the government based upon their previous bad calls and then call upon them to open the country up without any figures to back it up. Something that you have been very vocal about, if your basis on opening the country back up is solely based upon protecting your own family, whilst it's an admirable one, thankfully the government take a wider longer look at what is required.

Ive not advocated extending the lockdown, that seems to be something you and others on here seem to throw around when someone doesn't agree with you, not quite sure why but if just thought I'd clear that up again.