Coronavirus

[Eddie]

It would be interesting to know whether the current upsurge in cases is being primarily driven by university students or within the general population.

[Andicis]

12 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

Including the amount of positive cases that lead to absolutely nothing (not even a sniff) or the amount of cases coming from Universities where no one is sick.

This is the thing, a huge number of cases are in University halls where a.) nobody is ill and b.)they're not allowed out due to the fact it's so prevalent. In my brother's uni halls (in Nottingham)pretty much the whole place has it, like 500 of them. But none of them are very ill. In an area with the virus just in students, yes there is positive cases, but they don't amount to much if they stay there. 

[Stive Pesley]

1 hour ago, Van Wolfie said:

Including the government, presumably?.

I agree, BTW.

Yeah - we should be honest and give them credit for the complexities of the challenge that they face. I dont envy them.

However, It's not so much about knowing the right thing to do, and more about them making mistake after mistake in the responses they have chosen

 

 

[Stive Pesley]

1 hour ago, Van Wolfie said:

Lumping schools in with Universities just undermines the whole argument, though. In my experience, schools have been very good at managing kids' contact with each other.

The same can't be said for universities & students.

A difficult comparison to make as Universities are largely the 18-22 age group - whereas schools are largely 5-18

I think Primary Schools have done a decent job, probably because the age group is more compliant to instruction

I don't think Secondary Schools stand much chance of managing the older kids contact

[Ghost of Clough]

6 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

Not really, as I quoted I’ll post meaningful data when I get it. I do find it extremely worrying that yourself @GboroRam@Eddie are loving the fact numbers are going up, how very very odd.
I can also counter argue and include data that backs up my original argument that we should lift restrictions ASAP before it’s too late for our Country to economically recover. Including the amount of positive cases that lead to absolutely nothing (not even a sniff) or the amount of cases coming from Universities where no one is sick.  Again I’ll state that I think it’s incredibly selfish of the few potentially effected to destroy the futures and life’s of the mass population that aren’t. 

Monitoring cases is a useful indicator of the general trend. The data shows the virus is still spreading at an increasing rate. 

 

Hospital admissions due to covid have increased 7-fold since the end of August to the start of October (still increasing)
Hospital beds occupied by confirmed covid patients increased 5-fold from the start of Sept to the start of October (still increasing).

In terms of deaths, we're back to where we were in the middle of March.

 

[Gone]

4 minutes ago, Albert said:

lso, I'd ask why you think your future is worth more than people who are at a higher risk of death? Is that risk enough to justify your future as being worth more inherently? 

If you actually read anything, yes I think that my family, friends, colleagues future is more important to me than someone I don’t know , absolutely I do. I see the closest to me including elderly parents life’s being effected so badly by the restrictions in place with very little risk to them of effects of Covid. I see my children’s education effected, their futures effected and their social and mental well-being effected. So yes I deem that more important, I am not interested if you think that’s bad or immoral because those people I mention and thier well-being come 1st to me above anybody else. I’m guessing unless you truley are mother Teresa you think the same hence take the stance you take. 
Oh why am I engaging with you again ?

[Gone]

1 minute ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Monitoring cases is a useful indicator of the general trend. The data shows the virus is still spreading at an increasing rate. 

 

Hospital admissions due to covid have increased 7-fold since the end of August to the start of October (still increasing)
Hospital beds occupied by confirmed covid patients increased 5-fold from the start of Sept to the start of October (still increasing).

In terms of deaths, we're back to where we were in the middle of March.

 

What do the pillars mean?
Do you have data on the Hospitalisation and Deaths? 

[Ghost of Clough]

3 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

What do the pillars mean?

Pillars
1 = swab testing in Public Health England (PHE) labs and NHS hospitals for those with a clinical need, and health and care workers
2 = swab testing for the wider population, as set out in government guidance

3 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

Do you have data on the Hospitalisation and Deaths? 

Hospital beds

Deaths

[Gone]

19 minutes ago, Albert said:

If you actually read my posts you'd see that I'm actually extremely concerned that they're going up, and that this is visible on all metrics. It's also concerning that you've changed your tune from 'I'll just post the graphs' to 'I'll post meaningful data when I get it'. It's pretty clear to most what you're actually saying by that though. 

As noted before, your entire point is based on fringe science at best, pseudoscience at worst. As discussed, it's the disease, no lockdowns, destroying economies, as shown by countries that aren't using lockdowns also being impacted. You are, in essence, arguing a horrifically simplified view, and ignoring that 'vulnerable' in the sense of this virus is about half the population of the UK. If the aim is to 'lockdown the vulnerable', that would ultimately cost more than just locking down properly in the first place, and getting to the position that other countries have reached where they can live largely normally. 

Also, I'd ask why you think your future is worth more than people who are at a higher risk of death? Is that risk enough to justify your future as being worth more inherently? 

This ones just for you @Albert

 

[Gone]

1 minute ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Pillars
1 = swab testing in Public Health England (PHE) labs and NHS hospitals for those with a clinical need, and health and care workers
2 = swab testing for the wider population, as set out in government guidance

Hospital beds

Deaths

Thank you Sir 

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Monitoring cases is a useful indicator of the general trend. The data shows the virus is still spreading at an increasing rate. 

 

Hospital admissions due to covid have increased 7-fold since the end of August to the start of October (still increasing)
Hospital beds occupied by confirmed covid patients increased 5-fold from the start of Sept to the start of October (still increasing).

In terms of deaths, we're back to where we were in the middle of March.

 

What would hospital admissions normally be showing at this time of year as we head towards winter and the flu season?

How are flu deaths looking in comparison to previous years?

Should we not expect hospital admissions to be going up after they were pretty much closed to everything except Covid for 4 months?

The graphs that people continue to present are completely meaningless without context and supporting background information.

[Eddie]

14 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

Not really, as I quoted I’ll post meaningful data when I get it. I do find it extremely worrying that yourself @GboroRam@Eddie are loving the fact numbers are going up, how very very odd.
I can also counter argue and include data that backs up my original argument that we should lift restrictions ASAP before it’s too late for our Country to economically recover. Including the amount of positive cases that lead to absolutely nothing (not even a sniff) or the amount of cases coming from Universities where no one is sick.  Again I’ll state that I think it’s incredibly selfish of the few potentially effected to destroy the futures and life’s of the mass population that aren’t. 

I absolutely hate it, and it makes me extremely angry that people might think that, because I disagree with someone vehemently, that it is because I desire a particular result just to prove them wrong. 

Once more, we are seeing reports that the extremely vulnerable are likely to be forced to shelter in place once more, possibly until next March or April. I had 6 months of that already - complete lockdown, food parcels being delivered to my door for the first few weeks because it was impossible at the start to arrange deliveries - not nice.

You have consistently advocated for half-measures - or no measures at all - but I'm being incredibly selfish.

[Eddie]

23 minutes ago, Andicis said:

This is the thing, a huge number of cases are in University halls where a.) nobody is ill and b.)they're not allowed out due to the fact it's so prevalent. In my brother's uni halls (in Nottingham)pretty much the whole place has it, like 500 of them. But none of them are very ill. In an area with the virus just in students, yes there is positive cases, but they don't amount to much if they stay there. 

Why are hospital cases and deaths now surging if 'nobody is getting sick'?

[Ghost of Clough]

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

What would hospital admissions normally be showing at this time of year as we head towards winter and the flu season?

Relevance to being admitted to hospital due to covid?

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

How are flu deaths looking in comparison to previous years?

Not sure where you can find this data

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

Should we not expect hospital admissions to be going up after they were pretty much closed to everything except Covid for 4 months?

Relevance to being admitted to hospital due to covid?

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

The graphs that people continue to present are completely meaningless without context and supporting background information.

The graphs show in increase in cases, hospitalisations and deaths. I'm not sure how you can argue against that.

[Gone]

8 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I absolutely hate it, and it makes me extremely angry that people might think that, because I disagree with someone vehemently, that it is because I desire a particular result just to prove them wrong. 

Once more, we are seeing reports that the extremely vulnerable are likely to be forced to shelter in place once more, possibly until next March or April. I had 6 months of that already - complete lockdown, food parcels being delivered to my door for the first few weeks because it was impossible at the start to arrange deliveries - not nice.

You have consistently advocated for half-measures - or no measures at all - but I'm being incredibly selfish.

Ah you reply, thank you Sir 

[ariotofmyown]

6 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I absolutely hate it, and it makes me extremely angry that people might think that, because I disagree with someone vehemently, that it is because I desire a particular result just to prove them wrong. 

Once more, we are seeing reports that the extremely vulnerable are likely to be forced to shelter in place once more, possibly until next March or April. I had 6 months of that already - complete lockdown, food parcels being delivered to my door for the first few weeks because it was impossible at the start to arrange deliveries - not nice.

You have consistently advocated for half-measures - or no measures at all - but I'm being incredibly selfish.

This retort was always going to happen if the numbers did end up looking bad.

1) post repeatedly that there is nothing to worry about and ignore any posters who suggest it's too early to tell

2) if it turns out you were wrong, claim the posters who point this out are loving the fact they were right. As if they would gladly see people getting ill provided their warnings proved to be correct.

 

[maxjam]

2 tweets that sum up the situation for me...

 

We can't afford to keep locking down, the economic consequences will be devastating.

On the flip side if we open up the virus flares up again.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[Andicis]

19 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Why are hospital cases and deaths now surging if 'nobody is getting sick'?

We're talking about different things. The cases in the University are not leading to ''surges'', if it gets out into the public, that's when it's a problem. But when it's one isolated Uni halls with 500 cases, it's not a huge problem is it? Shouldn't get community spread from that. 

[Gone]

15 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

1) post repeatedly that there is nothing to worry about and ignore any posters who suggest it's too early to tell

I will continue to post this point 

[ariotofmyown]

3 minutes ago, maxjam said:

2 tweets that sum up the situation for me...

 

We can't afford to keep locking down, the economic consequences will be devastating.

On the flip side if we open up the virus flares up again.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Agreed, although it doesn't feel that we have a plan though since the lockdown proper ended.

I'm sure things would have worked much better with a functioning app, working trace and trace system, clear rules from the start (as opposed to guidelines), testing at airports and ports etc etc.

We were told in May that the App was key to relaxing lockdown. But we opened up regardless and got the App in September.

How different things might have been if the App had been released whilst we were all in lockdown, clapping together, everyone engaged and prepared to do what was necessary.

Although sacking Cummings immediately might have helped with some social cohesion.