Coronavirus

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, rammieib said:

Lots of positive tests at the moment in universities. Do we not believe these universities were not ripe with positive tests back in Februsry and March then? It must have soared through the universities at the beginning of this year when there was a different year group living in the halls. No one would have even tested as basically students seem to be asymptomatic or mild symptoms.

No evidence to back my viewpoint up, just A) a suspicion and B) The fact Gov sources have said there were 100k plus cases a day back in March/April.

1. Young people go to pub / party / rave

2. Alcohol

3. "You're my best mate, you are"

4. Young people go to university

5. ???

[Albert]

5 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54441133

 

Any source on the actual numbers, seems they've just said it as an offhand remark, but it's not what the NHS official releases show. 

[Gone]

9 hours ago, Albert said:

Now, personally, I don't put a line through people's names when they turn 50

We’re pretty much doing that to anyone under 50, the futures ducked for them 

[GboroRam]

42 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

We’re pretty much doing that to anyone under 50, the futures ducked for them 

Are we really though? Is lockdown expected to cause a death rate of 5% of young people in the same way that coronavirus does for 5% of older people? 

[Gone]

18 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Are we really though? Is lockdown expected to cause a death rate of 5% of young people in the same way that coronavirus does for 5% of older people? 

Yeah of course we are, look at the education already lost and continuing to be lost, look at the experiences the young are missing out on, look at the amount of job losses being announced, the amount of companies going to the wall. If you think the death rate is the only way to calculate or compare the impact of this then you seriously need to look in the mirror. In fact I’m not someone that gets angry but your response to this I find infuriating and frankly bizarre. 

[G STAR RAM]

3 hours ago, Albert said:

Any source on the actual numbers, seems they've just said it as an offhand remark, but it's not what the NHS official releases show. 

Youd have to take that up with the BBC.

[Albert]

11 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

Yeah of course we are, look at the education already lost and continuing to be lost, look at the experiences the young are missing out on, look at the amount of job losses being announced, the amount of companies going to the wall. If you think the death rate is the only way to calculate or compare the impact of this then you seriously need to look in the mirror. In fact I’m not someone that gets angry but your response to this I find infuriating and frankly bizarre. 

If this is the case, then the UK better go down the New Zealand line of thinking fast. As demonstrated, it's not only sustainable long term, but it does indeed allow people to have those experiences back. The same goes for places like Australia, Taiwan, etc. 

[Albert]

Just now, G STAR RAM said:

Youd have to take that up with the BBC.

Nah, I'm happy to accept that their standards aren't what they were and just move on. The NHS release the data, and that's enough to get a good picture of it all. No doubt there's likely been a season where there was a point they reached 1000 in a day, but it's just not standard by any means. 

This all said, the fact that this is the peak for an endemic disease, spread through a full population, and Covid can do worse without being through the whole population, is quite frankly terrifying. 

[Brammie Steve]

19 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

Yeah of course we are, look at the education already lost and continuing to be lost, look at the experiences the young are missing out on, look at the amount of job losses being announced, the amount of companies going to the wall. If you think the death rate is the only way to calculate or compare the impact of this then you seriously need to look in the mirror. In fact I’m not someone that gets angry but your response to this I find infuriating and frankly bizarre. 

Speaking as a socially isolated 70 year old I have felt sorry for youngsters for years. There were not the opportunities we 'baby boomers' had. Affordable housing, good job opportunities at a time when a degree was needed to wash dishes etc.

Now covid19 has pulled the rug out from under so may young career plans I can honestly say I don't think I'd swap places but I wish everyone a safe future!

[G STAR RAM]

16 minutes ago, Albert said:

Nah, I'm happy to accept that their standards aren't what they were and just move on. The NHS release the data, and that's enough to get a good picture of it all. No doubt there's likely been a season where there was a point they reached 1000 in a day, but it's just not standard by any means. 

This all said, the fact that this is the peak for an endemic disease, spread through a full population, and Covid can do worse without being through the whole population, is quite frankly terrifying. 

I'm not terrified and think I'm yet to speak to anyone that is.

 

[Albert]

3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I'm not terrified and think I'm yet to speak to anyone that is.

 

That's very concerning. It's good that the government has more concern for the safety of the population than you do. 

[G STAR RAM]

30 minutes ago, Albert said:

That's very concerning. It's good that the government has more concern for the safety of the population than you do. 

I shouldn't concern yourself too much that people want to get on with their lives and try and ensure their children dont spend theirs paying for completely ridiculous amf over the top measures, designed to protect a very very small minority of people.

I'd also add that there is a large population out there that are, and will continue to be, unaffected by this virus. I find it more concerning that the Government seem to be completely disregarding them in their decision making.

[Ghost of Clough]

35 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

Yeah of course we are, look at the education already lost and continuing to be lost, look at the experiences the young are missing out on, look at the amount of job losses being announced, the amount of companies going to the wall. If you think the death rate is the only way to calculate or compare the impact of this then you seriously need to look in the mirror. In fact I’m not someone that gets angry but your response to this I find infuriating and frankly bizarre. 

Education lost? Maybe 'stalled' at worst. In fact, with more actually attending [online] lectures, uni students may actually perform better. They may lose fewer brain cells as a result of excessive drinking too.
Experiences missed out on? Drinking and sleeping in all day can be done next year.

You might find it "infuriating and frankly bizarre" that someone appears to value lives over jobs, but I'm equally 'infuriated' that you want to stop me from seeing my parents and grandparents for an unspecified amount of time.

[Ghost of Clough]

32 minutes ago, Albert said:

That's very concerning. It's good that the government has more concern for the safety of the population than you do. 

Terrified is too strong a word. Worried or concerned would have been more suitable. Most people on this forum fall inside the 0.020% fatality rate bracket - I think that's way too low to be terrified over.

[maxjam]

41 minutes ago, Albert said:

That's very concerning. It's good that the government has more concern for the safety of the population than you do. 

I appreciate that you personally have a hard stance on lockdowns but not everyone feels the same. 

Furthermore the longer Governments restrict the actions of their populous the more resentment builds.  Even in the shining light that you keep referring to, Australia, resentment has been steadily rising;

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8610263/Melbourne-lockdown-worst-violation-Australias-civil-liberties.html

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/sep/16/hundreds-seek-damages-as-victoria-faces-multiple-class-action-lawsuits-over-melbournes-covid-lockdown

I watched a bit of Sky News Australia as well (geez, have they gone down the Fox News route lol), but if you cut through the hyperbole, increasingly people are becoming frustrated with the lockdown.

[Albert]

8 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Terrified is too strong a word. Worried or concerned would have been more suitable. Most people on this forum fall inside the 0.020% fatality rate bracket - I think that's way too low to be terrified over.

It's not death that's terrifying, but the damage that the disease can still do to the country long term. Failure to control it now would put the UK in the same basket as other countries that have failed to get it under control, and that will put back the return to normality, whatever form that happens to come in. 

Yeah, you're probably not going to die, maybe you'll end up with permanent damage to some organs, but it's the economic costs, which aren't being fixed by just 'opening up' that should worry you. 

17 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I shouldn't concern yourself too much that people want to get on with their lives and try and ensure their children dont spend theirs paying for completely ridiculous amf over the top measures, designed to protect a very very small minority of people.

I'd also add that there is a large population out there that are, and will continue to be, unaffected by this virus. I find it more concerning that the Government seem to be completely disregarding them in their decision making.

If you truly believe this then you should also believe that the UK must get this disease under control as quickly as possible. The countries getting the least economic damage are the countries achieving exactly that. It's a pipe dream to think 'opening up' isn't going to just be ruining your children's future hopes for some short term laughs. 

Nobody is 'unaffected' if the virus spreads uncontrolled, as the secondary impacts on society are massive, which is the whole problem. The issue is that you get people who don't think that far ahead thinking it's the controls, not the disease, being the root cause of these issues. Politically, opening up is popular with some, and it's an easy line to play over and over, so people lap it up. 

Again, I'm lucky I chose to stay in Australia. 

[Albert]

4 minutes ago, maxjam said:

I appreciate that you personally have a hard stance on lockdowns but not everyone feels the same. 

Furthermore the longer Governments restrict the actions of their populous the more resentment builds.  Even in the shining light that you keep referring to, Australia, resentment has been steadily rising;

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8610263/Melbourne-lockdown-worst-violation-Australias-civil-liberties.html

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/sep/16/hundreds-seek-damages-as-victoria-faces-multiple-class-action-lawsuits-over-melbournes-covid-lockdown

I watched a bit of Sky News Australia as well (geez, have they gone down the Fox News route lol), but if you cut through the hyperbole, increasingly people are becoming frustrated with the lockdown.

Sky News is a bizarre channel to watch in Australia. My favourite is contrasting their stance on Victoria before and after they brought in the second lockdown. Before, it was all about how they couldn't do what was needed. After, they never should have done it. They're just stirrers, plain and simple. 

The IPA, which is cited in the dailymail article (lol), are well known loonies down here too. 

There will always be some shortsighted people who oppose lockdowns. Victoria is, however, a good example of how the UK could go about saving themselves. They had things just about under control, opened up too easy, and got a second wave as a result. They've since mostly controlled the situation again, and are currently in the process of ending that lockdown as the cases continue to drop towards zero. 

As to public opinion, it's only been fairly recent (last week or so) that opinions have started to turn against it, as some are getting impatient given that the cases are indeed dropping. This isn't surprising, and they're currently getting their wishes. 

As something for future reference though, don't bother with Sky News for any state under a Labor government, eg Victoria, Western Australia, etc. Sky basically act as the propaganda arm of the Liberals here in Australia, they will say literally anything to criticise them. Western Australia cop a lot of heat from them too, despite their measures being extremely popular over there, notably their border closures. South Australia's lockdowns and approach were pretty universally praised by Sky News though, including the border closures, thanks to them being under a Liberal government. 

[Stive Pesley]

8 hours ago, rammieib said:

Lots of positive tests at the moment in universities. Do we not believe these universities were not ripe with positive tests back in Februsry and March then? It must have soared through the universities at the beginning of this year when there was a different year group living in the halls. No one would have even tested as basically students seem to be asymptomatic or mild symptoms.

No evidence to back my viewpoint up, just A) a suspicion and B) The fact Gov sources have said there were 100k plus cases a day back in March/April.

I think there were almost certainly a lot of undiagnosed tests in the universities back then, but almost certainly less. You have to consider that Feb/March is heading into exams/finals season, and money tends to be tighter, so the student social life naturally quietens down around then. Compared to now - not only Freshers season, but also on the back of them all being locked down for months, with uncertainty over results and the future in general. They're partying harder than ever

And on the subjects of testing/Nottingham - my relatives in Nottingham are saying that the test website has been crashing since Monday and no one can even book a test

[Albert]

I should probably add a side note about the IPA, and what they stand for, in case anyone is curious. They are a think tank that brands themselves as being about free and independent markets. What this has meant, in practice, is climate change denial, tobacco industry advocacy and opposition to racial discrimination laws. Their 'research' is virtually universally panned in the academic community in Australia due to them starting with ideological positions, and fitting their research to match. 

[G STAR RAM]

54 minutes ago, Albert said:

If you truly believe this then you should also believe that the UK must get this disease under control as quickly as possible. The countries getting the least economic damage are the countries achieving exactly that. It's a pipe dream to think 'opening up' isn't going to just be ruining your children's future hopes for some short term laughs. 

Nobody is 'unaffected' if the virus spreads uncontrolled, as the secondary impacts on society are massive, which is the whole problem. The issue is that you get people who don't think that far ahead thinking it's the controls, not the disease, being the root cause of these issues. Politically, opening up is popular with some, and it's an easy line to play over and over, so people lap it up.

And if you think you can correctly predict the future when we are in the middle of a pandemic then you clearly should be advising world Governments rather than wasting your time on a football forum.

I see that 2,600 scientists and 3,300 medical have now signed a letter advocating the herd immunity strategy.

How would this affect Australia? Would its economy continue to do as well as you are leading us to believe it is doing?